Pingouin Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 I've noticed something, when I plug off the connector with a yellow wire, the display comes on, for a short second, it is connected to the power button and to the maiboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 13 minutes ago, Pingouin said: Yes I've noticed those, but I'm preety sure that they were cut on purpose and not broken (the wire is cut too clean..) Here is the red cut wire, but I've looked closly there isn't anything it might have been wired to... I'm preety sure it's the BMS that doesn't receive power by the batteries, but I can't figure out why.. That looks like (pure guess) it could be the positive wire running between the packs (is this a F260?). Pretty sure it should not be cut, look at the both batteries if the other end is visible. Remember that the packs are still LIVE! There's no off-switch... EDIT: oh wait, that's the mainboard end. The red-wire could also be a BMS-input line that isn't used anymore on newer mainboards... In that case it serves no purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 There is a red short wire at the control board connector near C19 which looks like it's broken and touching the heat sink? Is that another broken wire or just the photo? Can you post up some more photos? I hope the name Firewheel isn't related to the number of loose and broken wires inside potentially leading to a EUC fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 It's a F528 I'lve closly looked and this red wire doesn't go anywhere Didn't change a thing, soldering them back doesn't seem to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 15 minutes ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: There is a red short wire at the control board connector near C19 which looks like it's broken and touching the heat sink? Is that another broken wire or just the photo? Can you oost up some more photos? I hope the name Firewheel isn't related to the number of loose and broken wires inside potentially leading to a EUC fire. It could be one of the calibration wires, the start from the top left (or bottom right, depending which way around you look) corner of the mainboard. Here's some wiring diagrams I made last year, although not sure if they're correct with newer mainboards: 13 minutes ago, Pingouin said: It's a F528 I'lve closly looked and this red wire doesn't go anywhere Didn't change a thing, soldering them back doesn't seem to work Did you try to measure voltages from them (cut wire vs. ground)? The balancing wires need to go "right way around" for the balancing to work, otherwise it might even damage something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Did you carefully check to see which white wire matches up to which short wire end? Sorry have to ask as mixing them up could be a problem. What's that short loose wire by the control board connector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 The cut red wire is probably the BMS signal wire that the battery packs used to have. At some point they decided to simply tie the BMS signal wire to ground at the control board, so that wire is never used. My batteries have yellow balance wires, it seems like the Chinese just use whatever wire they have lying around. If those two white wires are balance lines they should definitely not be cut like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 I don't have anything to measure, but I've checked which one goes where (with the writing on the side it was easy to recognise who goes where) I've tested something else, if the main connector that goes from the batteries to the mainboeard is not connected, then even if the charges is pluged, the unicycle doesn't start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 Here is a video of the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 34 minutes ago, Pingouin said: Here is a video of the issue Again just guessing, but if the wheel starts after plugging in the charger, the typical reason is that some BMS protection has triggered & latched (they usually release once the charger is connected). It could be a fault in the BMS itself, or, as the wheel shuts off after a small while, a faulty cell? But yeah, I'm not an expert on these. If you can and know how, try to measure the voltage coming out from the battery (from the connector that goes to the mainboard). Just remember to check that your multimeter wires are plugged in the correct holes (voltage measuring, not current!), so you won't repeat my experience: Pretty sparks! And a melted metal probe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 Thanks, I don't have a multimeter however, but I did a mistake when trying to test the batteries with my drone charger, it sparked pretty bad, I guess there still is power in there, my guess is that the BMS is faulty.... I bought this used firewheel to train and get used to unicycle, I bought a gotway as a replacement because it has better customer support in my country, though I'll try to get this issue sorted out with F528 with your help guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Have you tried charging up the wheel? When the charger is plugged in, does the LED show red for charging, or is it green for fully charged? Can you post a few more photos up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 Yes I've fully charged it. Yes it shows red when charging, although now that it is charged it shows green. What kind of photos ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Maybe some well lighted general ones and closeups to see if we can make sense of where the charging port wires look like, where wiring leads to, how the battery wires are hooked up, etc. It's difficult to tell how things are wired up by just looking at specific areas unless you have the wheel in front of you. Maybe a few more photos might offer some clues and suggestions from others who might be more familiar with the components in your Firewheel. Just revisiting the short red wire ending near C19 at the control board connector, is it just lying there loose? It's strange to have an unused wire just sitting there, but if it's unused like @dmethvin mentioned it could be nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 1 hour ago, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said: Just revisiting the short red wire ending near C19 at the control board connector, is it just lying there loose? It's strange to have an unused wire just sitting there, but if it's unused like @dmethvin mentioned it could be nothing. If it's like my board it's soldered to a ground point on the underside of the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Assuming you got the balance lines straightened out by soldering them back, maybe the cells controlled by those lines have lower voltage now? Maybe that would be fixed by leaving the charger plugged in for a few hours? If you just want to try and salvage things you could shunt the BMS and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 Hi, If I try to charge the F528, the light shows green, it is fully charged now and I can't discharge it (my drone charges doesn't take more than 48V and the F528 charger doesn't have this function). I'm away until Friday, I have my F528 away for a few days, I've got my gotwat mcm4 with me, I'll give you new pics when it comes back. How muchs does a BMS cost ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 3 hours ago, Pingouin said: Hi, If I try to charge the F528, the light shows green, it is fully charged now and I can't discharge it (my drone charges doesn't take more than 48V and the F528 charger doesn't have this function). I'm away until Friday, I have my F528 away for a few days, I've got my gotwat mcm4 with me, I'll give you new pics when it comes back. How muchs does a BMS cost ? Somewhere around 20-40€ a piece I think, plus maybe some shipping costs, depends on the kind of BMS, where you order it from etc. 1RadWerkstatt can sell you the right BMS, but you need to find someone to exchange it (unless you can do it yourself). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 I want to be sure it's the BMS...I'm not 100% sure.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 I'm pretty sure it's not the BMS, but the maiboard..or is it the same ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 33 minutes ago, Pingouin said: I'm pretty sure it's not the BMS, but the maiboard..or is it the same ? No, it's not the same thing. If you get a multimeter, or borrow one, or whatever, you could try to measure the output voltage from the battery after the power dies. If the battery is not giving out voltage, it's pretty surely something to do with the battery (either BMS or cells). If the battery is still giving out a healthy voltage (say, 55-68V), then it's probably the mainboard. At least 1RadWerkstatt sells those too, I bought one from them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 I searched for the BMS in the batteries, I haven't found anything, no bumps... What is the cost for a mainboard ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 11 minutes ago, Pingouin said: I searched for the BMS in the batteries, I haven't found anything, no bumps... Firewheel batteries have only one BMS, it's in one of those packs. They use pretty "exotic" configuration of 4 * 4S4P in series, whereas most others use something like 2 * 16S2P in parallel for 4-pack builds. 11 minutes ago, Pingouin said: What is the cost for a mainboard ? Mail them and ask, I've understood that their pricing changes somewhat over time: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmethvin Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 2 hours ago, Pingouin said: I'm pretty sure it's not the BMS, but the maiboard..or is it the same ? Based on the symptoms and the behavior you have, it really seems like it would be a BMS or battery cell issue to me. Especially since you had two broken balance wires. It is so hard to diagnose without being there though. What makes you think it's the mainboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 I'm not sure, but when I plug/unplug the batteries to the mainboard, if I had just pluged the charger before, it sparks, then I wait until it shuts down, and if I try to plug it again, there are no sparks....maybe it's the BMS like you said. Isn't there a way to repair a faulty BMS myself ? As for the broken balance wires, I'm still convinced they were cut on purpose although I'm not sure because there are so much wires I can't figure out who goes where (for the balance wires) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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