MTEN5 - 84v - 50s

[DavidB]

On 7/30/2024 at 4:00 PM, slippyfeet said:

The noise is emanating from the underbody, where there is a channel cutout for the tire to barely rotate without touching.. this is where the small gravel pieces are accumulating and juggling around.

I can't tell from the image on my phone. Does the cut out go all the way through to the silicon sock that the battery rests in?

[Asphalt]

14 hours ago, Esash said:

 

Useful review, but this throw-away comment at 33:34 raises some questions:
https://youtu.be/rcQzhc88soQ?si=MqvsICa3GSYZ2ZKd&t=2014

Google auto-translated:

Quote

I also wanted to say something else by the way, lastly, before I forget, it's pretty hot
he has a controller.
You see I rolled some crap he was already 41 before that when I was jumping there he was jumping on the platform
either there's too much paint or the gasket is some kind of really bad gasket. Well, in short, it heats up even though it's 22 degrees outside.
somewhere Today maybe 21 well in short not hot not hot a classic St. Petersburg day

My interpretation of the translation is that the reviewer says that the mTen5 controller runs hot.
41-degrees Celsius doesn't seem unreasonable for control board temperature, but maybe someone with a better understanding of Russian can interpret more accurately.

It'd be useful if a reviewer could investigate the heat insulating effects of the silicon sock encasing the control board and batteries, especially with sustained high-amperage output. Also, it'd be useful if the existence of a heatsink could be confirmed or denied.

 

Perhaps I'm just being paranoid, but Begode's solution for ingress protection seems to be sacrificing thermal management.

They could solve this by inserting a radiator between the control board and batteries.

[slippyfeet]

Did a mini range test on my route and stranded myself 1/2 mile from home. 30km range wheel after 2 top speed run attempts and a hill climb if you’re willing to ride through battery alarms. I stop at double beeps, and walked the rest of the way <— impromptu trolley test, rolling it backwards was easier, pushing with the forward orientation resulted in more collapsing of the trolley extension. Still a far cry from the 16S/18XL style.

The 12” wheel handles 35-40km/h cruising well, but it develops a strange up/down oscillation feeling at the 46-48 mark. I stopped at that point because there are pre-wobbles that set in once you release the forward lean.

This is very much a clean terrain sidewalk/city wheel. Everything you roll over at <20km/h turns the wheel into a cowbell. It doesn’t affect the operation of the wheel, but you feel all the debris clanking and reverberating through the plastics.
 

“Performance” I’d say is on par with my 18XL and Falcon. looking at the mobo temp it does indeed run at temps I’ve seen on my old T3. But be advised that its small wheel diameter can get sketchy real fast at speeds.

To be honest, the mten5 is an amalgamation of compromises. Outside of perhaps the instant gratification of 0-35 acceleration, it doesn’t do anything else that warrants replacing anything else I have.

-Handles bumps better than my 18XL but has 1/3 the range. 

-Has snappier acceleration than my Falcon, but gets instantly squirrelly at 45km/h.

-Much heavier than my Mten4, also with less pedal and wheel well clearance.

[slippyfeet]

22 hours ago, DavidB said:

I can't tell from the image on my phone. Does the cut out go all the way through to the silicon sock that the battery rests in?

No, it’s just a shallow notch in the bottom plate, separate piece from the sock.

[Esash]

11 hours ago, slippyfeet said:

Did a mini range test on my route and stranded myself 1/2 mile from home. 30km range wheel after 2 top speed run attempts and a hill climb if you’re willing to ride through battery alarms. I stop at double beeps, and walked the rest of the way <— impromptu trolley test, rolling it backwards was easier, pushing with the forward orientation resulted in more collapsing of the trolley extension. Still a far cry from the 16S/18XL style.

The 12” wheel handles 35-40km/h cruising well, but it develops a strange up/down oscillation feeling at the 46-48 mark. I stopped at that point because there are pre-wobbles that set in once you release the forward lean.

This is very much a clean terrain sidewalk/city wheel. Everything you roll over at <20km/h turns the wheel into a cowbell. It doesn’t affect the operation of the wheel, but you feel all the debris clanking and reverberating through the plastics.
 

“Performance” I’d say is on par with my 18XL and Falcon. looking at the mobo temp it does indeed run at temps I’ve seen on my old T3. But be advised that its small wheel diameter can get sketchy real fast at speeds.

To be honest, the mten5 is an amalgamation of compromises. Outside of perhaps the instant gratification of 0-35 acceleration, it doesn’t do anything else that warrants replacing anything else I have.

-Handles bumps better than my 18XL but has 1/3 the range. 

-Has snappier acceleration than my Falcon, but gets instantly squirrelly at 45km/h.

-Much heavier than my Mten4, also with less pedal and wheel well clearance.

Thanks a lot for the report. Range sounds disappointing but maybe the top speed and hill tests did a big number, idk.

Zippier and smaller and more agile than the Falcon seems like a pretty sweet combination. I can see how your ownership of the MTen4 and Falcon would subdue your enthusiasm for the MTen5 a bit.

But that zippy acceleration and compact size and good build quality sounds like a great combination for a city commuter. I'm guessing the braking is outstanding too, but you'd know not me.

Edited August 5 by Esash

[Asphalt]

First report of the mTen5 overheating:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/8037154633049096/

Has anyone else been experiencing this?

[Hellkitten]

I’ve recently heard from some riders I know that the second batch may have a too small amount of thermal paste on the boards. I have no idea if that’s true, or just chatter. Couldn’t hurt to look under the hood. 

Edited August 14 by Hellkitten

[Asphalt]

I doubt it's a thermal paste issue.
Even if the thermal paste is perfect, the board and battery pack are encased in a silicone case.
There is no heatsink for the thermal paste to transfer heat to.
The control board sits directly on top of the batteries.

At least in the mTen4 and A2, there was no silicone case to insulate the whole package.

[kintips]

47 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

I doubt it's a thermal paste issue.
Even if the thermal paste is perfect, the board and battery pack are encased in a silicone case.
There is no heatsink for the thermal paste to transfer heat to.
The control board sits directly on top of the batteries.

At least in the mTen4 and A2, there was no silicone case to insulate the whole package.

Yeah i thought its because this MTEN5 is completely waterproof, therefore no airflow whatsoever. That can't be a good thing with electrical components. They need to add a Heatsink and Fan (unless the mten5 already has one, i know my MTEN4 doesn't but its also not water proof) like the Kingsong 16X.

[Tep]

Just got mine, also running very hot (rode for 1.1 km, temp went from 45C to 59C).

The person who posted on facebook about overheating tore theirs down, and it turns out that the battery & board are encased in a plastic/rubber tray, sitting on top of a polycarbonate frame. The rubber help with a better water seal, but it doesn't exchange heat at all, so the board inside is getting hotter slowly until it eventually overheat.

 

The board setup is the same as A2/Mten4, where the board sits directly above the battery pack, but the big difference is that Mten4/A2 uses metal trays, which help regulate the ambient temp inside the wheel. Mten5's rubber tray does the opposite.

Edited August 15 by Tep

[Oliver Gould]

1 hour ago, Tep said:

Just got mine, also running very hot (rode for 1.1 km, temp went from 45C to 59C).

The person who posted on facebook about overheating tore theirs down, and it turns out that the battery & board are encased in a plastic/rubber tray, sitting on top of a polycarbonate frame. The rubber help with a better water seal, but it doesn't exchange heat at all, so the board inside is getting hotter slowly until it eventually overheat.

 

The board setup is the same as A2/Mten4, where the board sits directly above the battery pack, but the big difference is that Mten4/A2 uses metal trays, which help regulate the ambient temp inside the wheel. Mten5's rubber tray does the opposite.

"Let's put the control board directly on top of the battery, with an insubstantial heatsink and then encase all of that in an airtight, thick silicone sock. What could go wrong?"

[kintips]

8 minutes ago, Oliver Gould said:

"Let's put the control board directly on top of the battery, with an insubstantial heatsink and then encase all of that in an airtight, thick silicone sock. What could go wrong?"

Maybe it was meant to be ridden in Water lol I remember watching that Begode video where they were submerging it. They should just market it as the Beach wheel its to be taken into water to cool it down.

[Ronin]

I observed a weird behavior from this euc yesterday :

 

It's so big btw, I hardly understand the point of this wheel vs a Falcon. 

Edited August 17 by Ronin Ryder

[kintips]

4 hours ago, Ronin Ryder said:

I observed a weird behavior from this euc yesterday :

 

It's so big btw, I hardly understand the point of this wheel vs a Falcon. 

That guy was a experienced rider, you can tell the pendulum. The comments say its becuz hes a newbie. I have my MTEN4 its never cut out on me doing stuff like that

[slippyfeet]

Looks like ewheels is offering a "plus" controller batch on preorder here

The talk on telegram groups are saying theres no thermal transfer through the chassis due to the use of insulation in some continuity points/screws.

I still think the wheel clearance is the biggest dealbreaker by design...

and I much rather have the +plus controller and 50s cells in my knobby mten4... 

Edited August 17 by slippyfeet

[Tep]

The A2+ board on Mten5 is something Jason has said in the beginning, so they're manifesting it into reality.

Honestly? I'm all for this move. This Mten5 have the same 84V 750Wh as the A2 and Mten4, and now they bumped top speed to 28 mph, it should have a more robust board to go along with the performance increase.

[slippyfeet]

51 minutes ago, Tep said:

The A2+ board on Mten5 is something Jason has said in the beginning, so they're manifesting it into reality.

Honestly? I'm all for this move. This Mten5 have the same 84V 750Wh as the A2 and Mten4, and now they bumped top speed to 28 mph, it should have a more robust board to go along with the performance increase.

Yup I followed that mention from months ago, always nice on paper but my experience going 26-29mph on the regular mten5 is simply unpleasant by physical design.
 

3 hours ago, slippyfeet said:

and I much rather have the +plus controller and 50s cells in my knobby mten4... 

It's the higher amperage charge speed the + controller/50S cells allows that's a big deal for me.^


Mten4 still has the better size and clearances to handle real world crud surface conditions while the mten5 is mostly amenities. 

Its just a name iteration but a completely different wheel and a completely different use (like the T3 -> T4), in fact this wheel more resembles an "A1" to the A2 especially in terms of weight. 

[Tep]

I have concluded my testing of the Mten5, it's a very small wheel, so not much to investigate. 

The wheel really exceeded my expectation, but the temp issue can be a deal breaker for most people. 

I personally have gotten close to overheat but never did (66-69C), so I guess at 155lbs I barely pass.

 

 

[Jason McNeil]

On 8/19/2024 at 3:36 PM, Tep said:

I have concluded my testing of the Mten5, it's a very small wheel, so not much to investigate. 

The wheel really exceeded my expectation, but the temp issue can be a deal breaker for most people. 

I personally have gotten close to overheat but never did (66-69C), so I guess at 155lbs I barely pass.

Special thanks to Begode Peter for doing this side-by-side pendulum testing on MTen5 vs MTen5+ 
"up is Mten5P after 3 mins backward and forward testing from 36 to 58 degree; while down is Mten5 from 32 to 80 degree. So we can see improve reducing over heat from Mten5 to Mten5P. "

 

[Asphalt]

4 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Special thanks to Begode Peter for doing this side-by-side pendulum testing on MTen5 vs MTen5+ 
"up is Mten5P after 3 mins backward and forward testing from 36 to 58 degree; while down is Mten5 from 32 to 80 degree. So we can see improve reducing over heat from Mten5 to Mten5P. "

 

Great to see that Begode has acknowledge the issue and created a solution!

Assuming that the cover is the only thing that changed, this should be an easy retrofit.

This video only shows the testing of the mTen5. It would have been nice evidence to show the video of testing the mTen5+ as well, to answer a few questions:

• In the video the mTen5+ did not have side pads. Was it tested without the side pads, which could be considered additional insulation?
• Was the mTen5+ tested with the trolley handle covering the heat sink?
• Does the mTen5+ still use the silicone sock for ingress protection?
• With the new heatsink hole in the cover and 10 more screw holes, I'm curious how waterproof the mTen5+ is compared to the mTen5.
  Is there a gasket around the heatsink?
• What material are the heatsink fins are made of?
• Also, how does the location of the heatsink fins affect the ergonomics of carrying the wheel? Are there any concerns of burning yourself when you reach for the handle to pick up the wheel?

The head sink in the cover is a pragmatic solution which doesn't require a major change to the production pipeline.
A more integrated solution, maybe for a newly redesigned model, would be to have an air channel running from front to back, for heatsink fins between the control board and battery layers (similar to the OG Sherman air duct).

Edited August 21 by Asphalt
format and missed word

[kintips]

8 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

Great to see that Begode has acknowledge the issue and created a solution!

Assuming that the cover is the only thing that changed, this should be an easy retrofit.

This video only shows the testing of the mTen5. It would have been nice evidence to show the video of testing the mTen5+ as well, to answer a few questions:

• In the video the mTen5+ did not have side pads. Was it tested without the side pads, which could be considered additional insulation?
• Was the mTen5+ tested with the trolley handle covering the heat sink?
• Does the mTen5+ still use the silicone sock for ingress protection?
• With the new heatsink hole in the cover and 10 more screw holes, I'm curious how waterproof the mTen5+ is compared to the mTen5.
  Is there a gasket around the heatsink?
• What material are the heatsink fins are made of?
• Also, how does the location of the heatsink fins affect the ergonomics of carrying the wheel? Are there any concerns of burning yourself when you reach for the handle to pick up the wheel?

The head sink in the cover is a pragmatic solution which doesn't require a major change to the production pipeline.
A more integrated solution, maybe for a newly redesigned model, would be to have an air channel running from front to back, for heatsink fins between the control board and battery layers (similar to the OG Sherman air duct).

I have the exact same question, they added an air vent on the top will that hinder the waterproofing now?

[Asphalt]

Just now, kintips said:

I have the exact same question, they added an air vent on the top will that hinder the waterproofing now?

I don't think it's an air vent. It's probably an aluminium heat sink with a silicone gasket for ingress protection.
I don't know how effective it's going to be since it's hidden underneath the trolley handle, but Begode's claim is that it is a significant improvement to heat dissipation.

Also the long-term durability of the cover will be interesting to monitor since it's made of some sort of translucent plastic (acrylic?). I've seen reports of the cover cracking around the screw holes. Maybe these new holes in the cover won't crack because they're not load bearing.

[kintips]

9 hours ago, Asphalt said:

I don't think it's an air vent. It's probably an aluminium heat sink with a silicone gasket for ingress protection.
I don't know how effective it's going to be since it's hidden underneath the trolley handle, but Begode's claim is that it is a significant improvement to heat dissipation.

Also the long-term durability of the cover will be interesting to monitor since it's made of some sort of translucent plastic (acrylic?). I've seen reports of the cover cracking around the screw holes. Maybe these new holes in the cover won't crack because they're not load bearing.

Thanks for the info. I would be curious if this new controller gives higher top speed too

Also it seems not many places are carrying mten5

Does ewheels have another exclusive with begode? Eg blitz

[InMoOnGoWa75012]

 

 

[Ben Kim]

On 8/22/2024 at 1:10 AM, kintips said:

Thanks for the info. I would be curious if this new controller gives higher top speed too

Also it seems not many places are carrying mten5

Does ewheels have another exclusive with begode? Eg blitz

No, no exclusive on this wheel. It’s a special order that can be had by other vendors, albeit it will cost a bit more than the standard mten5, explaining the price bump.