Beginner: Falcon vs T4

[EUC-EDC]

I'm stuck between these two as a starter wheel and need some help. The t4 pro is a good deal, but I feel I would need to get some bumpers and pads, putting it closer to the price of the falcon anyway. Falcon, smaller wheel and already seems to have decent protection, but would also need some pads. Seems to also have better water protection, so that's a plus.

Any opinions appreciated as I've heard some say the Falcon is overpriced and others say that it has the edge over a t4 for a beginner wheel.M ost of the time people say go for the t4 because of the deal, but after upgrades, I feel it'll be a similar cost.

I myself see two possible scenarios, I could "outgrow" the falcon, or desire something larger and then in a year or so spend a few thousand dollars. Or possibly the t4 would work better for me in the long run and I wouldn't feel the need, since I can upgrade the suspension and throw a knobby tire on and hit trails, as this is where I see the progression taking me for more fun than the bike path.

I guess I just need a second opinion, is it too close to call?

Ty anyone

[meepmeepmayer]

Wow this is a hard choice.

The Falcon is really nice, and will be very fun and zippy to ride. The perfect behavior for a learning wheel and for getting into EUCs. But the battery is small. And I think eventually you will outgrow it - either in a year or in a few weeks, hard to say.

The T4 is the one with a decent battery size (twice as big as the Falcon) if you want to go on some longer tours. But everything else is so much nicer on the Falcon.

Sorry if this doesn't help. I couldn't tell how I would choose in your situation. Goddamn nice wheel vs. battery size/range that you might not want to miss.

Do you eye longer tours? Any ideas about speed? The T4 is certainly the more general-purpose wheel among the two. I don't think the Falcon would work as your only wheel, unless you really don't care about longer tours.

[EUC-EDC]

I'm guessing initially the falcon speed would be what i'm comfortable with for a while, but yeah with the range it's tough, it would probably be good for taking to trails and going around where I live, but if I felt the want to go farther ever it would be a bummer and I would need to upgrade. I dk if the t4 max will have any better waterproofing than the pro, or just something that would still need some tape/silicone for better protection. So far falcon is more blatantly advertised for water protection.

[OldFartRides]

Bike paths and riding in rain/ wet are way over rated. My 2c.

[Funky]

Choose the one you really want..

Which speed is better for you? At what speed would you want to travel mainly?

Weight? Do you need to carry the wheel? Like flight of stairs. Many small lift over something?

Are buying it just for fun? Or for daily commute like thing?

At the end of the day - You will be ridding said wheel. Not us.. Only you can choose which one will be overall better wheel.

Also where will you be riding? Mainly sidewalks or streets? Bigger tire size is always better at right-out speed travel. For tricks and goofing around smaller is better.

Outgrow in what? Like wanting more range, speed?

 

I personally don't need speed and range. Weight is most important thing to me, so i would take Falcon. (I'm also thinking about buying it, at some point in time maybe.) I have been riding for 3 years and i don't need anything really that faster. 35mph would be welcomed, but 30mph is good enough. My first and only wheel also goes 30mph. Have i outgrown that speed? I think i did that in first year or so. But as i'm riding on sidewalks - i don't really need anything faster. I'm mostly going ~18mph anyways, as i don't gear up on my daily commutes. If i wanted to ride 60mph or more - i would have bough much bigger/faster wheel for my first wheel. I knew at which speeds i wanted to travel - and i'm happy even 3 years latter.

Edited July 24 by Funky

[on one]

If I could only choose one of the two, either T4 or Falcon, then I would choose T4 for learning because it's a 16" that would be oh so much more forgiving for learning. I wouldn't choose either one for a learner though, I'd choose the Inmotion V8 because it's way more cheaper and it's tried and true, and it might just be the only wheel you ever want or need.

But if you like it, then you will still have 1000$ bucks in your bank account to buy a way better wheel in your future.

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, on one said:

I wouldn't choose either one for a learner though, I'd choose the Inmotion V8 because it's way more cheaper and it's tried and true, and it might just be the only wheel you ever want or need.

I must strongly disagree with the V8!

The V8 is a dangerous wheel in my opinion. It's just good enough so it's not obviously flawed or weak or slow, but it's also meek enough so that people might think this is all EUCs have to offer. Modern/performance wheels are way better and more fun, and it would be sad if someone thinks a V8 (basically from 2016!!) is all one needs. I still remember going for a ride with a V8 (in 2017) and thinking I wouldn't be into EUCs if this was my initial experience instead of my (now old ass but still way more powerful) ACM back then.

OP's instinct for Falcon as the learner option is a great one. Modern, powerful, nice. I'd rather buy a Falcon and sell it later than keep a V8 if going by the learner route.

[Mono]

FTR, the V8 is not even in production anymore and its successor V8F has by now another successor, the V8F EVO with 848Wh 584Wh battery and stronger axle. I bought one last year. It's a pretty awesome wheel and I don't know a better wheel on the market for my intents and purposes.

For reference, I have been riding wheels of the V8-series for more than 1500 hours over the last 7+ years.

Edited July 24 by Mono

[EUC-EDC]

3 hours ago, OldFartRides said:

Bike paths and riding in rain/ wet are way over rated. My 2c.

I was thinking if I wanted to mess around in winter with light snow

[Funky]

5 minutes ago, Krozin said:

I was thinking if I wanted to mess around in winter with light snow

If you are scared of getting wheel wet - Falcon.

I'm riding whole year round with my non-rated wheel without any problems. Even very deep snow.. Sometimes it's so deep that you have to step down and walk little bit.. (Daily commuting to/from job.)

I'm also looking for water resistance in my new wheel.. As in fall i often ride in very heavy rain storms.

[meepmeepmayer]

Don't be too worried about "rain". The T4 will easily be good enough to ride in light rain for as short while. Snow doesn't even register as a wet condition.

[on one]

I meant V8x (where x=any of the variants such as "S" "F" "EVO" (I haven't heard of that one yet))

I saw a V8F for a measly

 

799 USD which is a lot of wheel for that low introductory to sport price!

I can only give personal experience on the matter at hand. I learned on a 14" KS14D with smallish dinky little pedals. And I never truly learned to ride it properly until after I learned the Z10. Then when I got back on my KS14D, after I made some pedals that were like 13" long, I was totally blown away about how fun and light and fantastic the ride was. I'm nearly 6' 3" and 245 lbs and riding my 14D is truly a pleasure to ride after learning properly on an 18" wheel that was the appropriate size for me.

Experience that @Krozin could benefit from :-? The most important thing is to just get a wheel that you're excited about and start learning. The first ride is usually not a big bang.

[Funky]

11 minutes ago, on one said:

I meant V8x (where x=any of the variants such as "S" "F" "EVO" (I haven't heard of that one yet))

I saw a V8F for a measly

 

799 USD which is a lot of wheel for that low introductory to sport price!

I can only give personal experience on the matter at hand. I learned on a 14" KS14D with smallish dinky little pedals. And I never truly learned to ride it properly until after I learned the Z10. Then when I got back on my KS14D, after I made some pedals that were like 13" long, I was totally blown away about how fun and light and fantastic the ride was. I'm nearly 6' 3" and 245 lbs and riding my 14D is truly a pleasure to ride after learning properly on an 18" wheel that was the appropriate size for me.

Experience that @Krozin could benefit from :-? The most important thing is to just get a wheel that you're excited about and start learning. The first ride is usually not a big bang.

He will want new wheel in month time.. Falcon/T4 is actually usable and fast enough.

Where V8 is more like sidewalk slow space ride.

Buying wheel just for learning is stupid. As it isn't that hard. (And yes when i started out i was pissed as hell - i even said fuck that shit i don't need euc. It's dumb.) And i learned to free-mount first, before even ridding once. As i thought one needs learn first how to step on/off, before attempting to ride..

Edited July 24 by Funky

[on one]

I value your experience, @Funky , especially

18 minutes ago, Funky said:

And i learned to free-mount first, before even ridding once.

which is priceless.

[Funky]

6 minutes ago, on one said:

I value your experience, @Funky , especially

which is priceless.

Looking back, if i have ridden first - i probably would have ridden already in first day. Not 4 days latter.. My issue was not leaning forwards enough. I stepped on pedals with my both feet and stepped off after 2-3 seconds, as i lost balance. If i had leaned forwards as i did 4th day, when i said fuck it and did superman lean - that got me going right away... Riding was VERY easy.

Edited July 24 by Funky

[on one]

31 minutes ago, Funky said:

My issue was not leaning forwards enough.

I had that issue for a long time, too. I just wanted to make sure I didn't face plant.

I didn't mean that @Krozin should consider buying a V8 only as a learner wheel. Being a measly 32 lbs it's a niche wheel for a come-along pretty much anywhere, and being 84v/1000 watts, it's quite powerful.

Believe me, I'm  definitely not a fan of Inmotion. My Inmotion rim got all dented up and the axel broke. And Inmotion's Smart BMS is clearly not able to keep the battery packs balanced without making a call to China. Still, though, a  799 USD Inmotion wheel is attractive. Now that I am aware of to take it easy on the V8, I'd be pleased with it, but it's nothing compared to my Z10 which could be had for a measly 1199 USD! Now that is a hell of a lot of bang for buck being 52v/1800 watt. Z10 is a superb learning wheel as I am 18 months in learning and I still am mastering it.

Now, I'm not suggesting @Krozin look at the Z10 as a learner, even though I think the Z10 is far and away the best learner wheel because it's so unpredictable, and the rider needs learn a multitude of techniques to master. Then, once Z10 is mastered those skills xfer to other wheels that would not have taught the rider, ever.

[OldFartRides]

Telling a newb to do a “Superman” lean is really bad advice. If your feet are far enough forward on the foot plates, getting the wheel to move forward is effortless.  
 

Best,

[on one]

17 minutes ago, OldFartRides said:

Telling a newb to do a “Superman” lean is really bad advice.

Good point, @OldFartRides

Good gracious, I just looked at the ratio for T4, 100v/2500 watt !! Telling a newb to get a T4 is really bad advice.

 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, OldFartRides said:

Telling a newb to do a “Superman” lean is really bad advice. If your feet are far enough forward on the foot plates, getting the wheel to move forward is effortless.  
 

Best,

Doh to do that - you need to have ankles level position with pedal "L" brackets. Which would result in somewhat 1/3 foot over front of pedals - tell how beginner will like riding like that. Otherwise if you aren't leaning/pressing front of pedals down - you will be sitting in place, not moving forwards.

Yes superman lean is the best thing one can do to get going... If one isn't moving forwards at all. Stepping on/off EUC without moving a feet forwards. (Free-mounting, standing on wheel and loosing balance after 3 seconds and stepping down.) I'm not talking about going 30-50mph.. As soon as you start going you can slow down.

Yes my first ever ride was with superman lean start.. I hopped on with both of my feet and leaned forwards like falling. (Literally did trust fall, but forwards.) I went from 0~8mph in 2 seconds. That was my "eureka" moment and i figured out how wheel worked. Afterwards it was easy mode. 

Balancing in place for some days - i literally could balance on wheel without riding for some seconds.  

1 hour ago, on one said:

Good point, @OldFartRides

Good gracious, I just looked at the ratio for T4, 100v/2500 watt !! Telling a newb to get a T4 is really bad advice.

 

There have been people who buy Sherman-S's (Big wheels) as their first one. Yes learning stage will be harder/longer, but it is worth it. Skipping not needed wheel and buying right-out what one needs. If weight have not been a issue - i would have bought Sherman Max as my first wheel. 

Edited July 24 by Funky

[on one]

[meepmeepmayer]

2 hours ago, on one said:

Good gracious, I just looked at the ratio for T4, 100v/2500 watt !! Telling a newb to get a T4 is really bad advice.

That's nonsense

[Silver]

2 hours ago, on one said:

Good gracious, I just looked at the ratio for T4, 100v/2500 watt !! Telling a newb to get a T4 is really bad advice.

I got an RS19 as my first wheel back in the day and I don't regret it. It's 100v/2600w, it was heavy but I still learned just fine. In fact, the weight is a bigger deal than the motor power.

[meepmeepmayer]

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