16x error, gyro dead? 4 red LEDs

[Epsilon]

Hey. So basically wanted to share my error of 16x with you guys and see if anyone else had this happen, google gave me absolutely no results for this particular error.

How this happened, as usual i charged my wheel to 100% yesterday intending to go for a ride today, geared up, went out, didn't even make it past the front door as i met a friend, as i was balancing on my wheel and we stood there talking (i held on side of a post) i lost my balance and my left leg came off the wheel while my right remained on the wheel, suddenly 16x started to spin out of control and i tilted it on the side so tire won't do a burnout, wheel stopped and started to beep loudly, gyro went completely dead, 4 red LEDs came on and wheel just beeped every few seconds. Lucky i didn't even make it 10 feet from the house so i went back. Now it is stuck in this error, i can connect with blutooth, kingsong app shows drive circuit malfunction (with some typos) and EUC world shows faulty motor circuit. i will attach screenshots from EUC world and Kingsong app, also a picture of how the wheel looks with red LEDs.

 

My wheel has 2 years of warranty (i bought it new for this purpose from local shop) so i am taking it into shop on Monday, but for now we can discuss some things.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by Epsilon

[Chriull]

Sounds like fried mosfets. Is there a resistance turning the motor while tirned off?

[Epsilon]

3 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Sounds like fried mosfets. Is there a resistance turning the motor while tirned off?

Nope, it behaves like normal while off, but it also behaves like it's turned off while it's ON and beeping at me.

[Funky]

Try putting it in transport mode > turning off > then on and removing transport mod - just for kicks.

Try recalibrating the gyro. (Where you need to balance the wheel perfectly straight/even and it turns off..)

Have you tried putting handle "harder" back in. Maybe lift switch is still engaged. (Personally had this problem, because of tightening handle holder screws.)

 

Just some random things, that you could try..

 

Wasn't there a thing, where user could reset all wheel setting back to original settings? By turning wheel "upside down" (Yes tire goes up in air. Handle on ground.) And doing power button presses? Or was that a folktale..?

Edited May 13, 2023 by Funky

[Epsilon]

7 minutes ago, Funky said:

Try putting it in transport mode > turning off > then on and removing transport mod - just for kicks.

Try recalibrating the gyro. (Where you need to balance the wheel perfectly straight/even and it turns off..)

Have you tried putting handle "harder" back in. Maybe lift switch is still engaged. (Personally had this problem, because of tightening handle holder screws.)

 

Just some random things, that you could try..

 

Wasn't there a thing where user could reset all wheel setting back to original settings? By turning wheel "upside down" (Yes tire goes up in air. Handle on ground.) And doing power button presses? Or was that a folktale..?

Transport mod not available for some reason.

Gyro won't calibrate.

Handle sensor works fine, if i lift it it beeps indicating i lifted it up. 

Tilt setting does not work either.

I don't want to mess with factory reset, they might void my warranty 😗

[mrelwood]

I might remember this correctly wrong, but I’ve seen a similar 4 red LED alert on a 16S. I think it might’ve been Hall sensor issue or some other motor related issue.

 Just for kicks, check if the app shows the serial number correctly. A few 16S units have suddenly lost their serial number which caused all kinds of issues. Entering the serial (correctly) fixed the issue.

[Epsilon]

5 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I might remember this correctly wrong, but I’ve seen a similar 4 red LED alert on a 16S. I think it might’ve been Hall sensor issue or some other motor related issue.

 Just for kicks, check if the app shows the serial number correctly. A few 16S units have suddenly lost their serial number which caused all kinds of issues. Entering the serial (correctly) fixed the issue.

it does show up fine

Edited May 13, 2023 by Epsilon

[Epsilon]

Update : Apparently the motherboard burned out during free spin, i am running firmware version 2.12 as you can see above in the screenshots and 2.12 is known from other thread here to cause random freespin. Thankfully motherboard is covered by warranty and they will replace it for free. I guess my next EUC should be something more reliable than kingsong.

[Funky]

Kingsong are quit reliable.

Same can be said about every company - till we have a bad experience. (Some more - some less. "cough" gotway "cough".)

Simply don't update the shitty firmware.. Still running 2.03v strong myself, haven't had any issue at all. The problem start when people update to buggy/shitty firmware.

[Epsilon]

11 minutes ago, Funky said:

Kingsong are quit reliable.

Same can be said about every company - till we have a bad experience. (Some more - some less. "cough" gotway "cough".)

Simply don't update the shitty firmware.. Still running 2.03v strong myself, haven't had any issue at all. The problem start when people update to buggy/shitty firmware.

It came with this firmware from the box, i will update firmware, what do you suggest? i can't look it up right now since i need to connect to wheel i don't have, 2.18?

[Funky]

16 minutes ago, Epsilon said:

It came with this firmware from the box, i will update firmware, what do you suggest? i can't look it up right now since i need to connect to wheel i don't have, 2.18?

Ahh i see.. What i meant to say, i have never updated my firmware and everything works as it's intended.

Never update to the "newest" one.. It's the most buggy one for sure.

[mrelwood]

7 hours ago, Funky said:

Never update to the "newest" one.. It's the most buggy one for sure.

That doesn’t quite make sense. Once a firmware is published, I’m pretty sure that they don’t keep fixing it afterwards. So if the latest were always the buggiest, it would mean that each update is buggier than the previous one. You’re already at 2.03, just imagine how many 1.xx firmwares there have been that were less buggy! 

[Funky]

41 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

That doesn’t quite make sense. Once a firmware is published, I’m pretty sure that they don’t keep fixing it afterwards. So if the latest were always the buggiest, it would mean that each update is buggier than the previous one. You’re already at 2.03, just imagine how many 1.xx firmwares there have been that were less buggy! 

Yeah newest should be the "best" firmware. But sadly we live in not so perfect world.. Same thing as buying first batch wheels. They should be "perfect", but aren't.

Yeah later updates - fix previous bugs/mistakes, or make something better. But same time may interduce other problem. Like mentioned free spin that doesn't shut itself off. One step forwards, two steps backwards..

It has been show many times before.. Installing the "newest" (Just released firmware mostly) is kinda dangerous. Do you think they have "tested" that firmware on all wheels? It may work for one wheel, but mess up another wheel very badly.

I had 2.03 from the box. Luckily it wasn't buggy.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Funky

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Funky said:

Same thing as buying first batch wheels.

Not quite. First batch wheels are like firmware v1.0. They get fixed and improved, and become batch 2 or firmware 1.02. The latest firmware is the latest batch wheel with the most fixes, most improvements, and most features.

 You are right in that some rare firmwares do introduce new issues. How KS have seemed to handle them is to remove the buggy firmware from public distribution, and fix it with a new firmware version. So while careful upgrades shouldn’t rush to install recently released versions, if the version has been out for several months without issues risen at the forum, the latest firmware should be considered as the safest one with most fixes, newest features, and least issues.

The KS firmware 2.0 was a monumental improvement in riding feel. Later improvements have definitely been smaller, but improvements nevertheless.

I think the KS upgrade process has been such that it doesn’t have the possibility of bricking the wheel if the upgrade fails. Which should lessen the worry of upgrading even further.

I have personally upgraded both my KS and IM wheels to the very latest version ASAP, and I haven’t ever had a single issue with any of the (public) upgrades. I have gained great improvements in the ride feel though, and had some other issues fixed as well. Highly recommended.

[Epsilon]

New motherboard has 2.08 firmware, i thought it was an older version so i went to update it, kingsong app said it was the latest, so apparently 2.08 is newer than 2.12 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

new MOBO also meant my mileage was reset and i had to ride 10km again to unlock speeds above 20 km/h, new serial number as well.

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Epsilon said:

kingsong app said it was the latest

If you have an Android at hand, I’d try upgrade with EUC World.

[DjPanJan]

Warning KS16X changed internal componets in covid times from taiwan to china electronics and firmware need be compatible ,never use firmware older compare to version you Ks16X come original!

 

I own bactch 2 and use FW 1.07 all other FW have cripled power delivery and efortless acelertion (my maionboard is 1.5 version) 

My FW is buggy and i need turn ON /OFF KS16X after every charging if not i have phantom drain around 8% daily and mainboard is realy hot KS16X looks turned off but is not BT still active in this state and risk fire or components damage is high.

From this time i everytime turn ON/off all my EUCs after charging.

You can try open 16X and check motor disabling switch on tzroley handle one time one of 2 start make problems manual asembly disasemby sensor fix this.

Problem was same no balancing and some color led error scheme.

 

[Uras]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:40 PM, Epsilon said:

Update : Apparently the motherboard burned out during free spin, i am running firmware version 2.12 as you can see above in the screenshots and 2.12 is known from other thread here to cause random freespin. Thankfully motherboard is covered by warranty and they will replace it for free. I guess my next EUC should be something more reliable than kingsong.

Out of curiosity - did you look at the fuses? There are two of them, 30amps each. From experience the disassembly is: pedals, side panels, remove handle from telescopic sliders, remove top plastic cover.

[Uras]

On 5/25/2023 at 8:55 PM, DjPanJan said:

My FW is buggy and i need turn ON /OFF KS16X after every charging

Yes, mine is the same re the charging issue. I think this is also an issue for other kingsong (xl?)

[Funky]

On 5/25/2023 at 1:55 PM, DjPanJan said:

My FW is buggy and i need turn ON /OFF KS16X after every charging if not i have phantom drain around 8% daily

8 hours ago, Uras said:

Yes, mine is the same re the charging issue. I think this is also an issue for other kingsong (xl?)

Some people have mentioned - if you disconnect charger first from wall (Or other way around.. Don't remember.) Then it shuts itself off. (Also i read somewhere that kingsong wants the charger to be connect first to wheel, then/afterwards to wall. And removing first from wall, then from wheel.)

You can do a quick BT search for your wheel, if it shows up after charging - it's still on. Or simply enable the "10 min shut off" thingy in setting. If wheel isn't being used, it will shut itself off.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Funky

[Uras]

16 hours ago, Funky said:

Some people have mentioned - if you disconnect charger first from wall (Or other way around.. Don't remember.) Then it shuts itself off. (Also i read somewhere that kingsong wants the charger to be connect first to wheel, then/afterwards to wall. And removing first from wall, then from wheel.)

You can do a quick BT search for your wheel, if it shows up after charging - it's still on. Or simply enable the "10 min shut off" thingy in setting. If wheel isn't being used, it will shut itself off.

disconnect charger from wall first - this is actually the safest way for most things. This appears to work, but doesn't.

bt on mine disappears from app when charger is unplugged from the wall. The wheel appears to be off. Hit the button and the light changes, or something weird like that. Then I hold the button in for a second or so till it goes off. Even though it's upright the balancing isn't working while it is in this state of not quite on or off.

It's a little glitch that I can easily live with. The only one I've discovered in 2,300km, so I'm not complaining. I'm surprised I haven't killed it with some of the impacts I've had 

I've always had the 10min shut off. It does work when the wheel is normally on and stop for a break or something like that.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Uras

[BKW]

I just experienced this myself. My wheel was on, standing still, and out of nowhere it started beeping and saying "warning! overpowered!" and kept beeping so I turned it off. I turned it back on and there is the 4 red dots like the OP has in his picture. I tried to charge it and it was fine for about a minute and then the lights started blinking weird and i quickly unplugged it. 4 red lights go on after as well.

I have disconnected the batteries and drained the EUC of all power as this quite frankly scared me being in an apartment building and I worry if it was a battery issue.

Ironically, I was entering a store and the floor was wet and the wheel free-spun on the floor (this was right before I got home), so this may have happened after a free-spin as the OP has also mentioned. I have the latest EUC World firmware on it as well.

It was lightly sprinkling rain outside, but nothing crazy and I've rode in the rain before no issues. I don't think it was the rain because it was not very heavy and I was not out long in it.

A couple things (possible issues):

1. I have the trolley up during this time and it may have to do something with that and the kill-switch (just guessing here). I can't shut the trolley handle down because trolley handle is currently messed up. I already have two new rails coming in the mail in the next few days, so I'll see if it has to do something with the kill-switch after installation.
2. It could be due to the free-spin that happened earlier as the OP also experienced
3. Damaged battery (I doubt it). Batteries appear good upon inspection, no weird smell to them, no real hard falls has happened that would damage the battery I'm aware of. I don't think the batteries are the issue.
4. It is not the fuses as I checked and they are fine
5. Could be the motherboard. Although, I looked over the motherboard quickly and did not notice any burn smells or burn marks and no damage to any of the components that I'm aware of
6. I could try to change the firmware and see if this has an effect.
7. I haven't connected it to any app yet to see any issues as I was too afraid to turn it on again due to being in an apartment complex, but I will do this eventually
8. It could be something wrong with the gyro as it did say "wheel overpowered" during the issue glitching out. "Wheel overpowered" may be saying that the gyro is dead and reading the balancing wrong. The beeping could have been part of the warning the wheel gives when going to fast or overpowered... so this may be the issue. I don't know anything about gyros though so would need to do some research if all else fails

I'll work down this list and troubleshoot. I'm hoping it's not the motherboard. I personally don't think it is. I think it might have something to do with the kill-switch or firmware... or it could be the gyro.

I'll post an update probably in a week or so after I troubleshoot some more on the EUC.

I'm working on two EUCs at the same time which is ironic considering I rarely have done any maintenance on them until now after having them so long. They all just started acting up at the same time I guess

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by BKW

[mrelwood]

Besides an actual overpower, KingSong’s “overpower” warning can also mean overvoltage, and probably even overheat. If it was lodged between it against something when it happened, an overheat could be understandable.

Older KingSongs sometimes (rarely) lost their serial number, which caused the wheel to enter an error state which sounds a lot like what you describe. Check the warnings and the serial in the app, they might tell you crucial steps in hunting down the issue. You didn’t describe anything that could’ve brought the batteries to a dangerous state, although I can understand the fear.

[BKW]

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Besides an actual overpower, KingSong’s “overpower” warning can also mean overvoltage, and probably even overheat. If it was lodged between it against something when it happened, an overheat could be understandable.

Older KingSongs sometimes (rarely) lost their serial number, which caused the wheel to enter an error state which sounds a lot like what you describe. Check the warnings and the serial in the app, they might tell you crucial steps in hunting down the issue. You didn’t describe anything that could’ve brought the batteries to a dangerous state, although I can understand the fear.

Thanks for this.

I'll be reassembling the KS16X later today when I get the rails. When the wheel made that "overpower" warning it was sitting a while in a hot room so perhaps this was the issue.

I'll report back later

[BKW]

@mrelwood it appears your assertion about the heat causing the KS16X to announce "overpowered" is likely the cause. The wheel has been off for a day or two since I had the issue; today I reassembled the wheel, turned it on, and it appears to be back to normal (no 4 red lights, no "overpower" warnings, etc). I even plugged it back in to charge and also no issues. I've very happy this is the case and I didn't know about the heating reactions until this happened to me.

Edited June 29, 2023 by BKW