Weatherproofing the Commander pro?

[null]

I have a Commander pro which have various qualities, weather proofing not being one of them.
There are two main areas of concern: the top part with the logic board, and the battery casing.

The batteries are the most important to me so I will focus on those first.

The casing is made of the outer aluminium panel on one side, with plastic caps / casings holding the battery on the inner side. The joint is a rectangle going all around the battery pack.

As mentioned by Marty rain can infiltrate from the top and reach the battery casing, I would add also from the spray in the wheel well: the inner mud guard is very small and nothing keeps water from reaching the top part of the battery case.

Here we rely on the joint between the aluminium panel and the plastic cases to be sealed. If it was there would be no problem that it got wet. Open design EUCs work like that. However nobody have opened those battery casings and we do not know if the there is a seal. What we do know is the EMA had a BMS beep for hours after riding in a downpour. This is enough for me to worry that the battery packs are not properly sealed.

So I would like to seal the joints of the battery packs with silicone. The border / joint between the plastic and the aluminium has a complex shape with a lip making access to the actual joint difficult. I suppose I might have to put huge amounts of silicone to fill this space. There are also screws / screw holes than might be weak points for water, and should probably be covered in silicone.

Questions:

- Should bathroom / shower type silicone sealant be ok to use?

- I'm not sure if I should try to seal the entire joint, how about the options on the graphic representation?

- Is there any good reason to not do this at all? The battery pack will become hassle to open, but then I hope never to have to open it.

Thank you for any input. (some grabs from Martys video)

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by null

[vikingto]

Hey good post. You're on the right track here, and I'd be curious what you ultimately did.

 

Haven't received my cpro yet (arriving tomorrow morning, can't wait!), but it's the C40 50S version which they've claimed to have things better sealed on this 4th gen upgrade, so we'll see.

 

But yes kitchen and bath silicone is fine, as long as it's 100% silicone. And out of the 4 options you presented, I'd go with the third one. I will most likely do that one in fact, but then add Gore-tex tape to the gapped areas. Because you are correct in that having things too watertight can create issues, just like siding on a house that's too tight. Water or moisture gets in but it has no way to get out, and gets trapped.

The pic is of my S22's power button that I covered with a small segment of gore tape, they also sell it in rolls.

 

I'll follow up what I did once I open up my new ride!

 

 

[onewheelkoregro]

I am getting a commander pro as soon as my bonus comes in. I am curious to see what and where it would be needed as well

[null]

On 1/19/2024 at 4:23 PM, vikingto said:

I'd be curious what you ultimately did

Sadly my conclusion was that for now I just won't take it out when it's wet.
I made and installed some 3d print bearing covers, just ask if you want the files.

The reason is that I did not wish to fiddle with cutting the silicone seal where the battery cables goes to the controller board area. The fact that the "lip" around the battery housings is an inconvenient shape didn't motivate me either.

I will probably do it some day when I have the courage.

One thing that would be helpful and might not requiring full disassembly is making proper internal mudguard, ideally that covers the sides as well.

The current one is so short that when I rode on wet ground with a plastic bag on top of the EUC, water sprayed up on top of the controller housing, under the plastic bag. I do not use the rubber mudguard because ut will just allow water to get sprayed on top of the battery housings anyway.

IMO the very least to do is to extend the internal mudguard to reduce a bit of the spraying upwards.

On 1/19/2024 at 4:23 PM, vikingto said:

Haven't received my cpro yet (arriving tomorrow morning, can't wait!), but it's the C40 50S version which they've claimed to have things better sealed on this 4th gen upgrade, so we'll see.

I'd be curious to know what the improvements consists of, if ever you could share it would be good to know.

Edited January 20 by null

[vikingto]

On 1/20/2024 at 5:45 PM, null said:

One thing that would be helpful and might not requiring full disassembly is making proper internal mudguard, ideally that covers the sides as well.

Yes, was thinking exactly the same. Nothing fancy, 3 pieces printed in tpu 98a (or 95) at 5mm thickness, with the front piece extended 7-10cm towards the front (I like to ride backwards often haha), stuck to the top of the internal mudguard with double stick.

I'll definitely take and apply your bearing covers! Can't hurt, so thanks!

When I opened the board up wires seemed more organized than expected actually. The amount of silicone used at the cable holes seemed a bit excessive, but better than not enough. But not planning on removing until needed.

Noticed the hole for the brake light wasn't treated, so added silicone there. Also I feel like I'd like add a gasket to the perimeter of the board cover, but probably not necessary since the Velcro I installed for easy removal of the stock side bumpers should cover most of it, the other exposed seams just gorilla taped.

Then finally I really want to get ahold of some of these rubber grommets used in later versions of the Master. 2 cells 1 pack installed them in the live cmini teardown seen here at around 1:27:00 

He claims it fits nicely in the mini, and sure would make things easier for cleaning/inspection and tire changes whatnot. Pic below

 

 

[null]

EBCP Bearing cover no cable side.stlEBCP Bearing cover cable side.stl

Here are the bearing covers, modified from @Rawnei s Master covers (not exactly the same dims anywhere). Not super elegant but they should do. There is a split on the cable side to get in on without disconnecting the motor cable (a PITA to work on like that though, and think of having the motor cable on the upper side if you take off the motor)

Regarding mudguard:Ill get to it some day I have the courage, was thinking like you (minus the TPU because my printer isn't very fit (all metal nozzle)). Speaking of which the bearing covers might be modified to also serve as fixation for a lower part of the mudguard (I'd personally want to cover the sides as well). Anyway, just thinking out loud.

Edited January 24 by null

[vikingto]

22 hours ago, null said:

Speaking of which the bearing covers might be modified to also serve as fixation for a lower part of the mudguard

I think I understand what you're saying, but won't pulled the sides apart and install your covers until my new tire arrives.  Thanks for those bearing covers btw, I've been using @Rawnei's bearing covers on my S22 after stock bearings went to shit.  I'll post the mudguard extensions here once I have them installed with the correct size, with pics.

[onewheelkoregro]

When I get mine. Sprayed it on my 16x motherboard and everything on the top. Rode it through rain multiple times with no issue.

[vikingto]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:11 PM, onewheelkoregro said:

Sprayed it on my 16x motherboard and everything on the top. Rode it through rain multiple times with no issue.

So I purchased that exact spray to do up my cpro with, but when I pulled the cover to do it, the board was already thoroughly sprayed from the factory. I've been told it's common practice with the newer wheels.

 

[Planemo]

9 hours ago, vikingto said:

So I purchased that exact spray to do up my cpro with, but when I pulled the cover to do it, the board was already thoroughly sprayed from the factory. I've been told it's common practice with the newer wheels.

 

Interesting...I never knew the CP used ALL the capacitor locations, unlike the EX30 which has 3 missing...makes me wonder whether they really should be there and Begode simply decided it was 'still just about OK' to remove them in order to allow fitment of the EX screen directly on top...

[Planemo]

On 1/19/2024 at 3:23 PM, vikingto said:

But yes kitchen and bath silicone is fine, as long as it's 100% silicone.

Yeah be careful with silicone sealant choice. Many give off acetic acid during curing which can corrode circuitry. I would only ever use specific electronics grade silicone, it's a little more expensive but worth it for peace of mind.

[onewheelkoregro]

16 hours ago, vikingto said:

So I purchased that exact spray to do up my cpro with, but when I pulled the cover to do it, the board was already thoroughly sprayed from the factory. I've been told it's common practice with the newer wheels.

 

One thing less I have to do! I can't wait to get mine

[vikingto]

12 hours ago, Planemo said:

Yeah be careful with silicone sealant choice. Many give off acetic acid during curing which can corrode circuitry. I would only ever use specific electronics grade silicone, it's a little more expensive but worth it for peace of mind.

Yes, since writing that earlier post I read about dielectric silicone, which I was told it's what most of the manufacturer are using. So that'll be a new addition to my wheel garage, table, shop.

[vikingto]

13 hours ago, Planemo said:

Interesting...I never knew the CP used ALL the capacitor locations, unlike the EX30 which has 3 missing...makes me wonder whether they really should be there and Begode simply decided it was 'still just about OK' to remove them in order to allow fitment of the EX screen directly on top...

So my wheel is the cpro C40 50s variant, which is essentially an EX30 dressed as a commander pro. But the board is beefier which is cool too.

I so want to get this wheel out on the road, as I haven't taken it outside yet. Trying to hold off until the spring showers wash the salt and grime away, but it's really hard. The power of this wheel is just begging to be unleashed.

[Planemo]

Salt, grime and water is a concoction that should not be underestimated. I have ridden enough motorcycles throughout UK winters to see the destruction it causes. Even one season has destroyed the finish on most of my MC's with corrosion and thats with the big names - Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha and even Honda. Seeing riders on EUC's running beaches makes my heart weep.

Yeah interesting re the board caps, I never knew. It does invoke the 'feelgood blanket' I have to say.

[techyiam]

7 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Even one season has destroyed the finish on most of my MC's with corrosion and thats with the big names - Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha and even Honda.

I can concur. One winter, and my Honda was never the same. Salt is brutal.

[Planemo]

11 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I can concur. One winter, and my Honda was never the same. Salt is brutal.

Absolutely mate. I got 3 years out of a brand new Honda maxi scooter and it was done. Write off despite having only 25k miles. Similar with my Suzuki GS500, Kawasaki GPZ500 and Yam XT660. Everything was corroded beyond repair. And as a long time saltwater sailor it all becomes a bit of a wake up call. Even stainless thats low grade gets hammered, but tbf the decent stainless stuff (bloody expensive) lasts really well. I replaced a load of rigging fixings on a boat with top quality stuff and it looked as good as new 5 years later despite being battered with the best that the UK coast could give it. Mightily impressed but I think we are some way from that sort of build quality on EUC's.

@vikingto, sit it out. I know it's hard. I am in exactly the same boat. I don't ride from October to March most years. But I have too much mechanical sympathy for my EUC or my pushbikes to do otherwise. Find another hobby to pass the time. I happen to indulge in making music with an Akai MPC 

 

[vikingto]

1 hour ago, Planemo said:

Find another hobby to pass the time. I happen to indulge in making music with an Akai MPC

That's where it's at, making music. Really cool. I'd normally be consumed by skiing right now, but lack of snow and warm temps have put a bit of a hamper on that this season. 👎👎

[Funky]

Could always use breathable waterproof tape. (Batteries are protected and same time still can breathe, any trapped moisture can evaporate)

At least over the "holes", or go crazy and pack whole battery in that stuff.  

[null]

On 1/31/2024 at 12:10 PM, Funky said:

breathable waterproof tape

Thanks for the tip, might be useful around the motherboard housing. The contour of the battery packs is much too complex / messy for tape sadly.

[null]

You might have followed BKWs misadventures with his EBCP after light rain: fried board, then battery thermal runaway.

We're not that many to have this EUC, and there are already two cases (that I know of) of the batteries being affected by rain.
We knew for the motherboard area (Marty, eevees) but that doesn't bother me as much as for the batteries, which no-one had properly inspected AFAIK.

I will use this as a reminder to not ride in the rain, at all, if you can't afford to have the wheel go up in flames.
At least not without having seriously protected the battery cases. (Which looks like a PITA, hence why I haven't done it yet)

Edited February 5 by null

[onewheelkoregro]

4 hours ago, null said:

You might have followed BKWs misadventures with his EBCP after light rain: fried board, then battery thermal runaway.

We're not that many to have this EUC, and there are already two cases (that I know of) of the batteries being affected by rain.
We knew for the motherboard area (Marty, eevees) but that doesn't bother me as much as for the batteries, which no-one had properly inspected AFAIK.

I will use this as a reminder to not ride in the rain, at all, if you can't afford to have the wheel go up in flames.
At least not without having seriously protected the battery cases. (Which looks like a PITA, hence why I haven't done it yet)

Probably just going to silicone the battery cases as described above and then spray all the circuits with that Ducky stuff, and if it does rain will put a shower cap over the unit just to be safe. I really can't avoid riding in the rain as the EUC is my main transportation rain, sleet, snow, or shine

[null]

Totally get you, I dislike that a EUC could not go in certain weather; it's an outdoor vehicle and weather is not always predictable. I'm lucky to have a Sherman as daily driver, but would like to have the option of the EBCP, especially to go far (weather increasingly uncertain), that was half the point of the suspensions to me.

I wish you good luck and if you could share some pictures it would be nice.

[onewheelkoregro]

1 hour ago, null said:

Totally get you, I dislike that a EUC could not go in certain weather; it's an outdoor vehicle and weather is not always predictable. I'm lucky to have a Sherman as daily driver, but would like to have the option of the EBCP, especially to go far (weather increasingly uncertain), that was half the point of the suspensions to me.

I wish you good luck and if you could share some pictures it would be nice.

Hopefully my bonus comes in next check as well. I have modded all of my previous EUCs. Mostly cosmetic mods admittedly but I will share pictures maybe even upload a video to youtube because the EBCP material is severely lacking except for Marty Becke's videos

[null]

From this video still we can see the side panels at least have a grove at the joint. Whether there is a gasket there, or if it is efficient (apparently not) is another matter, but at least this means that is someone is motivated enough to remove the plastic covers, it should be possible to silicone that grove. (also, the screw posts are outside the joint, good)