Did anyone try the newest S18 with hollow motor?

[Guillaume_k]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm curious to hear about the newest (v3?) version of the S18 featuring the new hollow motor and honeycomb pedals (as seen here).

I couldn't find any reviews on Youtube or elsewhere. This new version seems interesting as the new motor supposedly extends range [EDIT: misunderstanding on my side as previous marketing material stated 100km also ~by about 40% (from 70 to 100km)~], and the new pedals seem better than the typical old-fashioned sandpaper ones.

Thanks! 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Guillaume_k

[Robse]

100 km with 1110 Wh?  - perhaps if you limp the last 25 km at 12 kmph. Below the data, first S18, then 16X.  Main difference is Batt Capcity and wheel size.  Wether the motor is hollow bore or not does not give 40% extra range / power.  My experience is that hollow bore motors tend to eat up the e-juice faster ;-)     Btw, the 16X has a range of 150 km.  In real life that's 95 km on a good day, sunshine, no wind, lightweight rider, and no speeding at all.

[Guillaume_k]

2 hours ago, Robse said:

100 km with 1110 Wh

I’m sceptical, too. In marketing speak at least, that’s their claim. Kingsong explains that their hollow motor is more economical on their product page : https://www.kingsong.com/products/ks-s18-18-inch-series

They show supposed gains in range and energy efficiency… Could be marketing BS, hence my question to the community .

The 70km range advertised for the previous model wasn’t real either but comparing claimed range, the difference between 70 and 100 is +42%. I’m curious to know how real life performance compares.

As for the product page on oneride.eu you screenshot, my best guess is that they copied the specs of previous models when uploading the new product page.  Kingsong themselves claim ~100km.

 

Anyway, that’s my question for anyone who actually bought this new version. What’s the range like in the real world?
 

Thanks!

[Robse]

2 hours ago, Guillaume_k said:

I’m sceptical, too. In marketing speak at least, that’s their claim. Kingsong explains that their hollow motor is more economical on their product page : https://www.kingsong.com/products/ks-s18-18-inch-series

They show supposed gains in range and energy efficiency… Could be marketing BS, hence my question to the community

there is to much BS in that info from KS . Like this, aint no hill you can't climb.... and if it's more than 35⁰ , then just go buy the S22 .....

[ffontana]

7 hours ago, Guillaume_k said:

Hi everyone,

 

I'm curious to hear about the newest (v3?) version of the S18 featuring the new hollow motor and honeycomb pedals (as seen here).

I couldn't find any reviews on Youtube or elsewhere. This new version seems interesting as the new motor supposedly extends range by about 40% (from 70 to 100km), and the new pedals seem better than the typical old-fashioned sandpaper ones.

Thanks! 

I think the old model also had 100km range in commercial specifications.

And also says 100mm suspension travel and if you measure max and min positions there's only 80mm travel (the rest 20mm is the bumper to avoid  end suspension travel crashes)

[Robse]

@The Brahan Seer what is your best (useable) range on the S18?

[The Brahan Seer]

20 minutes ago, Robse said:

what is your best (useable) range on the S18?

Going around 15Mph gives 40 Miles (65Kms)

20-25Mph around 20 Miles 100% battery down to 60% but really need to drop speed below 20 by this time or take it very carefully. 75Kg Rider with gear.

Edited July 4, 2023 by The Brahan Seer
Yes we are probably the only country that mixes Metric with Imperial like this.

[Guillaume_k]

20 hours ago, ffontana said:

I think the old model also had 100km range in commercial specifications.

Looks like you're right. I might have been confused by different values present on different specs sheets across the web. But as you suggest, I could find old marketing material from KS advertising 100km of range for previous versions of the wheel. Some retailers reported 70. Maybe @Kingsong Customer Support can provide us with details on the range gains of the new hollow motor S18 as compared to previous versions?

[mrelwood]

On 7/5/2023 at 8:00 PM, Guillaume_k said:

confused by different values present on different specs sheets across the web.

That is a common problem, for other specs as well.

 But any range values represented by the manufacturers should be just ignored across the board. A Wh is a Wh, and the difference in efficiency between EUCs is very small. Some wheels do let you use the battery a bit deeper which gives a bit more range at the last percentages, but people rarely ride the battery that empty anyway. So just look at the Wh value, and consider the wheel’s weight.

[Guillaume_k]

Thanks for your comments. I guess I’m definitely in the underserved section of the market. I’m reasonably happy with my 16s for commuting and city riding but it’s a very basic wheel (and slow) when compared to newer models. I still enjoy 70km of range on a 840Wh battery though…

So my dilemma is that I’d love a suspended wheel for comfort and light offroad rides (Helsinki has a fantastic dirt path network all around the city), but still want reliability and a light weight wheel. I have no appeal for huge wheels. The S18 seems to be the « less bad » compromise as it’s still the lighter suspended wheel out there. I tried out the V11 but don’t like it’s suspension. The Begode A2 has other flaws (tyre not ideal for the city, large openings on the sides, also short range, no trolley handle which is a deal killer to me) and I’m wary of Begode products given their history.

So I might get this latest version on the S18 to help me wait a few years before manufacturers come up with better wheels for my needs. Also in hope that early S18 quality problems were sorted out as KS made more of these.

[ride INMOTION]

1 hour ago, Guillaume_k said:

Thanks for your comments. I guess I’m definitely in the underserved section of the market. I’m reasonably happy with my 16s for commuting and city riding but it’s a very basic wheel (and slow) when compared to newer models. I still enjoy 70km of range on a 840Wh battery though…

So my dilemma is that I’d love a suspended wheel for comfort and light offroad rides (Helsinki has a fantastic dirt path network all around the city), but still want reliability and a light weight wheel. I have no appeal for huge wheels. The S18 seems to be the « less bad » compromise as it’s still the lighter suspended wheel out there. I tried out the V11 but don’t like it’s suspension. The Begode A2 has other flaws (tyre not ideal for the city, large openings on the sides, also short range, no trolley handle which is a deal killer to me) and I’m wary of Begode products given their history.

So I might get this latest version on the S18 to help me wait a few years before manufacturers come up with better wheels for my needs. Also in hope that early S18 quality problems were sorted out as KS made more of these.

@Guillaume_k I understand your need for such a city commuting wheel,i will let our engineers know this .

could you take minutes of video of your usually riding usage scenario ? thanks 

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Guillaume_k said:

So my dilemma is that I’d love a suspended wheel for comfort and light offroad rides (Helsinki has a fantastic dirt path network all around the city), but still want reliability and a light weight wheel. I have no appeal for huge wheels.

How light? How much are you willing to pay?

[Guillaume_k]

25ish kg and below 2500 EUR/ 3600CAD (with tax)

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

How light? How much are you willing to pay?

 

[Guillaume_k]

1 hour ago, Kingsong Customer Support said:

could you take minutes of video of your usually riding usage scenario ? thanks 

Thanks. Will do.

About the s18, can you please give a bit more details on the updates besides the obvious pedal change and hollow motor? Your site shows a series of unlabelled graphs  advertising range improvements but the indicated range didn't change in the specs sheet if compared to previous versions.

Like in software, seeing what was actually changed from a batch to another in "developer notes" would be great to help make purchasing decisions.

[techyiam]

19 minutes ago, Guillaume_k said:

25ish kg and below 2500 EUR/ 3600CAD (with tax)

The S18 weighs about 22 kg, and costs about $2300 before tax. 

How would you spec this wheel differently?

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by techyiam

[Guillaume_k]

Thanks @techyiam this is why I consider it, even if the wheel is pretty old on the rapidly developing EUC market. And it's also why I have hopes that this refresh brings a bit more range and maybe torque, and why I'm hoping to get more details. Reviewers don't seem interested into giving a 3 years old wheel another look, considering the updates minor (I've contacted some of them).

I didn't have the chance to ride it yet so giving an opinion on specs improvements would be a bit silly. I'll be in Paris again soon and there are shops which may receive the new version soon (no stores in Finland afaik). In the meantime, all I could do was binge on youtube videos and go through forum threads often expressing mixed opinions. I know that a perfect wheel does not exist and I don't mind buying one while I wait for better options to come to the market later. I guess what I want does not exist yet, which means basically the S18 specs but with an *actual* 70km range (which my 16S give me), user facing screen with speedo/battery indicator, good assembly quality (not having pads and mud guards falling off as I've seen in many videos) and better shell sturdiness as this wheel will be put on trains, carried in stairs and occasionally bumped, and a better trolley handle design.

In a nutshell I want a unicorn that rides comfortably for my commutes and allows me to go on (not too harsh) trails during the week ends. The solution might be to get 2 wheels...

Edited July 7, 2023 by Guillaume_k

[OldFartRides]

FWIW, there are buyer reviews at the bottom of the s18 blurb on Ewheels website. One from ten months ago gripes about the poorly assembled suspension linkage. Many of the reviews were positive, though.

Best,

[mrelwood]

15 hours ago, Guillaume_k said:

I tried out the V11 but don’t like it’s suspension

Just to make sure, was the suspension pumped for your weight? It really makes a night and day difference both in the suspension behavior as well as the riding height.

12 hours ago, techyiam said:

The S18 weighs about 22 kg

I think 22kg was the S18 prototype weight, which increased to 25.5kg for the production model.

[ride INMOTION]

23 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Just to make sure, was the suspension pumped for your weight? It really makes a night and day difference both in the suspension behavior as well as the riding height.

I think 22kg was the S18 prototype weight, which increased to 25.5kg for the production model.

yes ,25kg 

[Guillaume_k]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Just to make sure, was the suspension pumped for your weight? It really makes a night and day difference both in the suspension behavior as well as the riding height.

Can be a factor indeed. I tried out a friend's wheel who is heavier than me. I'll give it another go. Thanks!

[Guillaume_k]

So, I got one of these newest S18s. And it seems I got a lemon.

The wheel was from a recent batch, produced last April. It is the version advertised on KS's website with new hollow motor and honeycomb pedals. I got it last Friday.

I rode it for about 50km with no issues. It actually was a delight to ride and I was really happy about the wheel's behaviour and suspension setting. Then after I came back from a (light) off-road section I noticed a slight, regular plastic clacking noise. Not sure if if was the same as described in this thread. It felt more like it was coming from the right side of the fender. I first thought I had caught gravel or a small piece of wood but the noise persisted. Funnily enough the noise wasn't present at all when riding backwards. I then rode the wheel in reverse (suspension before me) to confirm and after a few hundred meters, still no sound. It came back quickly when resuming riding normally. I did not crash the wheel in any fashion. Just regular riding, no wild jumps or anything.

Another weird thing during these first 50km was motor purring (low frequency noise and vibration) during one or two harder stops. I only lasted for a second or two. Thinking it was overcurrent protection doing it's job, I forgot about it. I rode an other 50 km or so without any other problems other than the slight clacking sound.

The real bummer came this morning as you can see in the video.

 

Out of nowhere, the wheel started to make this purring noise. I caught it on video immediately. After I had stopped, there was a high pitch electrical noise. I tried to ride again but as soon as I applied pressure on the pedals, the wheel cut out.

Since then, I tried re-flashing the wheel with the latest (222) firmware (on which it already was) using the trick to start it while upside down but this didn't help. Testing it indoors, the wheel first balances and would behave normally if I'm careful. But if I do the pendulum, the purring would come back after a few back and forth movements and then the wheel would loose balance for a second before stabilising again. In other words, it's unrideable... yeah...

My reasoning for this purchase was that this model has been in production for 3+ years now and that KS should have gotten around to making them properly. cc @Kingsong Customer Support

I contacted the seller. Let's see how this goes.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Guillaume_k

[Punxatawneyjoe]

It's making the same sound as others have made with loose or broken axle bolts.

[Guillaume_k]

idk. I just checked and axle bolts are tight. If I start up the wheel, it balances fine and the motor does not make that weird noise when I trolley it around or even stand on it or ride slowly. It comes when more power is required. 

[OldFartRides]

I would suggest very carefully resting one side of the wheel on the edge of a step so you can free spin the wheel in both directions. The fender clearance is pretty tight on this wheel. Possibly tire rubbing due to axle shift/ mis-alignment. 
When these are assembled, ( at least in the past) they use janky little washers to align the axle. 

[Guillaume_k]

Thanks for your suggestion @OldFartRides but this seems to be a motor/controller issue. The tyre does not rub against the fender at all as I could verify by lifting the wheel and have it spin both ways. Trouble occurs under moderate load. Also, check out the high pitched noise at the end of the video just before the cut off.

I’ll post again here as I hear back from the store I purchased it (new) from.