mrelwood Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 13 hours ago, techyiam said: But Casey (EUC Way of Life), said he hardly noticed much difference. “Riding this one … in the same manner” sounds like the significant phrase here. He rides very calmly throughout the video. Increased peak performance doesn’t do anything if you don’t use the range of power that’s available. Even a 10kW motor would feel the same for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetricUSA Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 What ever you do ... Do not buy the s22... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: “Riding this one … in the same manner” sounds like the significant phrase here. He rides very calmly throughout the video. Increased peak performance doesn’t do anything if you don’t use the range of power that’s available. Even a 10kW motor would feel the same for him. That is one interpretation. And this a possibility. However, Casey is an experienced rider with many wheels under his belt. I believe he said that in order to say that he has tried to keep the number of variables the same so it was still a fair comparison for the video. I believe he bought the S22 Pro thinking it would give him more motor performance. So, he went out to see what it can do. And he is not a light guy. IMO, it doesn't sound promising if he can't noticed the difference. Let say this. I certainly would not rule out that the possibility that the S22 Pro motor would not give me more motor performance than the S22 if I rode it. The S22 / Pro rides well. I would consider getting one. But I wouldn't get one for more money than the Patton, while knowing that I may not be able to access its motor performance beyond that of its predecessor. When I already know I can access more motor performance from the Patton than the early S22 by a country mile. Edited June 24, 2023 by techyiam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 12 minutes ago, MetricUSA said: What ever you do ... Do not buy the s22... Personally, I would only get the S22 if there is a specific trait or capability that I am after, and it is only available on the S22, and I can tolerate the slider maintenance service interval. Otherwise, the Patton looks mighty tempting in this class of wheels. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
level9 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 2 hours ago, mrelwood said: “Riding this one … in the same manner” sounds like the significant phrase here. He rides very calmly throughout the video. Increased peak performance doesn’t do anything if you don’t use the range of power that’s available. Even a 10kW motor would feel the same for him. Yup. This. According to EUC World stats most people don't push the wheel anywhere remotely close to it's capabilities. Outside of additional safety margin due to the torque, it may not be useful for typical riders to upgrade. Probably why it's called the PRO motor I can notice the difference but here are my typical stats for a quick trip. Most ride slower, longer and tamely. POWER 6359 WMAX 1558 WAVG -2439 WMIN CURRENT 55.6 AMAX 13.8 AAVG -20 AMIN SPEED 39.9 mphMAX23.4 mphAVG RIDING20.6 mphAVG DURATION 43 minsOVERALL40 minsTOUR38 minsRIDING BATTERY 100 %MAX 54 %MIN BY DISTANCE 9 % longer than your average Same as your average on King Song KS-S22 112 % longer than other riders average 47 % longer than other riders average on King Song KS-S22 94 % longer than other riders average in United States BY DURATION 26 % shorter than your average 22 % shorter than your average on King Song KS-S22 20 % shorter than other riders average 50 % shorter than other riders average on King Song KS-S22 48 % shorter than other riders average in United States BY AVG SPEED 45 % faster than your average 23 % faster than your average on King Song KS-S22 178 % faster than other riders average 119 % faster than other riders average on King Song KS-S22 172 % faster than other riders average in United States BY AVG RIDING SPEED 41 % faster than your average 18 % faster than your average on King Song KS-S22 118 % faster than other riders average 65 % faster than other riders average on King Song KS-S22 98 % faster than other riders average in United States BY MAX TEMPERATURE 49 % higher than your average 24 % higher than your average on King Song KS-S22 68 % higher than other riders average 124 % higher than other riders average on King Song KS-S22 61 % higher than other riders average in United States BY AVG ENERGY CONSUMPTION 44 % higher than your average 10 % higher than your average on King Song KS-S22 88 % higher than other riders average 76 % higher than other riders average on King Song KS-S22 70 % higher than other riders average in United States I ride hard and fast and already have statorade injected into the motor, vent holes drilled in the battery case and heatsinks placed all over the mboard. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ride INMOTION Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 10:14 PM, MetricUSA said: What ever you do ... Do not buy the s22... hello,may I know your reason ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PourUC Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 On 6/22/2023 at 11:19 AM, Tryptych said: Back on topic: I've heard a few people saying the difference between the old motor and the new motor is not very noticeable. Can we get a few more people giving us their thoughts? Is it truly noticeable? I notice the difference. It's not night and day, some of the FW updates made a more noticable effect. A lot of that though is due to the FW updates allowing faster accelleration. The noticeable benefit of the motor upgrade is in it's torque. You can accellerate better uphill without getting little pedal dips. When doing jumps you can push a little bit more without getting beeps. When braking hard it's better than it was before. Riding at speed and hitting a little dip in the road leads to less pedal dip than on stock. Essentially, you need to already ride in a more aggressive way than most people (according to EUC world anyway) for most of the power benefits to be noticed. Oh, another thing. It doesn't get as hot. Not sure what is the biggest culprit between more copper or potentially a different temp probe location but I used to hit worryingly high temps on the regular. Now I don't at all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPAndrade Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Autonomy test for the S22 Pro. Pilot weighing 80kg with safety equipment. Flat terrain for most of the route. Total distance 92km (57 miles) with battery up to 14%. Average riding speed 29km/h (18miles/h). I believe it is similar performance to the 1st generation S22. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sjvkUKlPfugWAt80jbl8Qmh467OlS44_/view?usp=drive_link 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroJero Posted August 14, 2023 Share Posted August 14, 2023 Has the no-load speed of the S22 Pro changed? Please someone test with full battery. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhoadsNRoses82 Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 10:35 AM, techyiam said: Personally, I would only get the S22 if there is a specific trait or capability that I am after, and it is only available on the S22, and I can tolerate the slider maintenance service interval. Otherwise, the Patton looks mighty tempting in this class of wheels. wouldn't there be a massive diff between s22 and patton just cuz of the 16" nature of the patton? i've been riding a v11 for over a year (my first euc), and my friend just got a v12 HT, and when i tried it i would say it is definitely more challenging to keep stable on it. I'm wondering if i would feel the same way about the patton cuz its 16"? i'm also debating between s22 pro and the patton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 1 hour ago, EF95 said: wouldn't there be a massive diff between s22 and patton just cuz of the 16" nature of the patton? i've been riding a v11 for over a year (my first euc), and my friend just got a v12 HT, and when i tried it i would say it is definitely more challenging to keep stable on it. I'm wondering if i would feel the same way about the patton cuz its 16"? i'm also debating between s22 pro and the patton. I started on a Begode T3. Then went onto a V12. And now I am on an Abrams. I went to events and got to tried out an S22, V13, Patton, EX30, and a V11. It was very natural to jump onto the S22 and Patton and just ride. I had only a slight pause on the V13. But it wasn't that natural for me to ride the V11 right away. The pedal height of the V11 felt high to me. I simply could not ride the EX30. From what I observed at the event, everybody could just jump on and ride the Patton. To me, both the Patton and S22 were just as easy to ride. You do realize the Patton weighs 90 lbs. The S22 weighs only 77 lbs. While riding, I could not really tell much difference in weight. I was riding an OG S22, so the motor was gutless. If you have a year of experience on the V11, then you are set. Although, I didn't ride above 40 km/h, both the Patton and S22 are way more less wobbly than the V12. The Patton rides unlike a typical 16" wheel. That wheel doesn't move around much. But the Patton is agile at the same time. My T3 moves around a lot on bumpy roads, the V12 less, and the Abrams, a lot lot less. Perhaps others who have moved to a Patton from a V11 can share their experiences. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 18 hours ago, techyiam said: Perhaps others who have moved to a Patton from a V11 can share their experiences. I got to try the Patton shortly today. I’ve been riding the V11 for 3 years. I was surprised about the stability of the Patton. It didn’t feel like the past generation of 16x3” wheels like 16X, Nikola, or even V12. The added tire diameter of the beefy 3.0-12 tire surely plays a role. And the huge amount of weight surely stabilized it (much) further. I wouldn’t say that it generally felt more unstable than the V11. But a big problem with the current generation of wheels, especially ShermS and Patton, is that the width of the body is the same at the top as it is at the pedal height. The distance between your legs is not, if you’re standing with your feet apart. This causes the upper edge of the body to dig into your shin, and in the case of ShermS and Patton the edge is even quite sharp. Due to this, designs like the Adventure, S19 and S16 that have a gradually slanted top end would be much much more ergonomic and comfortable. This issue alone would prevent me from purchasing any of the current LeaperKims, Begodes, and the like. S22 was very wide at the top as well, but AFAIR it didn’t feel quite as sharp. That wheel has issues of it’s own though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litewave Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 On 6/24/2023 at 12:10 PM, level9 said: I ride hard and fast and already have statorade injected into the motor, vent holes drilled in the battery case and heatsinks placed all over the mboard. I would love to see how you did all these mods. I think I can figure most of it out, but sharing is caring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, mrelwood said: I was surprised about the stability of the Patton. It didn’t feel like the past generation of 16x3” wheels like 16X, Nikola, or even V12. The added tire diameter of the beefy 3.0-12 tire surely plays a role. And the huge amount of weight surely stabilized it (much) further. I wouldn’t say that it generally felt more unstable than the V11. Right? I got to give credit to Leaper Kim for that. However, I didn't find that trait in the Commander Mini. The Mini weighs almost as much as the Patton, but the Mini didn't feel as planted and stable. My V12 with the scooter tire is no match for the Patton. The Mini is probably more stable than my V12, but it is hard to tell because the Mini that I was on was very sensitive to braking wobbles, even at low speeds. The Mini wasn't mine, so I couldn't change settings. 8 hours ago, mrelwood said: But a big problem with the current generation of wheels, especially ShermS and Patton, is that the width of the body is the same at the top as it is at the pedal height. The distance between your legs is not, if you’re standing with your feet apart. This causes the upper edge of the body to dig into your shin, and in the case of ShermS and Patton the edge is even quite sharp. Interesting that you mentioned that. But a lot of the heavier wheels these days are pretty wide at top. When the S22 first came out, I didn't like the width of the S22. But ever since I have gotten used to riding my Abrams, the S22 or the Sherman S and the Patton don't bother me. I am pretty sure you have a bigger frame than me, so my stance on the pedals is pretty wide. But now I find that wide stance is natural, and when I go back to riding the V12, I find it too narrow. Pretty sure you can get used to it. The V13's width is nice too. So I can go either way. @EF95 with one year riding experience on a V11 was asking...... On 8/18/2023 at 10:44 PM, techyiam said: Perhaps others who have moved to a Patton from a V11 can share their experiences. Perhaps if you don't mind making a comment with regards to jumping from a V11 onto a Patton or S22, what were your thoughts? Edited August 20, 2023 by techyiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InMoOnGoWa75012 Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 8 hours ago, mrelwood said: But a big problem with the current generation of wheels, especially ShermS and Patton, is that the width of the body is the same at the top as it is at the pedal height. The distance between your legs is not, if you’re standing with your feet apart. This causes the upper edge of the body to dig into your shin, and in the case of ShermS and Patton the edge is even quite sharp. You should try an EX30 out of the box. Sold my V11 after that ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 1 hour ago, techyiam said: My V12 with the scooter tire is no match for the Patton. I forgot to mention about the tire. I found it really bothersome to try to ride straight with the Patton. It was trying to turn at the slightest of tilt. Exactly what people call “knife’s edge”. But the owner hadn’t even checked what the factory pressure was, let alone adjusted it (he just is like that… ) so I would suspect that the pressure was just too high for the tire (in EUCs usage). 1 hour ago, techyiam said: But now I find that wide stance is natural, and when I go back to riding the V12, I find it too narrow. I don’t think I would mind a wide stance in itself, since like you said, one does get used to pretty much anything. Even to a pebble in one’s shoe. The problem is that the sides of the wheel don’t follow the leg’s angle at a wide stance, at all. And that the top edge is so sharp. Look at the Adventure. The top is curved in very gracefully, so there’s nothing to dig into your leg. Whether it still feels wide at the top remains to be seen. Then there’s everybody’s personal knee angle when standing. Some people like Duff for instance have their knees pointing strongly outward, kind of like a horseback stance. My knees are slightly pointing inward, so I am more sensitive to wheels that are wide at the top. While I would surely get used to a wide wheel, my personal knee stance (I know there’s an actual term for that that I just don’t remember) won’t change because of the EUC. I don’t ride that much. So the wheel would always feel wide at the top, and it would force me into an unnatural stance. But I’d get used to it forcing me into that unnatural stance. 1 hour ago, techyiam said: Perhaps if you don't mind making a comment with regards to jumping from a V11 onto a Patton or S22, what were your thoughts? Well, both of them felt very unnatural, wide at the top, and bothersome to handle because of the weight. I did think that I felt the increased weight during riding as well. They were both in hard mode though when I tested them, so they required a lot of effort to accelerate and brake. More than the V11 in the hardest mode and without split mode assists. The S22 even more due to the bigger tire diameter. Unsurprisingly both of them (S22 was equipped with rollers) had a better suspension than the V11, which seizes up a bit while accelerating. The Patton felt a good bit easier to get on to due to the smaller physical demeanor. It was of course less of a pork than the S22, and despite the Patton feeling quite top heavy and falling into the turn when turning around in a “small” circle, the S22 with the stock tire at least was much worse. Is there something else that I’m missing? I’m happy to answer any further questions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCzero Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 On 6/26/2023 at 3:53 AM, Kingsong Customer Support said: hello,may I know your reason ? The sliders do not last long if you ride off road. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.