Leaperkim Sherman L 151V 4000wh 20" 102lbs

[Clem604]

14 hours ago, techyiam said:

Gabe posted a picture of the Sherman-L in its shipping box yesterday at around 5:30 pm at eevees.

Actually, Gabe is looking for someone to lend him a Sherman-S to compare with. 

Good to know. I was given a ballpark price from one of the sales people and I was like 😱. I definitely have to ride it first before any decisions are to be made. If it has more "zippyness" at low speed that will help to win me over as the SS is a tad sluggish from a stop.

[novazeus]

think the michelin 90/90 r14 city grip 2 will fit?

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Clem604 said:

SS is a tad sluggish from a stop

You'll have a great career as a comedian.

[Duster]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

You'll have a great career as a comedian.

I don't think that's a fair statement to make. It's not always the clearest as to what makes a wheel accelerate faster or slower than another wheel. Some say it's a matter of firmware (power curve tuning), others say it's the raw power of the motor and battery, and plenty say it's about difference in riders.

With all that vagueness up in the air, it's fair for someone to believe that a 100v, 100lbs might be "sluggish" in comparison to a similar weight wheel with higher voltage batteries and higher wattage motors.

Now, with that said, I'm just now remembering how many people said the Lynx accelerates comparably to the SS. Chances are the SL and the SS are comparable in acceleration from a stop. Maybe this changes when you're going uphill (I.e. The SL can overcome the stress of hills and accelerate faster). What's probably most likely, though, is that the perception of a new wheel is exciting, and it's easy to expect improvements because "what we don't have must be better than what we do have. "

Edited July 10 by Duster
Typo

[Paul g]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

You'll have a great career as a comedian.

Mango, please allow me to congratulate Clem604 for his reply to your comment 😛😂😂 , we all have our good days and not so inspired ones(I know from own experience 😜)

[novazeus]

jason is taking deposits so i'm in.

i figure a pretty safe bet because if it turns out being a bad pick, i can always switch to the ks f22. i'd like to try both. 

i ordered the tnt tubeless because idk how the 267lb max load kenda will do with an extra ten or so pounds. i'd rather have a knobby, but i can tell i'm maxing out the kenda's on the lynes and i'm 170 naked.

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, Clem604 said:

Good to know. I was given a ballpark price from one of the sales people and I was like 😱. I definitely have to ride it first before any decisions are to be made. If it has more "zippyness" at low speed that will help to win me over as the SS is a tad sluggish from a stop.

Just shy of $7000 CAD? If it is, ouch.

[Clem604]

1 hour ago, Duster said:

I don't think that's a fair statement to make. It's not always the clearest as to what makes a wheel accelerate faster or slower than another wheel. Some say it's a matter of firmware (power curve tuning), others say it's the raw power of the motor and battery, and plenty say it's about difference in riders.

With all that vagueness up in the air, it's fair for someone to believe that a 100v, 100lbs might be "sluggish" in comparison to a similar weight wheel with higher voltage batteries and higher wattage motors.

Now, with that said, I'm just now remembering how many people said the Lynx accelerates comparably to the SS. Chances are the SL and the SS are comparable in acceleration from a stop. Maybe this changes when you're going uphill (I.e. The SL can overcome the stress of hills and accelerate faster). What's probably most likely, though, is that the perception of a new wheel is exciting, and it's easy to expect improvements because "what we don't have must be better than what we do have. "

All these points are correct, I meant sluggish relative to the other wheels I have tried. It's not to say that the SS is bad (at low speed) but I feel it could be improved upon. With that said, the local rider testing the wheel now said what stood out to him after a few hours of testing was the responsiveness of the wheel. What he means by that I will have to see myself with a test ride.

 

58 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Just shy of $7000 CAD? If it is, ouch.

I was told $6100 but $7k?! I sure hope not.

Edited July 10 by Clem604

[novazeus]

38 minutes ago, Clem604 said:

was told $6100 but $7k?! I sure hope not.

that's what jason is charging as well, $4480. must be map pricing. 

yeah, gonna be a pricey wheel once i add beidou's and hou ningning must have accessories.

[BKW]

29 minutes ago, novazeus said:

that's what jason is charging as well, $4480. must be map pricing. 

yeah, gonna be a pricey wheel once i add beidou's and hou ningning must have accessories.

What's crazy is you can get the OG commander Pro for 2400 right now -- nearly half the price with pretty great specs as is. At this point, considering the price, I think i'd rather stick to the cheaper older wheels that really aren't that worse off. However, I can totally understand someone who is just getting into EUCs and wants the "best of the best" to spend that money, or even those strong hobbyists amongst us (many of us here). Still, this wheel should sell very well i think regardless of my preferences nowadays.

The good thing about all these new wheels coming out, it just means more "old" good wheels new and used are being sold at good discounts. I regularly see the 16X sold for $500 which is crazy considering I can get 7 hours doing deliveries on it per day

Edited July 10 by BKW

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, Clem604 said:

I was told $6100 but $7k?! I sure hope not.

Edited 2 hours ago by Clem604

Sorry, I meant shy of $7000 out-the-door price.

So $6100 + tax is $6832. So that sounds about right.

 

I just came back from eevees. When I got there, Gabe was out, and there was no Sherman-L in sight. Luckily Gabe came back not too long after I got there. Apparently, the Sherman-L was hiding under Gabe's desk.

I only got to lift up the wheel, and trolley around the Sherman-L. I was not allow ride it in the showroom, not even to step on it. But at least, I get to see it in person.

It does indeed look like Leaper Kim did its magic again. The Sherman-L did feel easy to trolley. I brought over the V14 next to the Sherman-L. To my surprise, the Sherman-L felt as easy to lift off the ground as the V14. The V14 weighs about 90 lbs, and 102 for the Sherman-L. My own Abrams weighs about 100 lbs. After I got home, I lifted my Abrams off the ground in the same manner. And Abrams' weight felt significantly heavier. And my Abrams is bone stock; it even has the original stock tire on it.

If you ride your Sheman-S there, you can compare your Sherman-S directly with the Sherman-L.

From looking at the exterior, the Sherman-L seems to be well built. The trolley is done quit well. There is nothing cheap about it.

[Clem604]

40 minutes ago, techyiam said:

If you ride your Sheman-S there, you can compare your Sherman-S directly with the Sherman-L.

From looking at the exterior, the Sherman-L seems to be well built. The trolley is done quit well. There is nothing cheap about it.

Yes I will be doing that tomorrow. Thanks for your first impressions.

Edited July 11 by Clem604

[novazeus]

24 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The trolley is done quit well.

i'm glad they changed the retractable trolley handle.  they won't fit in their keter boxes extended and sometimes it's frustrating trying to get the handle back in. 

someday when i have to disassemble one, i'm gonna fix it.

[Merkyu Kyu Kyu]

[Merkyu Kyu Kyu]

Sherman L stair test.

[Rawnei]

35 minutes ago, Merkyu Kyu Kyu said:

Small small correction, the Sherman L is 46.5kg.

[Rollin-on-1]

26 minutes ago, Merkyu Kyu Kyu said:

Sherman L stair test.

That's impressive

[Anthraksi]

19 hours ago, Clem604 said:

Good to know. I was given a ballpark price from one of the sales people and I was like 😱. I definitely have to ride it first before any decisions are to be made. If it has more "zippyness" at low speed that will help to win me over as the SS is a tad sluggish from a stop.

As far as I'm aware, any LK wheel (at least from Sherman S onwards) is a bit sluggish from a full stop, but wakes up pretty soon after you start accelerating. Most likely an intentional decision on the firmware side, since the one thing that you do not want to happen on an EUC is to lose traction while accelerating. You ain't got a second tire that still has traction and keeps you from faceplanting. They probably could tweak it to accelerate a little bit faster from a full stop, but I don't really mind it at all. Better safer than having the possibility of losing traction.

But that said, the Sherman S is definitely the sluggiest of them all. Also the braking power is uhhh, mild to say the least and might be one of the biggest cons of the wheel at this point, at least for me. It still has power and torque once you get going and even at 5000km it still is enough for me at least. I got no concerns about range and I am pretty convinced that the 400wh difference the L has makes no difference whatsover since more power and torque usually means that you ride a bit more aggressively and you probably lose the 400wh to that and then some.

Smart BMS, braking power and the hall sensor thingy are the reasons I would be interested in this. Added power is just a bonus. And if the hall sensor things comes as a FW update to the older wheels as well (Patton, SS) I don't think im upgrading. No point in paying at least 2k€ for those added features.

[Rawnei]

Just lean harder for more acceleration or braking. 🙄

[Anthraksi]

1 minute ago, Rawnei said:

Just lean harder for more acceleration or braking. 🙄

No shit? Haven't thought of that before, jesus christ what a revelation.

Remarks aside it's not about the lean angle itself, just that the SS lacks a little bit on the braking department, more than I would like it to. I got my ass on the pavement while braking and I still feel the braking distance could be a little bit less than it is. Lynx has a shorter braking distance, so I'd think that the L would end up being similar to that, maybe a little bit more due to the added weight.

[Rawnei]

Here Kuji Rolls demonstrate how to win a drag race on Sherman S simply by leaning hard (timestamped)

 

1 minute ago, Anthraksi said:

No shit? Haven't thought of that before, jesus christ what a revelation.

Remarks aside it's not about the lean angle itself, just that the SS lacks a little bit on the braking department, more than I would like it to. I got my ass on the pavement while braking and I still feel the braking distance could be a little bit less than it is. Lynx has a shorter braking distance, so I'd think that the L would end up being similar to that, maybe a little bit more due to the added weight.

All the wheel can do is respond to rider input and spin the motor, it can't do anything else, if you lean harder it brakes harder, there is no magic happening, if you feel your braking is off maybe you need to take another look at how your pads are setup.

Edited July 11 by Rawnei

[Merkyu Kyu Kyu]

Leaperkim - Acceleration Assist On/Off

[Rawnei]

Just now, Merkyu Kyu Kyu said:

Leaperkim - Acceleration Assist On/Off

Yes, so what acceleration assist is basically doing is allowing more pedal angle forward (soft mode plus) and let you lean more resulting in more acceleration, i.e lean assist.

[Anthraksi]

2 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

All the wheel can do is respond to rider input and spin the motor, it can't do anything else, if you lean harder it brakes harder, there is no magic happening, if you feel your braking is off maybe you need to take another look at how your pads are setup.

Might be the pad setup, I don't feel it is off so to speak, it's just that above certain speeds the braking distance is not great, but I'm not sure if its great on any EUC to be fair. It's better on some of them. Simple as. Haven't seen any videos of anyone having much better results either. Technique does play a huge role in it as well, but you really cannot deny that more power also translates into more braking power as well. Grabbing the front handle helps as well, but you know, there is only so much you can do.

Here's a video (timestamped) from Jon where he compares the braking distance of the SS and Lynx. You can also see his braking technique and as far as I can tell don't see much wrong with it on either wheels.

 

 

[Rawnei]

25 minutes ago, Anthraksi said:

Might be the pad setup, I don't feel it is off so to speak, it's just that above certain speeds the braking distance is not great, but I'm not sure if its great on any EUC to be fair. It's better on some of them. Simple as. Haven't seen any videos of anyone having much better results either. Technique does play a huge role in it as well, but you really cannot deny that more power also translates into more braking power as well. Grabbing the front handle helps as well, but you know, there is only so much you can do.

Here's a video (timestamped) from Jon where he compares the braking distance of the SS and Lynx. You can also see his braking technique and as far as I can tell don't see much wrong with it on either wheels.

 

 

As long as the wheel is not loosing traction (never heard of a EUC doing that in normal conditions) or you are overpowering the wheel then there is always potential to lean more and it all comes down to how hard you are leaning.

There is one aspect that is different between wheels though: how comfortable you are at leaning it, if the wheel is not powerful for example you might be scared of overpowering it so naturally you will be leaning less because of that, if the wheel is heavier it can take more practice, same with higher pedals maybe one is not used to that and need to practice and get comfortable with that, but with practice you can accelerate or brake any wheel very hard as long you are not overpowering it (and with how powerful all the wheels on the market have become this is becoming more and more difficult).

Pedal mode can help also, soft mode will help you lean more but with practice you can lean just as hard with hard mode also, so it's an assist but definitely not necessary.

Same thing with this acceleration assist on the Sherman L, it's there to make it easier but with practice someone can get skilled enough to accelerate just as hard without it, but what acceleration assist can do is to make riders feel more comfortable accelerating on this relatively heavy wheel.

So in essence rider skill will determine these factors but wheel behaviour (pedal modes) can affect rider perception and make it "feel" easier.

But what I am trying to say with all this is that it is technically wrong to think that one wheel will accelerate or brake faster just because your perception tells you it's easier, the potential is still there to be tapped, that doesn't make your perception or feeling of how easy it is wrong, they are two different things.

And don't forget that pads can change a lot, if they are in the way or too far away it will affect your riding capability and thus also your perception.

Edited July 11 by Rawnei