What are your thoughts on the Adventure?

[novazeus]

i doubt any wheel would fit all my needs on this 325 acre cattle ranch. so i get something as close to getting the job done and then make the wheel better. i don't re-invent the wheel. i thought ww was right on the money except the torque/flicking thing. he couldn't do that if the tire was at 40psi.

so in that vein, here's what i'm doing/done. took the seat and trolley handle off. saved 2 pounds at the very top of this now 116 pound wheel.

 

[stizl]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

The lines between brand loyalty, fanboyism and just brand recognition are very blurred. But just my experience jumping from the MSX to the V11 showed me that the V11 was vastly better designed, better made, rides hugely better, and had numerous features the MSX didn’t have. Many of which other brands still don’t have. Looking at all wheels from this new perspective of what I like my wheel to have, limits the wheels that interest me to only Inmotion wheels. In that sense the V11 in my case has clearly brought them another sale. Others than Inmotion just don’t tick nearly enough boxes for me.

 People’s experience with a brand generally sticks very tightly. If one had a V12 from a bad batch, one might never buy an Inmotion again. Just like I wouldn’t ever buy any KingSong no matter how perfect a wheel they’d make, all because they had the audacity to do a LockSong on all their honest customers since day one.

Do they really share their sales numbers that precisely? And I thought  AlienRides don’t even sell the V11?

 

If the sales on their models wouldn’t affect the sales on their other models, this wouldn’t be needed. If that really were the case, the first group would sell just as well no matter if the manufacturer takes part in groups 2 or 3. But I really don’t think that’s how it goes.

Just the fact that people hear about the V13 as a well made and overengineered, stupidly fast yet reliable wheel, of course it leaves an impression that reflects to their personal image of the brand. And I believe that was partially the point of the whole V13.

If any EUC manufacturer would have that in mind, they would at least try to compete in the “first wheel” category with the A2. Currently they don’t, and they just keep selling models designed up to 6 years ago.

 But the EUC manufacturers don’t seem to follow other basic rules of business and marketing either, so it’s very hard to predict or assess the wheel models’ success based on their actions. Again I believe this to be because of the cultural wall between western and eastern countries and their customs.

Also, besides Begode not really having a serious “first wheel” category, Veteran has none at all. Having personally had (admittedly just) one wheel from each of the big four manufacturers, with my only Begode being an MTen4 (because it is truly IMO the best “yard wheel” for putting out and fetching my trash and recycling cans to/from the curb at the base of my ridiculously steep and long driveway, no joke…also, my 7-year old loves it)…, at this point I would only seriously consider shelling out ~$3k+ for either an Inmotion or Veteran. 

Granted, I had higher-end wheels from these two manufacturers than the other two, but I spent 15 years of my life as a technician working on Japanese and Italian motorcycles before going back to school and starting over as a engineer working in automation.

From my perspective, the difference in design, execution, and QC is quite evident and worthy of my brand loyalty (loyalties). As they say in sports, “there are levels to this game”. Achieving or exceeding parity on the spec sheet isn't the same as achieving it in execution. 

[mrelwood]

@stizl, exactly. I truly see where you’re coming from.

8 minutes ago, stizl said:

Achieving or exceeding parity on the spec sheet isn't the same as achieving it in execution. 

I was just reading the Extreme thread. One guy had gone out of his lengths to test and measure various shocks on it. Result: the advertised 130mm suspension travel is actually 105-110mm at best. And I think even that required a shock replacement. 105mm is of course not bad by any means, it’s just not even very close to what was advertised. What does that tell you about their advertising ethics and other specs?

Btw, I measured V11’s advertised 80mm suspension travel to be closer to 90mm.

Edited September 22, 2023 by mrelwood

[M1thr4ndr]

On 9/19/2023 at 10:10 AM, techyiam said:

Actually, the V11 is a good counter example to the point you are making.

On YouTube, if you do a search for a specific wheel, and then sort by upload date, you will see that the V11 is a very active topic. 

The V12 is very active also. Ditto on Facebook.

Wheels such as the Begode T3 is basically dead.

Even the S18 is not that active.

Maybe on this forum website the V11 is not that active, but on the other social media platforms, it is very much talked about.

Fast wheels are hot topics too.

Perhaps. It depends on the individual rider and how capable the wheel is, and where and how one rides it. On the right wheel, 45 mph is fast for current euc standard for many riders, but with all the risks mitigated, it can be managed. People do the same on motorcycles, except at much, much higher speeds. It can be done within acceptable risks if one knows how.

Inmotion came out with the V11, then the V12, and both became best sellers, and they still are. It appears, the S18 was losing sales to the V11, so Kingsong counters with the S16. But Inmotion would like to keeps its crown, so they are coming out the V11Y.

However, there are other electric wheel market segments that can be profitable, even if they don't sell as many. These more premium wheels cost more, and are more capable. Leaper Kim caters to this market segment and appears to be doing well. So what do you think the other manufacturers going to do. If there is profit to be made, they are going to go after that market segment. Kingsong is rumoured to be coming out with an all new bigger, heavier, and faster wheel.

And the S16 and S19 development cost most likely will not be as high as the development cost for the F-Series wheel, me thinks.

For businesses, profits is the driving force. For money invested, people expects reasonable returns for their investment.

Begode has recently came out with the mten4, and A2. Do you think the development costs of these two wheels surpassed the development cost of the Hero, EX20S, Master, EX30, and Extreme, and up and coming Extreme 30. If profits from sales aren't there, how does Begode justifies going down this route.

The same thing can be said about Inmotion's V13 and Adventure (vs V11Y), and Kingsong F-Series (vs S19, S16).

Action speaks louder than words.

I thought best selling car in north america is F150 not corolla

[stizl]

10 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I was just reading the Extreme thread. One guy had gone out of his lengths to test and measure various shocks on it. Result: the advertised 130mm suspension travel is actually 105-110mm at best. And I think even that required a shock replacement. 105mm is of course not bad by any means, it’s just not even very close to what was advertised. What does that tell you about their advertising ethics and other specs?

Btw, I measured V11’s advertised 80mm suspension travel to be closer to 90mm.

I also read that and am quite disappointed. According to @onkeldanuel in that thread (who seems very transparent to me and has been helpful with technical posts on the Sherman-S), the travel in the Extreme’s “hard” position may even be under 100mm and that the soft position is essentially unusable as sags very deeply and it blows through its travel regardless of settings. That said, he still really loves the wheel  

Although the manufacturers often exaggerate their specs (+5 to 10% top speed via speedometer “calibration”, range claims, etc.), claiming such a huge difference in travel than actual is egregious. It is really the only spec that stands out on the Extreme vs the others in this category too. 

Your V11 travel vs S18 travel is another example.  Kingsong spec is 100mm, but it is 80mm to the rubber bumpstops.  The stops are soft and I haven’t tried removing them, but I’m 100% positive that they don’t compress to 0mm thick, so actual S18 travel is likely more like 90mm, including compressing the stops.  Yet, Kingsong “won” the spec sheet by having 20mm more travel on paper.  

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by stizl

[onkeldanuel]

On 9/22/2023 at 2:11 PM, stizl said:

I also read that and am quite disappointed. According to @onkeldanuel in that thread (who seems very transparent to me and has been helpful with technical posts on the Sherman-S), the travel in the Extreme’s “hard” position may even be under 100mm and that the soft position is essentially unusable as sags very deeply and it blows through its travel regardless of settings. That said, he still really loves the wheel  

Yeah indeed the softhole in my opinion is absolutely unusable ....perhaps with a 100lbs rider it might be good but for no one else.

Now Begode will come up with an 1300lb spring to solve this and then it will work i guess...now the highest available spring is 800lb and its waay to weak....

(I dont know if such an high force is good for an coilshock tho...or perhaps it works, really dont know)

And yeah i love the wheel and the suspension in hard hole with about 100mm wheeltravel very much (but with fox coilshock tho), feels really good (for me on par with S22 with ningningsliders and aftermarket-shock Vivid Air which i had before) 

- The Extreme suspension with my setup feels a little more sporty (but plush) if this makes sense , S22 more like a Cadillac 

I had an Sherman S too but that was not the kind of feel i like (hasnt fitted my more offroad riding style, also in regards of suspension)

Edited September 24, 2023 by onkeldanuel

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, onkeldanuel said:

- The Extreme suspension with my setup feels a little more sporty (but plush) if this makes sense , S22 more like a Cadillac 

Does the S22 feel significantly more stable and planted for on-road riding than the Extreme up to 70 km/h? Thanks.

[onkeldanuel]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Does the S22 feel significantly more stable and planted for on-road riding than the Extreme up to 70 km/h? Thanks.

I cant say for 100%, there are many variables. The tire choice and for example suspension height changes on the S22 make more of a difference to me then the two wheels feel different regarding stable feel at speed.....

So i would say the difference might be marginal but likely there due to 16 vs 18 inch wheelclass 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, onkeldanuel said:

So i would say the difference might be marginal but likely there due to 16 vs 18 inch wheelclass 

You are quite right about the various factors at play.

I was trying to gauge how much stability does the 20" wheel give to the S22 over the Extreme's 16".

I suppose one configuration would be to compare them in stock form. 

[onkeldanuel]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

You are quite right about the various factors at play.

I was trying to gauge how much stability does the 20" wheel give to the S22 over the Extreme's 16".

I suppose one configuration would be to compare them in stock form. 

Hard to say, i have ridden the Extreme at 70kph gps (already -9% corrected) on gravel and wasnt afraid at all , the S22 max is 65gps, so all good , both are stable, the heavier SS feels more planted then them both of course, but nothing major 

Edited September 24, 2023 by onkeldanuel

[techyiam]

45 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said:

Hard to say, i have ridden the Extreme at 70kph gps (already -9% corrected) on gravel and wasnt afraid at all , the S22 max is 65gps, so all good , both are stable, the heavier SS feels more planted then them both of course, but nothing major 

Thanks, if you have gone 70+ km/h indicated on gravel and felt comfortable, that is good.

I didn't know the Sherman S was that stable. Good to know.

From an on-road riding perspective, how would you compare the Extreme to the S22, an upgrade, about the same, or a downgrade? Thanks.

[onkeldanuel]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Thanks, if you have gone 70+ km/h indicated on gravel and felt comfortable, that is good.

I didn't know the Sherman S was that stable. Good to know.

From an on-road riding perspective, how would you compare the Extreme to the S22, an upgrade, about the same, or a downgrade? Thanks.

Sherman S is one of if not the most stable wheel at speed for sure

- I would say S22 and Extreme are nearly the same when it comes to onroad experience (I was prepared for some sketchy feel because of the 16 inch Wheel im not used too since 4 years but it wasnt the case at all)

The Extreme is a little more nimble all around and has (clearly) more torque and is about 10kph faster in safe speed....

The Torque and nimbleness matters more for offroad/uphill riding tho...

For me they are equal what the suspension is able to do...

Both great wheels imo..

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by onkeldanuel

[techyiam]

3 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said:

I would say nearly the same when it comes to onroad experience

The Extreme is a little more nimble all around and has (clearly) more torque and is about 10kph faster in safe speed....

The Torque and nimbleness matters more for offroad/uphill riding tho...

For me they are equal what the suspension is able to do...

Both great wheels imo..

Thanks, appreciate you opinion.

[onkeldanuel]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

Thanks, appreciate you opinion.

Youre welcome,  do you ride an S22 now? 

[techyiam]

18 hours ago, onkeldanuel said:

Youre welcome,  do you ride an S22 now? 

I don't currently ride an S22.

I have a T3, V12, and an Abrams. I mainly ride the Abrams. And I am looking to get a suspension wheel for my next wheel.

The Abrams checks a lot of boxes for me. The few boxes that are not checked include those times when the roads are clear of traffic, and I want to ride on them at car speeds.

On smooth roads, I am very happy with my Abrams. But most roads around here are not smooth. Additionally, at a night on unfamiliar roads, encountering large bumps or potholes, etc can be jolting, and unsafe. I don't feel secure enough.

My current idea is to get a 2220 WH or 2400 Wh 4P wheel for now and see how it goes. Then, depending on how it turns out, I may or may not get a 3600+ Wh 22" wheel.

Moreover, I am not considering the Patton for my next wheel since if I consider getting the Patton, then I also have to consider the Adventure, which means also the Kingsong F-series wheel. This will probably going take me to the mid 2024 to early 2025 timeframe. Also, by then the new 22", hydraulic suspension Challenger could be out too. I don't want to wait that long before getting a suspension wheel.

So in the interim, I decided to get either the S22 from eevees, or the Extreme at a discounted price. I am hoping that both of these wheels are stable and planted enough at 70 km/h speed. At this time, realistically, the 70 km/h is only for headroom. It will take time to build up slowly.

The cost of the S22 + Hou NingNing sliders cost about the same as the Extreme.

I have test ridden the S22, and I really like the ride quality and characteristics. However, the motor performance was totally gutless. Mind you, this was a demo wheel, I believe, without firmware update. In watching many YouTube videos, I believe the motor performance should be OK.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by techyiam

[onkeldanuel]

10 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I don't currently ride an S22.

I have a T3, V12, and an Abrams. I mainly ride the Abrams. And I am looking to get a suspension wheel for my next wheel.

The Abrams checks a lot of boxes for me. A few that don't include those times when the roads are clear of traffic, and I want to ride on them at car speeds.

On smooth roads, I am very happy with my Abrams. But most roads around here are not smooth. Additionally, at a night on unfamiliar roads, encountering large bumps or potholes, etc can be jolting, and unsafe. I don't feel secure enough.

My current idea is to get a 2220 WH or 2400 Wh 4P wheel for now and see how it goes. Then, depending on how it turns out, I may or may not get a 3600+ Wh 22" wheel.

Moreover, I am not considering the Patton for my next wheel since if I consider getting the Patton, then I also have to consider the Adventure, which means also the Kingsong F-series wheel. This will probably going take me to the mid 2024 to early 2025 timeframe. Also, by then the new 22", hydraulic suspension Challenger could be out too. I don't want to wait that long before getting a suspension wheel.

So in the interim, I decided to get either the S22 from eevees, or the Extreme at a discounted price. I am hoping that both of these wheels are stable and planted enough at 70 km/h speed. At this time, realistically, the 70 km/h is only for headroom. It will take time to build up slowly.

The cost of the S22 + Hou NingNing sliders cost about the same as the Extreme.

I have test ridden the S22, and I really like the ride quality and characteristics. However, the motor performance was totally gutless. Mind you, this was a demo wheel, I believe, without firmware update. In watching many YouTube videos, I believe the motor performance should be OK.

 

 

S22 newest (GF) Pro Motor should be good enough i guess yes, even the standard non pro motor is good, just avoid by any means the HH Promotor because the bearing failure rate is ridicoulus high it seems (but yes you need 200$ additionally ningning sliders for sure)

another possibility: i bought the Extreme at Begode factory directly, if this works out for you then i would do this, price is most likely unbeatable 

Edited September 24, 2023 by onkeldanuel

[techyiam]

18 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said:

S22 newest (GF) Pro Motor should be good enough i guess yes, even the standard non pro motor is good, just avoid by any means the HH Promotor because the bearing failure rate is ridicoulus high it seems (but yes you need 200$ additionally ningning sliders for sure)

 

19 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said:

another possibility: i bought the Extreme at Begode factory directly, if this works out for you then i would do this, price is most likely unbeatable 

If you don't mind, how does one go about doing this. What is the minimal unit order?

Thanks for the tips. Much appreciated.

 

[onkeldanuel]

55 minutes ago, techyiam said:

 

If you don't mind, how does one go about doing this. What is the minimal unit order?

Thanks for the tips. Much appreciated.

 

You can order 1 single unit, no Problem, will send you pm

[Jonah Hax]

2 hours ago, onkeldanuel said:

You can order 1 single unit, no Problem, will send you pm

Can you send me PM also?
 

[Unventor]

Really? So now sale of other brands are the discussion of an Inmotion topic? 

How come it is so hard for GW spin off brands to keep discussions in their related topics? 

Please respect the topic on the forum. 

[Eyss]

On 9/26/2023 at 6:27 AM, Unventor said:

How come it is so hard for GW spin off brands to keep discussions in their related topics? 

You can understand people's confusion since begode is mentioned a lot by even the diehard inmotion riders. Of course, only negative comparisons are on topic and positive ones are definitely off topic. 

 

On 9/22/2023 at 9:53 AM, mrelwood said:

What does that tell you about their advertising ethics and other specs?

Companies shouldn't lie, but I'd rather they lie about suspension travel than IP ratings. The v13 is the only wheel I've had malfunction after riding light rain (lights, sound, display stop working). A local rider had his controller die after water go in through the power button supposedly.

[mrelwood]

59 minutes ago, Eyss said:

The v13 is the only wheel I've had malfunction after riding light rain (lights, sound, display stop working). A local rider had his controller die after water go in through the power button supposedly.

Does that happen with all V13 units out there?

[Eyss]

19 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Does that happen with all V13 units out there?

I posted the issue to the Facebook group and was told it's a common issue, so I assume so?

There was a video by inmotion on how to install a screen protector, but when I looked just now they've removed it. 

I did find this video though which makes it seem like it's not a issue. 

https://youtu.be/OA3DwKk8Mvs?si=xeM0yXIa93vnVJtd

[novazeus]

i

1 hour ago, Eyss said:

local rider had his controller die after water go in through the power button supposedly.

i bet this screen protector tossed in my new v13 stuff is suppose to go over the display and power button.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

7 hours ago, Eyss said:

I did find this video though which makes it seem like it's not a issue. 

There is a gasket at the base of the screen, if the screen is screwed down properly, then it resists water without issue. I feel like some have come from the factory without the proper torque applied to these screws causing water to get past and onto the main controller board below. Mine was taken apart after the first 10 miles because i had a board failure right off the bat so i have had no issues with water intrusion after re-assembly. Others have though, so i can only postulate that this is the issue. I have ridden in heavy downpours and as you saw, water tested it. No issues whatsoever.