Kingsong King-F22 , the King of High Performance | 155.4V 20" 2738Wh 50S

[Whalesmash]

Kingsong's firmware is still the nicest for jumping, stays flat and level rather than doing any weird dipping stuff. Maybe that's what he is referring to?

[Rawnei]

41 minutes ago, Whalesmash said:

Kingsong's firmware is still the nicest for jumping, stays flat and level rather than doing any weird dipping stuff. Maybe that's what he is referring to?

Latest LeaperKim firmware does that also.

And who's to say F22 firmware will be good?

I'm not bashing F22 just puzzled by the assumptions and comparisons to Lynx.

Edited August 15 by Rawnei

[Duster]

1 hour ago, Whalesmash said:

Kingsong's firmware is still the nicest for jumping, stays flat and level rather than doing any weird dipping stuff. Maybe that's what he is referring to?

WrongWay has noted similar about the jumping performance of Kingsong wheels. I suggested in one of his recent videos on the Lynx that he might want to turn off acceleration assist, as he seems to dislike how it dips his pedals forwards and backwards on turns. He said he'd experiment with it, so hopefully he can make some comparisons.

Considering this topic has focused on the 4v2 stanchion suspension design, I assume that what was being referred to is the relatively unproven claim that Leaperkim's suspension design is "unstable" compared to other suspension designs, despite it following dirt bike stanchion design quite closely. If that's what was being referred to, I'd say let's ignore the statement and discuss other potential comparisons between the F22 and Lynx.

[UPONIT]

On 8/11/2024 at 5:23 AM, Skampster said:

I haven’t read this thread, but my prediction with this wheel is that it will come and go with little interest. 

because...

On 8/15/2024 at 6:57 AM, jimjam.nyc said:

 

At first glance it looks a bit over engineered

 

honest question: that phrase is used several times in this thread. what exactly is over-engineered? can something have so much thought and planning put into it that it becomes a negative? too many features? how is that a negative?

now "overdesigned" i understand. too many decorative gew gaws; too many colors; bizarre angles, etc. 

hmmmmmmm   <----- why isn't the emoji for that in the catalog?

[jimjam.nyc]

Just now, UPONIT said:

because...

honest question: that phrase is used several times in this thread. what exactly is over-engineered? can something have so much thought and planning put into it that it becomes a negative? too many features? how is that a negative?

now "overdesigned" i understand. too many decorative gew gaws; too many colors; bizarre angles, etc. 

hmmmmmmm   <----- why isn't the emoji for that in the catalog?

You make a good point. It is kind of a goto thing to say. But I guess my interpretation would be in this situation:

a solution for a problem that may not really be a problem. 

So adding the extra moving parts for no real reason.

Either way I am interested to see how this wheel turns out, and if there really is a benefit to suspension design vs the other suspension wheels out there.

[UPONIT]

13 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

You make a good point. It is kind of a goto thing to say. But I guess my interpretation would be in this situation:

a solution for a problem that may not really be a problem. 

So adding the extra moving parts for no real reason.

Either way I am interested to see how this wheel turns out, and if there really is a benefit to suspension design vs the other suspension wheels out there.

ohhhhh. ok. you mean 4 suspensions might be introducing more room for error than providing some benefit? that makes sense. 

my mind just saw 4 forks and thought "mmmmmmmm... cushy"

[Rawnei]

6 hours ago, UPONIT said:

because...

honest question: that phrase is used several times in this thread. what exactly is over-engineered? can something have so much thought and planning put into it that it becomes a negative? too many features? how is that a negative?

now "overdesigned" i understand. too many decorative gew gaws; too many colors; bizarre angles, etc. 

hmmmmmmm   <----- why isn't the emoji for that in the catalog?

Trying too many ideas at once, solving simple problems with complex solution or solving a problem with a clutch solution (like small plastic rollers), more isn't always better sometimes less is more, etc.

[PourUC]

On 8/14/2024 at 1:26 PM, litewave said:

The Kingsong S22 motor is 3400w.

The S22 PRO motor is 4000w.

The S22 Pro and the S22 are the same wheel.

If it was begode it would be S22 V2.

I have an S22 with a 4000W motor, which was the universal replacement motor for units fucked with the non-pinned issue that went around.

S22 and S22 Pro shouldn't be treated like discrete units. They are the same, just different revisions.

Kingsong doesn't produce both the S22 and the S22 Pro like they do with the S16.

[PourUC]

It's worth pointing out that KingSongs first suspension wheel the S18 had 4 stanchions and a rear suspension. This isn't an over engineered solution. It's the natural progression from their current bearing design which uses 4 channels for sliders to stanchion-based suspension.

From 4 corners with sliders to 4 corners with stanchions and no rear shock.

[on one]

The ratio of four or the number four means a lot in Chinese culture. I just dug up this hit really quick but it’s another reason I really like KingSong is because they actually go by ancient wisdom for what it’s worth.

[litewave]

7 hours ago, PourUC said:

The S22 Pro and the S22 are the same wheel.

If it was begode it would be S22 V2.

I have an S22 with a 4000W motor, which was the universal replacement motor for units fucked with the non-pinned issue that went around.

S22 and S22 Pro shouldn't be treated like discrete units. They are the same, just different revisions.

Kingsong doesn't produce both the S22 and the S22 Pro like they do with the S16.

You're entitled to your opinion, I guess, but the manufacturers name the wheels, not the consumers. 

The S22 Pro had two significant upgrades over the S22: a more powerful motor and roller suspension. Those are important upgrades, whether you call it a V2 or Pro.

[InfiniteWheelie]

One major pro is that the battery cases are so well protected with this 4 leg design. The suspension should do a great job of protecting the battery cases from all sides during a crash. They effectively act as a roll cage for the battery which is the most expensive (and potentially dangerous) part to damage. Replacing a broken suspension leg is fairly inexpensive.

With the suspension moved to the corners, it enables the design of e-wheels that are thinner between the legs. This reduced width can be used for better ergonomics, and/or wider tires.  

This can be done by making the battery packs 1 cell deep instead of the typical 2 deep. Applying this design on a 20” wheel, you could fit at least 2600 Wh, with each of the 2 sub-packs being:   

• 1 cell deep  
• 4 cells wide
• 18 cells tall
• 36s 2p (151.2v)    
• 1300 Wh 

Edited August 22 by InfiniteWheelie

[Anthraksi]

12 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

One major pro is that the battery cases are so well protected with this 4 leg design. The suspension should do a great job of protecting the battery cases from all sides during a crash. They effectively act as a roll cage for the battery which is the most expensive (and potentially dangerous) part to damage. Replacing a broken suspension leg is fairly inexpensive.

With the suspension moved to the corners, it enables the design of e-wheels that are thinner between the legs. This reduced width can be used for better ergonomics, and/or wider tires.  

This can be done by making the battery packs 1 cell deep instead of the typical 2 deep. Applying this design on a 20” wheel, you could fit at least 2600 Wh, with each of the 2 sub-packs being:   

• 1 cell deep  
• 4 cells wide
• 18 cells tall
• 36s 2p (151.2v)    
• 1300 Wh 

The thing is, that piercing the battery packs hasn't really been an issue since they switched the material from plastic to metal. Some guy dropped his Lynx off a fuckin mountain and the battery packs were almost the only thing that did NOT get damaged.

 

So I'd say that 4 stanchions don't really affect the safety of the battery packs during a crash. I mean it might give you an increased sense of safety, but in reality ehhhh.... You can also use bumpers to reduce the scratches as well. I'd also argue that the suspensions are more susceptible to crash damage than a solid battery pack, so you might end up having to replace one or more of the stanchions after a crash in case they get bent or something.

This is still an overengineered wheel which by definition means that they are making the build overly complicated to fix problems that were not, are not and will not be problems to begin with. Then they end up with a product that is heavier and probably more expensive than the competition that is already on the market. It is just simply a day late and a dollar short for this wheel, especially since it hasn't launched yet and LK managed to beat this to the market with the Sherman L with similar weight but 1300wh more battery.

[Julian-NZ]

On 8/23/2024 at 10:28 PM, Anthraksi said:

Some guy dropped his Lynx off a fuckin mountain and the battery packs were almost the only thing that did NOT get damaged.

This makes me think that I should go back to wearing a tether again. 
I did manage to lose mine over the edge after a simple step off. Luckily it was saved by a small tree.
There was a very big cliff followed by a steep scree slope. 
Not sue I would have been able to get down there. It was a really remote location.
Certainly a big wakeup call for me!

[InfiniteWheelie]

3 hours ago, Julian-NZ said:

This makes me think that I should go back to wearing a tether again. 
I did manage to lose mine over the edge after a simple step off. Luckily it was saved by a small tree.
There was a very big cliff followed by a steep scree slope. 
Not sue I would have been able to get down there. It was a really remote location.
Certainly a big wakeup call for me!

So you can fly off the mountain too?

[Julian-NZ]

36 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

So you can fly off the mountain too?

I wouldn't call it 'flying off a mountain' when I'm using my S22. More like a quick examination of the ground and the wheel carries on without me!
But...... I also fly paragliders and aircraft.  They don't count when you are out on the trails

[InfiniteWheelie]

@Julian-NZ I mean using a tether. Seems like it would pull you off the mountain with it.

[Rawnei]

2 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

@Julian-NZ I mean using a tether. Seems like it would pull you off the mountain with it.

If a 40kg child pulls you will you fall?

[InfiniteWheelie]

36 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

If a 40kg child pulls you will you fall?

If the child is going 50 km/h then falls down a mountain yes it will.

[Rawnei]

7 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

If the child is going 50 km/h then falls down a mountain yes it will.

Who rides 50kmh on a mountain? Not realistic at all.

[EUCzero]

Riders who are strongly against the use of a tether have not even tested riding with a tether. Nor have they rode any off road where a tether is a must (along mountain sides). As a rider of an EUC you actually have some kind of responsibility. Not letting your EUC just roll down a mountainside hurting/killing someone. And not starting a fire 2 months later. So USE a tether in sutuations where this can be a potential problem. When it is not, do what you want.
 

Edited August 25 by EUCzero

[Skampster]

I highly doubt my lynx would pull me down a slope. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 hours ago, Skampster said:

I highly doubt my lynx would pull me down a slope. 

You should tell that to this guy, he was lucky there was a jogger nearby to hep him.

 

[Robse]

10 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

You should tell that to this guy, he was lucky there was a jogger nearby to hep him.

 

wow! one tuff cool woman ! helping in a sh*tty situation: cutting the thether, wheel gone saving life, or trying to save both... anyway: I don't understand the thrill, such places are to risky for me to ride, but thats just me. I also dont climb mountains
😁

Edited August 25 by Robse

[Punxatawneyjoe]

4 hours ago, Rawnei said:

If a 40kg child pulls you will you fall?

a " child" weighing 40kg(88lbs) which is lighter than some wheels moving at  6.7m/s2 (15mph) has the pull force of 268n , more than enough to take you with it even if you weigh 300lbs.

3 hours ago, EUCzero said:

Not letting your EUC just roll down a mountainside hurting/killing someone

funny that it's always a little hyperbole to prove the tether point. Are there a lot of people hanging out at the bottom of a cliff in remote areas? My guess is no.

This is just my opinion, i could care less if someone ties themselves to a 100lb brick. I just thinks it's poor judgement. I have yet to see an example of a "tether" saving some poor innocent bystander from certain death. However there a few examples of them being "inconvenient" at best.