What EUC is the safest and most durable?

[Rawnei]

6 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I think they must have sent all the good ones to Sweden.. I am not saying Inmotion is without problems or the Sherman s was a junk wheel. I was just saying that all manufacturers have had issues on first/second batch wheels. It's not exclusive to Inmotion. I understand your perspective and can appreciate the gravity of what you have unfortunately endured. Yes, i am bias towards Inmotion wheels because even with a few batch issues on a few wheels in my opinion they remain the leaders of the pack as far as innovation and engineering goes and have had great luck with their wheels apart from a few early batch issues that were immediately addressed with the v13. You are obviously bias towards leaper kim wheels and it seems like for good reason so we will have to agree to disagree. I never said those wheels were junk, i think they are better made than others but not without problems. Lastly i think you make a good point about battery fires, i hadn't thought of that aspect.

Inmotion really didn't pioneer that much, their fans sure seem to think so for some reason.

I am certainly not biased towards LeaperKim, as you can see on my profile here to the left I've owned wheels from all the manufacturers, even Inmotion, I'm simply sharing my experience from having owned a lot of different wheels together with my perception based on conversations engaging with a lot of people in the real life community, on telegram, here on the forums and on Facebook, our local community in Stockholm consists of pretty experienced riders who owns a wide variety of wheels from different brands, not to mention I service all my wheels myself and know how they work and help other people with their wheels.

You may not agree with my perception and my conclusions and that is completely fine you are entitled to your opinions but please don't try to paint me as some sort of fanboy which is ironic since you just said you are biased yourself, I'm a pretty critical voice when there are problems regardless of brand (even LeaperKim) but I am also critical to when people jump to conclusions and can't bother to do some simple research or verification of various claims or when downplaying other serious issues.

Edited July 12 by Rawnei

[techyiam]

In terms of how premium and refined a wheel feels, or how solid and smooth a wheel rolls, I would say the winners in this category are the Inmotion V13, and the Veteran Lynx (when it is brand new), IMO.

I don't own these wheels. But whenever I get a chance to ride them again, they just bring out these qualities when I climb on and roll.

And by watching the teardown videos, they do look quite well built, at least for an euc.

I also own an early batch V12 (HS), and had to endure the difficult chapter of this wheel. However, I never experienced a cutout, and I rode it everyday, basically all year round. Before the driver board replacement and matching firmware fix, I didn't use the "fancy" mode because when I did, the motor sounded strained. I also did not use power pads. And I got past this period fine.

However, if one was to look deeper, the V12 is a well built euc that incorporates some of the better practices of industrial design than its competitors in this era of plastic shell euc's.

I have to say, the Abrams was also a well built machine of this era.

Once the early batch issues have been resolved along with the latest firmware, both the V12 and the Abrams became reliable, and durable for riding everyday, even in very wet climates.

To add to this, I would also tag on the Kingsong S22 experience.

Out of the box, the S22 was a huge, huge disappointment, to say the least.

It was akin to having bought a "project" wheel, one that needs a lot of "tender loving care".

In my case, it was not super bad because I went in knowing this for the most part, since its price was heavily discounted. But for those who paid full price, and didn't know what they were in for, that would have been bad.

In any case, after Hou Ningning roller sliders replacement, a 300 lbs/in coil spring, and a lot of tinkering, and the shortening of suspension travel along with the latest firmware (V2.37), my S22 transform into a wheel that I really enjoy riding around my city. Even though, the S22 was announced almost three years ago, Kingsong still released a firmware update very recently. Among the things fixed, Kingsong improved the ride-ability of the S22. Leaper Kim never did that for the Abrams. They fixed the issues with the Abrams, but they did not keep improving it. Mind you, may be that is because Leaper Kim did not sell many Abrams.

Then by chance, I had an opportunity to ride an S16 Pro. What a revelation. It was as easy to control and corner as my V12. No learning curve. It rode incredibly well and stood out in my books.

I know it's only an 84V wheel, and has 1750 Wh of battery capacity. But because I like it so much for how it rode and feel, I bought one. My S16 Pro rode outstandingly well out-of-the-box, in stock form, which is a far cry from my S22.

On teardown, I was pleasantly surprised to learn what the S16 Pro really is. I was expecting a "water down" S22/Pro, using lots of cost-cutting measures. For those who do their wrenching and have lived with their S22/Pro for sometime, and have a good understanding of how the S22/Pro is built, would see right away that the S16 Pro is basically an S22/Pro chassis with all the proper design fixes. It is just that now, the wheel is 16", and controller has been scaled down to 84V, and a matching 4P 1500 Wh battery configuration, with a smaller than standard MTB coil shock. Kingsong put in proper pin joint and shock mounting hardware. The battery case gasket was properly implemented and assembled. The top deck that houses the controller, along with many other details were redesigned to make the S22/Pro better in significant ways. Their roller sliders indeed work well. I didn't even have got put in a softer spring. 

So now, I can't help but to think that Kingsong wheels are worth looking at again.

In conclusion, based on my personal ownership experiences of the various brands of wheels, for my next wheel purchase, wheels from Leaper Kim, KIngsong, and Inmotion will be on my short list. Begode and Extreme Bull wheels will be looked at too, since their latest offerings boasts good things on paper, even though I don't have much ownership experience with them. But I got to start somewhere.

Edited July 12 by techyiam

[on one]

The original question needs conceptualization and operationalization for safety and durability. The current discussion is great for qualitative research where we can refine basic ideas by what we mean by safety and durability.

I feel that a given make and model should have had time to be evaluated before it can even qualify, I want to say 3 years on the market, but that's an eternity in EUC time. I have owned 3 wheels: an early 2019 KS14D, a V10F, and a later model Ninebot Z10. My V10F (Inmotion) did it's death shake, which was likely a broken axel, within it's first 6 months of service so I recycled it. If by durablility, surviving bad crashes and accidents and small jumps then I would say the 14D and the Z10 rank 10/10, or rather 1/1 in my own wheels. If by safety we mean no battery fire and no cut out at speed then I would rank my 14D and Z10 10/10 or rather 1/1 of wheels that I've owned.

There seems to be a lot of reports of Inmotion's death shake including my own experience so I probably won't ever buy another Inmotion wheel.

[techyiam]

Note that both the V11 and V12 were among ewheels.com and other dealers best sellers. In other words, they sold well, and thus many units were out in the wild in use.

Since those two wheels, Inmotion has released the V13, V11Y, E20, V13 Pro, and V12 Pro. We need to hear from owners as to how these new Inmotion products faired.

In practical terms, the V12 has dynamic tailback that works well. Also, the battery packs are IPx7 rated. When changing a tire, the battery packs need not be disturbed. And the self diagnostics on the cells are legendary thorough. Unlike riding its competing products, riding my V12 is usually a peace of mind (after the driver board replacement and firmware update). I still ride my V12. I can go right up to the 70 km/h limit or less depending on SOC, and not have to fear of a cutout.

The V13 has even more safety implementations than the V12. Which other euc has fault-tolerant dual Hall sensors setup? How about potted cells? There is even a fault-tolerant communication between BMS's and the motherboard. And the wire gauge of the phase wires running from the motor to the control board. The list is long.

[on one]

I have been wondering why there have been so many new release wheels instead of refinements and upgrades of existing models, in general, the v11y being the exception that comes to mind. It's my feeling that while Ninebot chose to perfect the Z10, most other companies are trying to fool us into thinking that they have fixed all the old problems whith their new release. Again the exception to this appears to be the Inmotion V13, as it seems to actually be the flagship product, rather than yet another latest and greatest farce.

[2disbetter]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

V12 Pro

I didn't know this was a thing. I have been of the mindset that an un-suspended EUC just has less moving parts and need for maintenance. The whole time I have been thinking that the dual hall sensors and raptor mainboard would be perfect in there. That seems to be exactly what the V12 pro is. Does anyone have one of these? 

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

On 7/12/2024 at 3:24 AM, Rawnei said:

Lynx has very fast tire change, you just remove one side battery and you have access to the tire.

waterproofing?

wire management?

Yeah, way better than Inmotion. How many times have you had to bleed the air out of the shocks so they don't leak? These wheels aren't junk but still have some catching up to do. Hardly the " Best quality" EUC's out there. But you are entitled to your opinion as well, but you probably shouldn't ignore reality when you do it though.

 

 

Edited July 14 by Punxatawneyjoe

[Rawnei]

27 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

waterproofing?

wire management?

Yeah, way better than Inmotion. How many times have you had to bleed the air out of the shocks so they don't leak? These wheels aren't junk but still have some catching up to do. Hardly the " Best quality" EUC's out there. But you are entitled to your opinion as well, but you probably shouldn't ignore reality when you do it though.

 

 

Not sure what this whole post is about, now you're just acting like a full blown clown.

To answer your questions (are they questions? I can not tell).

To the first screenshot no you don't need to remove any bumpers, you remove two screws on the bumper connectors (the handles) and bumpers stays on.

You don't need to bleed the shocks.

I don't understand your complain about wire management, anyone who opened up a LeaperKim wheel has remarked how tidy and clean everything is.

At this point you're grasping for straws and just talking smack for no apparent reason.

[Scubadragonsan]

That's a million dollar question! Objective criteria and specifications can be found. But there is no objective criteria for riders from diverse background, preferences and riding habits. One would only know after riding various wheels, comparing them and then making a decision as to what is safest and durable. One thing I find from watching YouTube and on this forum is that there is no safe or safer or safest wheel when riders keep pushing their wheels to their limits!

[Funky]

All EUC's are safe and reliable till that one dreadful day - when they fail you. Then they stop being just that..

One person can have a wonderful experience on one concrete model, next person can have just nightmare after a nightmare on exact same model.

[Funky]

In other words.. This topic is meaningless.  Because any EUC can break and become unreliable any given moment..

Even most sturdy and well known/liked EUC by community can be a lemon for some other user. Who has had some kind of bad experience and simply don't like that specific EUC - that other's have liked.

It's more or less same question as are you a dog person, or a cat person.. Some will like dogs, other will like cats. Some will like both. Each will say their option why they like that specific animal.. And then there's guys who like snakes who eat hamsters/mice..

PS - I like snakes.

Edited July 14 by Funky

[Cerbera]

The topic is meaningless at the point of the crash ! Until then it's a reasonable conversation to have !

[Funky]

It's forcing owns believes/want/needs onto others.. One person can love and like and think that one specific EUC is God send.. For other it may be just a junk. Or mediocre at best.

Yes there are some better built EUC's out there. I agree on that. But we don't really know what specific individual is looking to get out of EUC. And like i said before - it's still chance to get lemon.

In that case Mten4 is just perfect wheel. You won't be going fast and in case of a cut-out you can simply jump over it.  See now - to some it is that perfect wheel - to next this is a joke. You choose your poison.

Edited July 14 by Funky

[Funky]

Anyways from what i have noticed: Leaperkim, Begode, Inmotion, Kingsong in that order.

In past Inmotion where somewhat better in quality, but nowadays it's simply isn't there.

Begode in past where the worst in quality. But performance where there! Nowadays it's night and day difference they have risen from ashes (Literally)  

Leaperkim simply makes best wheels hands down. Begode not being far off nowadays.. 

Kingsong past few years have been lacking majorly.

 

I personally hated Begode and i thought i never want to buy wheel from them. But what i'm seeing now! It amazes me. I personally like Leaperkim and Begode the most now!

Edited July 14 by Funky

[Punxatawneyjoe]

10 hours ago, Rawnei said:

You don't need to bleed the shocks.

FYI the bleeder screws are for bleeding out excess air that builds up in the shock over time if you don't periodically do it , the shock can leak oil. your welcome.

10 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Not sure what this whole post is about, now you're just acting like a full blown clown

If you begin by insulting the person, you have already lost the argument. You know what i was showing you, the truth.

[Rawnei]

4 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

FYI the bleeder screws are for bleeding out excess air that builds up in the shock over time if you don't periodically do it , the shock can leak oil. your welcome.

And I re-iterate, you don't need to bleed the shocks.

You continue to derail this thread, good job.

[Chriull]

Personal insults are neither necessary nor wanted here!

Posts do not have to be replied to immediately - could help to keep emotions down.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

12 hours ago, Rawnei said:

You continue to derail this thread, good job.

Discussing the reliability and build quality on a thread labeled " what euc is the safest and most durable" is derailing it? Are you ok? I am sorry you don't agree with my assessment but that's how discussions work, they are 2 sided "usually".

https://betterdirtbikeriding.com/fork-bleeders/

This might also help you to understand the importance of the bleed screws on you EUC suspension and how to use them.

 

Edited July 15 by Punxatawneyjoe

[alcatraz]

On 7/15/2024 at 12:20 AM, Funky said:

In other words.. This topic is meaningless.  Because any EUC can break and become unreliable any given moment..

Good point. How can we collect statistics but account for hardware failures or rider induced failures?

A 120kg rider might not get the same mileage between failures as a 60kg rider. 

How do we account for stunting/joyriding and just plain A to B commuting?

Overheating might be more common in hot environments skewing the statistic.

[Robse]

Just to add some exotic spice to this thread, I'd say the best build quality and foresight I've seen in an EUC to date is this little one, Ninebot One S2 - no longer made (not sure??)  and also obsolete, but with smart BMS already in 2016, and fairly waterproof, and really nice and well built. Mine has now lasted +5 years, taught several people to ride, been on trips, thrown around, knocked over, fantastic little wheel.

Have fun with this outdated site on the internet:

https://eu-en.segway.com/products/ninebot-by-segway-one-s2