Commander Pro charging board blew. Any ideas why? (PICTURE INCLUDED)

[BKW]

Yesterday I was forced to ride my Commader Pro in light rain for an extended amount of time. Because of this, I got the "hall sensor" beeping and it shut off the wheel (at least I think it was the hall sensor beeps). Ironically, I have had a similar thing happen to my 16X saying motherboard over-current 220, which I later unplugged the motor cable then plugged it back in and that beeping went away, almost like it needed to reset or something.

Knowing what happened to my KS16X, I figured I could try detaching the motor cable on the Commander Pro and maybe that would take away that beeping noise as well. All the components on the Commander Pro looked good on the motherboard, and no burnt smells, and it wasn't wet either, so I doubted the beeping had to do with the board(s).

This is where things starting getting bad to worse...

After unplugging the battery cables and draining the rest of any residual energy in the Commander Pro, I unplug the motor cables from the charging board so I can re-plug them in, as this seemed to fix the issue with the KS16X. I plug the motor cables back onto the controller board of the Commander Pro. I then connect the batteries back up. I have the alarm unplugged so I don't hear the beeping as it is extremely loud. I turn on the Commander Pro and as I roll it forward I see and hear a "POP!", spark flies and a tiny bit of smoke.

Come to find out part of the charging board blew (See picture).

I'm not sure why it blew. Any ideas? I think something happened after I detached the motor cables from the motherboard and reattached them that may have cause an excess amount of energy to come from the batteries to the charging board? Once again, the board was fine until I moved the wheel forward while on, then it popped.

What do you think caused the charging board to pop and burn up like that?

I'm still not entirely sure if I fixed the beeping noise as I had the beeper unplugged when the board blew. I'm afraid if I buy another charging board it will happen again. I don't want to repeat the issue.

Edited January 29 by BKW

[Planemo]

7 hours ago, BKW said:

I think something happened after I detached the motor cables from the motherboard and reattached them that may have cause an excess amount of energy to come from the batteries to the charging board?

I really don't think you did anything wrong here in terms of process of connections so don't beat yourself up. So you unplugged the packs, drained the board (presumably by turning on the wheel), unplugged the connection from the charge board to the main board, then pulled the motor cables, then replaced the motor cables, then re-connected the main board to the charge board, then replaced the battery connections. All sounds good to me. In fact I did this very recently on my EX30 (very similar if not identical charge/main boards) with zero problems other than the usual spark when connecting the final plug (charge board to motherboard).

Your pic though is quite telling - the spark has traced a clear line from the fuse to a main power feed which should never normally happen but it is indicative of there being a 'helpful' conductor between the two...eg water. Are you 100% sure the electronics/tray was bone dry?

Although not helpful now, this is why up until now I have never ridden my wheels in the rain. No matter how many vids I see of wheels being ridden in wet conditions without any apparent issues the problems are accumulative and can take some some to manifest themselves. I blame my fear of water ingress and knowledge of how it can get to places you would never imagine on having sailed for too many years! 

[BKW]

44 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I really don't think you did anything wrong here in terms of process of connections so don't beat yourself up. So you unplugged the packs, drained the board (presumably by turning on the wheel), unplugged the connection from the charge board to the main board, then pulled the motor cables, then replaced the motor cables, then re-connected the main board to the charge board, then replaced the battery connections. All sounds good to me. In fact I did this very recently on my EX30 (very similar if not identical charge/main boards) with zero problems other than the usual spark when connecting the final plug (charge board to motherboard).

Your pic though is quite telling - the spark has traced a clear line from the fuse to a main power feed which should never normally happen but it is indicative of there being a 'helpful' conductor between the two...eg water. Are you 100% sure the electronics/tray was bone dry?

Although not helpful now, this is why up until now I have never ridden my wheels in the rain. No matter how many vids I see of wheels being ridden in wet conditions without any apparent issues the problems are accumulative and can take some some to manifest themselves. I blame my fear of water ingress and knowledge of how it can get to places you would never imagine on having sailed for too many years! 

Yeah, I managed to do damage to both my CP and KS16X on the same night. It's really depressing, but I have no one to blame but myself.

The worst part of all of this is I have no idea what it is. I've been up all night trying to diagnose the problem and it looks like I won't know until I start buying expensive crap and find out.

I forgot to mention there were some wires disconnected when I went to attach the battery cables back to the terminals. But one was only the alarm, and the other went from the music board to the main board and didn't touch the charging board -- both these I did not notice were unplugged until directly after the pop sound. Immediately I thought it was probably due to the wires, but I'm not sure.

I was told I can replace the surface fuse on the charging board that blew, but it seems complicated in the sense it's a 40A fuse for 134V?

Regardless, going to buy another charging board and if that blows at least I'll have extra 40A fuses that I know will work from the previous board.

Then HOPEFULLY that fixes the issue, but I have a sneaking suspicion it won't because it was beeping long before that part blew, so I have no clue, which sucks...

More feedback would be greatly appreciated if anyone has any in the meantime

[Planemo]

24 minutes ago, BKW said:

and it looks like I won't know until I start buying expensive crap and find out.

Yeah I think if it were me I would just do a really good visual on all the electronics, maybe even get a hairdryer in there for 10 minutes despite it looking dry. Then just get another charge board, about £70 in the UK I think so maybe around $80? Much better than the price of a main board though! Jeez they are expensive.

24 minutes ago, BKW said:

I forgot to mention there were some wires disconnected when I went to attach the battery cables back to the terminals. But one was only the alarm, and the other went from the music board to the main board and didn't touch the charging board

I would be 99.99% sure they were nothing to do with it.

24 minutes ago, BKW said:

I was told I can replace the surface fuse on the charging board that blew,

It's an option but personally I wouldn't, it's impossible to know if anything else was taken out besides the tracking short. For the price of a charge board it's just not worth it. If we suspected just the fuse had gone then maybe but when you've had shorts directly between a fuse and somewhere it shouldn't...nope.

40A for 134v is not unusual?! Why do you think that?

24 minutes ago, BKW said:

but I have a sneaking suspicion it won't because it was beeping long before that part blew, so I have no clue, which sucks...

I missed that bit. Yeah thats not good... but as I say, if the main board looks OK thats the main cost out of the way. I would be tempted to remove it entirely for a proper inspection and then I would also split the main board from the MOS board (easily done, 4 screws) so you can properly inspect ALL the surfaces. Bear in mind that ideally you will need another thermal mat, they usually tear on removal. Or at least a tube of decent thermal paste to re-seat the original.

[BKW]

18 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I missed that bit. Yeah thats not good... but as I say, if the main board looks OK thats the main cost out of the way. I would be tempted to remove it entirely for a proper inspection and then I would also split the main board from the MOS board (easily done, 4 screws) so you can properly inspect ALL the surfaces. Bear in mind that ideally you will need another thermal mat, they usually tear on removal. Or at least a tube of decent thermal paste to re-seat the original.

Yeah, after I get the new charge board, and before I plug the battery cables to the terminals on the charge board, I will do some serious inspecting so I don't blow the board again.

It's a fairly new CP, and it wasn't raining much more than lightly. I do remember a "hall sensor" warning when it was beeping before I decided to disconnect the motor wires and later assemble everything before the charging board fuse blew. I'm hoping it was just the charging board and nothing else

Edited January 30 by BKW

[Planemo]

6 minutes ago, BKW said:

I do remember a "hall sensor" warning when it was beeping before I decided to disconnect the motor wires

Hmm I really hope that water hasn't found it's way into the motor. As I say, I'm massively paranoid about water ingress into high voltage/li-ion systems and this was reinforced when I had my V3 Sherman - I was OCD about water near EUC's and thus even when cleaning I never used water directly on them, only via a damp-ish sponge. On the Sherman I still found evidence of water ingress on the lower portion of paper-covered double sided sponge between the packs and internal surface of the side panels. I was properly shocked. I had the wheel from new and had pulled the side panels almost immediately to check the fabled ribbing had been removed and there was no signs of water on anything as you would expect. It was about a month later when I pulled the panels again for a check-up and saw the water marks. I had probably only washed it twice by that point and had never seen rain or even a wet surface. It wasn't an issue as the water had had no chance to get through the battery shrink wrap but it was clearly getting in the pack compartment despite my meticulous cleaning regime. The top cover also had essentially the same (poor) level of sealing so I ended up resorting to cleaning the wheel with wet wipes. Crazy.

And we haven't even touched on motor cover/wheel bearing sealing yet lol

[null]

Regarding @Planemo s Sherman: Very strange, especially if the damp-ish sponge didn't drip.. I wonder if remains from the fabrication process (liquid chemicals? moulding flow?) could leave invisible stains on the plastic surface which could attract dust more or less and look like liquid leaving minerals behind.

I'll get some water ingress stickers for next time I open the Sherman.

@BKW Feel for you, hope you get it sorted out without too much hassle. I hope we find some efficient ways of making it safer regarding water.

Edited January 30 by null

[BKW]

I replaced the charging board and it seemed normal until I moved the wheel forward and I got the beeps again. I looked at the begode app and it's the hall sensor warning again.

The motor wire that feeds to the motor does not appear to have any waterproof sealing that leads to the motor (see picture). But I'm not sure that opening feed directly into the motor, as that opening goes behind the suspension cnc part only.

So if it's truly the hall sensor, does this mean I have to replace the whole motor or can I fix the hall sensor?

Edited February 4 by BKW

[Planemo]

On 1/30/2024 at 11:41 AM, null said:

Very strange, especially if the damp-ish sponge didn't drip..

I can only assume it did drip. Deffo not anything else and in fact I once pulled the panels not long after washing and the sponge tape was damp so I know it could only have been from my (very careful) washing with a sponge. 

1 hour ago, BKW said:

The motor wire that feeds to the motor does not appear to have any waterproof sealing that leads to the motor (see picture). But I'm not sure that opening feed directly into the motor, as that opening goes behind the suspension cnc part only.

You can't see the entry point of the wire into the motor from that angle, the wheel needs to be removed to be able to look into the hollow bore of the axle as thats where the wire enters. There should be silicone sealant around the wire entry point, there was on my EX. However, a faulty hall sensor doesn't have to fail from water ingress, they can simply fail off their own back. If the hall is indeed water damaged I would have thought it was much more likely to be via entrance of the motor covers than the axle area.

In any event, if theres a hall problem theres a hall problem. It could even be a break anywhere in the hall sensor wires from the motor to the board. I hate to say it, but either way the motor is really gonna have to come out and likely have the covers removed for water ingress/hall sensor inspection and a continuity test of the hall wires. Gutted for you mate, I feel your pain

 

[null]

12 minutes ago, Planemo said:

You can't see the entry point of the wire into the motor from that angle, the wheel needs to be removed to be able to look into the hollow bore of the axle as thats where the wire enters. There should be silicone sealant around the wire entry point, there was on my EX. However, a faulty hall sensor doesn't have to fail from water ingress, they can simply fail off their own back. If the hall is indeed water damaged I would have thought it was much more likely to be via entrance of the motor covers than the axle area.

Having disassembled the EBCP recently the cable goes into the hollow part then enters the motor upward, and has silicone, so that part is fairly unlikely for ingress. Could be via the bearings (large and with no protection) or the motor covers. On a few EUCs I have siliconed the edges of the motor covers, but stopped doing so because it seems nobody thinks it's useful. I might reconsider. 

(You've really been particularly unlucky @BKW..)

Edited February 4 by null

[BKW]

4 minutes ago, Planemo said:

In any event, if theres a hall problem theres a hall problem. It could even be a break anywhere in the hall sensor wires from the motor to the board. I hate to say it, but either way the motor is really gonna have to come out and likely have the covers removed for water ingress/hall sensor inspection and a continuity test of the hall wires. Gutted for you mate, I feel your pain

 

I've taken apart my sherman max motor before to replace the bearings. I have experience and the tools for it. I just don't know how to check if the hall sensor is bad (although, I just watched a video that gave me an idea how to do it). Honestly, replacing the hall sensor doesn't look that bad. A new C38 motor is around $500.

It kind of makes sense though, because after installing the charge board the wheel turns on and it's fine idling until I move it back and forth is when I start to hear the beeps and the hall sensor warning shows on the app. In other words, it's only when I move the wheel do I get a problem apparently.

Even with that said, I don't understand why the charge board blew last time. I really hope I have the phase wires from the motor right... I forgot to take a picture of them beforehand. However, they are of a certain length where they can only reach to plug in a certain way

[BKW]

6 minutes ago, null said:

Having disassembled the EBCP recently the cable goes into the hollow part then enters the motor upward, and has silicone, so that part is fairly unlikely for ingress. Could be via the bearings (large and with no protection) or the motor covers. On a few EUCs I have siliconed the edges of the motor covers, but stopped doing so because it seems nobody thinks it's useful. I might reconsider. 

(You've really been particularly unlucky @BKW..)

Spinning the wheel now it sounds like the bearings are bad, which is pathetic because I've had my sherman max bearing go through 100xs worse and no issues with the bearings

And yeah, I am going through a bad streak right now for sure

Edited February 4 by BKW

[BKW]

@null by any chance you have a picture of your control board housing to the EBCP? I am curious of the motor wires and what color they are connecting to the control board so I know what order they go

[Planemo]

13 minutes ago, null said:

On a few EUCs I have siliconed the edges of the motor covers, but stopped doing so because it seems nobody thinks it's useful. I might reconsider. 

It's definitely very useful. It just makes splitting the covers at a later date quite a bit more hassle and will involve, at the least, some minor damage from the tools used to pry the bastards off. What price waterproofing though?!

10 minutes ago, BKW said:

I've taken apart my sherman max motor before to replace the bearings. I have experience and the tools for it. I just don't know how to check if the hall sensor is bad (although, I just watched a video that gave me an idea how to do it). Honestly, replacing the hall sensor doesn't look that bad. A new C38 motor is around $500.

Yeah if you can swop out the sensor yourself that might be a good option, assuming you can actually buy one of course. You may need to use a 3rd party 'generic' one? Being the cheapskate (and recycler) that I am, hating to throw anything anyway that can be fixed, I'm with you! 

10 minutes ago, BKW said:

However, they are of a certain length where they can only reach to plug in a certain way

Lucikly this is the case with many wheels these days, I did the same with my EX - forgot to make a note of which went where. On re-assembly they really could only go back in one way which kinda helped a lot! It was also a bonus that on removal I didn't more them very far from their original locations so the bends in the wires kinda lined them up to the mobo anyway.

[null]

Yes you can follow the cable colors from it.. good luck.

edit: since a few years I mark cables with a sharpie before disassembling, like I , II , III going toward the right for example.. helps a bit with keeping track.

Edited February 4 by null

[BKW]

7 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Yeah if you can swop out the sensor yourself that might be a good option, assuming you can actually buy one of course. You may need to use a 3rd party 'generic' one? Being the cheapskate (and recycler) that I am, hating to throw anything anyway that can be fixed, I'm with you!

Since it sounds like I have to replace the bearings anyway, I suppose I can check the hall sensor while I'm at it and then go from there...

1 minute ago, null said:

Yes you can follow the cable colors from it.. good luck.

@null thanks! This picture confirms I have the correct set up as right is green, middle is blue and left is yellow

[onewheelkoregro]

On 1/30/2024 at 12:34 AM, BKW said:

Yeah, I managed to do damage to both my CP and KS16X on the same night. It's really depressing, but I have no one to blame but myself.

The worst part of all of this is I have no idea what it is. I've been up all night trying to diagnose the problem and it looks like I won't know until I start buying expensive crap and find out.

I forgot to mention there were some wires disconnected when I went to attach the battery cables back to the terminals. But one was only the alarm, and the other went from the music board to the main board and didn't touch the charging board -- both these I did not notice were unplugged until directly after the pop sound. Immediately I thought it was probably due to the wires, but I'm not sure.

I was told I can replace the surface fuse on the charging board that blew, but it seems complicated in the sense it's a 40A fuse for 134V?

Regardless, going to buy another charging board and if that blows at least I'll have extra 40A fuses that I know will work from the previous board.

Then HOPEFULLY that fixes the issue, but I have a sneaking suspicion it won't because it was beeping long before that part blew, so I have no clue, which sucks...

More feedback would be greatly appreciated if anyone has any in the meantime

What batch Commander Pro do you have?

[BKW]

3 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

What batch Commander Pro do you have?

I can't even remember. V2?

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

What batch Commander Pro do you have?

 

1 hour ago, BKW said:

I can't even remember. V2?

Pretty sure it was all documented in this thread in earlier postings.

From what I remembered, BKW bought it directly from GT King Store on AliExpress. I think BKW got his before everyone else retail in the US.

I would be probably consider it a Version 1 for the US market.

[BKW]

I know this is going to sound unbelievable, but one of the battery cells in the battery pack burst. It must have been the new charge board or something, but it was on and everything seemed fine and then one of the batteries blew on the left side, smoke started coming out and I heard hisses. I took the EUC outside and stripped what I could down to salvage, afraid it was going to go into flames any second (still a lot of valuable stuff on it of course). Super scary experience since I'm in an Manhattan apartment and I have to wheel this thing out in midtown basically.

Long story short, I'm hesitating to call the fire department because I don't want the apartment complex to know (dumb and selfish, i know, but i don't want to be kicked out of the building for this). Obviously, I know I have to act quickly. I take 5-10 minutes indoors to think of the best thing to do, and as I go back outside the CP was gone. I'm relieved in many ways because I'm ready to move on from this hobby due to the expensive nature of it, how obviously dangerous they are (riding and storage), etc. These things should be stored outdoors somewhere, not in an apartment complex in a city. I'm going to slowly sell off the remaining of my EUCs and buy a mechanical bike. I think i'll be happier without the stress of these things being around. It's all good until they fail or something like this happens, and I'm not even that disappointed the CP is gone as I'm ready to move on anyway. I honestly dodged a bullet and the thought of what could have happened, as well as what has been happening lately with my EUCs, has me excited to move on.

Edited February 5 by BKW

[techyiam]

30 minutes ago, BKW said:

Obviously, I know I have to act quickly. I take 5-10 minutes indoors to think of the best thing to do, and as I go back outside the CP was gone.

Someone stole your smoking Commander Pro?

Wouldn't it be easy to locate, because of the smoke and fire.

Those things smoke and burn for a long time.

[BKW]

15 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Someone stole your smoking Commander Pro?

Wouldn't it be easy to locate, because of the smoke and fire.

Those things smoke and burn for a long time.

Initially it was smoking when one of the cells blew. After that it wasn't smoking, but it felt hot.

And like I said, good riddance. I'm not even concerned wanting to track it down. I'm happy it's gone. To fix it would cost at least 1K or more considering it's probably more than the batteries at this point. I could have salvaged more parts, but I'm happy it's gone tbh. I only hope whoever took it doesn't have it go up in flames on them.

On a side note, if anyone wants to buy CNC trolley and handles, let me know lol

Edited February 5 by BKW

[null]

Really terrible, no end to it.. I suspect it must be the same origin as earlier, water ingress.
I don't know how the 16X is organized internally but the 18XL is made so that eventual water can't easily reach the battery packs (they are is a tall edge around) and water will be run down and out at the bottom if the unit. There is even a very slight gap (by having grain texture on the plastic housing) to let it out.

We're not that many to have one here, and one of the other owners had a BMS beep for hours after riding in the rain with a shower cap. The internal mudguard is so minimalistic water still sprays everywhere up there, and there is nothing keeping it from landing on top of the battery cases. Up there we don't even know if there is a gasket since nobody (we know) have opened the battery cases. What we do know from the BMS beep occurence is that it's not perfect.

Luck in bad luck I guess that the battery pack didn't run into full thermal runaway... As for the accidental "disposal".. sucks (good parts!) but at least you're rid. I hope the thieve regrets it but people around dont get to suffer from it.

All my sympathies..

This confirms yet a time that my EBCP won't go out when wet, at all. Too bad really.

I have ordered water ingress detection stickers (the things that go red) and will put them inside all my EUCs as they get opened.

Edited February 5 by null

[BKW]

4 minutes ago, null said:

Really terrible, no end to it.. I suspect it must be the same origin for the CP: water ingress.

We're not that many to have one here, and one of the other owners had a BMS beep for hours after riding in the rain with a shower cap. The internal mudguard is so minimalistic water still spays everywhere up there, and there is nothing keeping it from landing on top of the battery cases. Up there we don't even know if there is a gasket since nobody (we know) have opened the battery cases. What we do know from the BMS beep occurence is that it's not perfect.

Luck in bad luck I guess that the battery pack didn't run into full thermal runaway... As for the accidental "disposal".. sucks (good parts!) but at least you're rid. I hope the thieve regrets it but people around dont get to suffer from it.

All my sympathies..

I have no harsh feelings for whoever took it. The wheel looked stripped down and the top was open with cables exposed. I'm relieved they took it off my hands or else I'd be forced to call the fire department and the building would have found out and might have kicked me out. Honestly, I'm more concerned about if it goes up in flames somewhere else than actually getting it back. It could be anywhere right now. Chances are they probably stripped it and left the batteries somewhere if they were smart.

 

Edited February 5 by BKW

[onewheelkoregro]

5 hours ago, BKW said:

Initially it was smoking when one of the cells blew. After that it wasn't smoking, but it felt hot.

And like I said, good riddance. I'm not even concerned wanting to track it down. I'm happy it's gone. To fix it would cost at least 1K or more considering it's probably more than the batteries at this point. I could have salvaged more parts, but I'm happy it's gone tbh. I only hope whoever took it doesn't have it go up in flames on them.

On a side note, if anyone wants to buy CNC trolley and handles, let me know lol

What color are they? I might buy them any way. Always nice to have back ups on stand by