moarmoto Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) So I had my first cut out... Got some elbow scrapes and right hand wrist is sore. I wasn't even going fast or doing anything that one would consider abusing. Just very casual ride through groomed trail (the small rock/pebble kinds in North America). Attached EUC World stats. After I got up, I tried to turn on the wheel and it won't turn on. Also when I try to spin the wheel by hand, there's definitely some resistance. I opened up the top to see the motherboard and without taking it further apart, can't really tell what's wrong. Other posts that I was researching indicate fried board, but it looks clean. Any ideas on why? Picture of board Wheel not spinning easily (video) Stats from EUC World Edited June 23, 2023 by moarmoto update attachments 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizra6ot Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) Check the mosfets, I too had a very clean motherboard with no burn marks, the 2 sides of the mosfets were like new none had melted or blown up as you can see in the 1st photo The only thing visible on close inspection was a black tiny spot on the mosfet leg (the last one at the very bottom) The following 2 photos were taken with a super macro lens Edit, Be careful when disconnecting the XT connector, as the board is shorted and the capacitors are still charged, WEAR GLOVEShttps://imgur.com/a/0k2We2x Edited June 23, 2023 by Bizra6ot 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Very sorry to hear that happened to both of you. What were ambient / machine temps doing at the time ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizra6ot Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 @Cerbera ~25C outside ~50C board nothing hot, that night i was just cruising around right after dinner, its time had come after 7500mi of aggressive riding i guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Bizra6ot said: @Cerbera ~25C outside ~50C board nothing hot, that night i was just cruising around right after dinner, its time had come after 7500mi of aggressive riding i guess That is on the warm side, but agreed, 50 shouldn't be enough to fry stuff. That IS a lot of mileage down the stream, but you'd hope they'd choose components that did a bit better in the long term robustness department... perhaps you were just unlucky. So is this fixable by a tech department do you think, or is it new MB time ? Edited June 23, 2023 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizra6ot Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 I have the opposite point of view lol I'm amazed that they lasted as long as they did, i think it coped well with all those big peaks of current during all that mileage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 new wheel ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 My msx board also looked clean until it got removed from the heatsink. I think it was a cooling problem because it happened on a hot day, and it was a mosfet farthest away from the fans. Reported temps were unusually low = mosfet not bolted down properly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moarmoto Posted June 23, 2023 Author Share Posted June 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Bizra6ot said: Check the mosfets, I too had a very clean motherboard with no burn marks, the 2 sides of the mosfets were like new none had melted or blown up as you can see in the 1st photo The only thing visible on close inspection was a black tiny spot on the mosfet leg (the last one at the very bottom) The following 2 photos were taken with a super macro lens Edit, Be careful when disconnecting the XT connector, as the board is shorted and the capacitors are still charged, WEAR GLOVEShttps://imgur.com/a/0k2We2x Yeah, I didn't end up taking the board off the heatsink because my wrist was hurting too much to continue dealing with screws, wires etc. 2 hours ago, Cerbera said: Very sorry to hear that happened to both of you. What were ambient / machine temps doing at the time ? EUC world indicates about 48degC and ambient was around 18-20 ish degC 1 hour ago, EMA said: new wheel ? I got it in January so kind of I guess? Can't turn it on to check but I think it's around 600 to 700 km mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moarmoto Posted June 23, 2023 Author Share Posted June 23, 2023 Well, I contacted Eevees and they emailed me a UPS shipping label to send it to them. I guess l won't have a wheel for a while. Kinda lost trust in the wheel though. It's not like I was abusing it or riding dangerously. It was a very casual relaxed pace. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, moarmoto said: Well, I contacted Eevees and they emailed me a UPS shipping label to send it to them. I guess l won't have a wheel for a while. Kinda lost trust in the wheel though. It's not like I was abusing it or riding dangerously. It was a very casual relaxed pace. Try not to worry too much about that, though I know it's hard. A lot of the mistrust can evaporate overnight if you ever find out specifically what went wrong, and there is a way to fix / mitigate the chances of it happening again, or you get new components that should reassure you somewhat. But all of us have some trouble trusting a wheel again after it mysteriously drops us, and the cause is unknown. My old Gotway MS3 had 3 moments of madness while it was still in active service. I never found out what caused the first time it dropped me, but I took it very slow and cautiously for a while, and equally slowly, over the course of a few months trust was regained, and rightly so, in that it was over a year later before it did anything else weird, and actually continued to be a mostly reliable wheel for several years afterwards, until it dropped me again when a motor cable popped off its connector. I fixed that myself, and trust was restored again, and persisted until my new wheel arrived. I still have that MS3 as a backup, but now not having used it for at least 6 months if I ever need to again, the trust building process will start again from pretty much zero ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 20 hours ago, moarmoto said: Other posts that I was researching indicate fried board, but it looks clean. Sorry to hear about your cut out! Mosfets can be fried without looking any different on the outside. Stiff tire indicates that either a mosfet fried (most common), or the motor wires are shorted (rare). The EUCw data doesn’t look like it would represent a board failure though. Or perhaps the recording of the data simply just stopped? 16 hours ago, alcatraz said: Reported temps were unusually low = mosfet not bolted down properly? I think the temp sensor on the MSX is on the board, a bit away from the mosfets. So it doesn’t show the mosfet temps, but the ambient board temp only. A bad thermal connection on a mosfet would probably not show up in the temp graph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moarmoto Posted June 24, 2023 Author Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, mrelwood said: Sorry to hear about your cut out! Mosfets can be fried without looking any different on the outside. Stiff tire indicates that either a mosfet fried (most common), or the motor wires are shorted (rare). The EUCw data doesn’t look like it would represent a board failure though. Or perhaps the recording of the data simply just stopped? Yeah pretty much the tail end of the graphs would be when it stopped recording because it turned off after it cut off. After that, I couldn't get it to turn on. Edited June 24, 2023 by moarmoto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, mrelwood said: I think the temp sensor on the MSX is on the board, a bit away from the mosfets. So it doesn’t show the mosfet temps, but the ambient board temp only. A bad thermal connection on a mosfet would probably not show up in the temp graph. Makes a lot of sense. I wish I had a heat camera pointed at the board as I'm riding. In any case. Before the failure I never saw a temp higher than 44C despite me pushing on inclines and 35C ambient. Now after dropping speeds, with 3 fans, I have seen 46C at 28C ambient. Never thought I'd cheer higher temps. My dream is to do like 30.000km without failure. Edited June 25, 2023 by alcatraz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 10 hours ago, alcatraz said: My dream is to do like 30.000km without failure. Wow! I only got to 14.000km on my MSX before I sold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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