German EUC riders, I have a question (bitte)

[2disbetter]

From what I understand riding a EUC on the public street is illegal in Germany. Cops can confiscate your wheel on the spot. You are allowed to use it on private property, however. 

So what are you doing? Do you use it for recreation only, and take risks of getting if confiscated? 

Do you stick to back streets and paths only? 

[daniel1234]

45 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

From what I understand riding a EUC on the public street is illegal in Germany. Cops can confiscate your wheel on the spot. You are allowed to use it on private property, however. 

So what are you doing? Do you use it for recreation only, and take risks of getting if confiscated? 

Do you stick to back streets and paths only? 

Same situation in Czechia

I am staying out of main roads - and trying to look for bike lanes and good sidewalks. City police is mad on all EUC speedsters delivering food on EUC, breaking road law.

When I am stoped, I am polite, sorry and play on cop feelings to not get fine.

[Funky]

If they "suddenly" became illegal in my country. I personally would not give a duck. Mostly because i never see police in my small city. And if i ever would see them.. I would simply ignore them and ride a longer path around them. Or choose altogether different path. Need be i'll do 180 degree turn around. Play off, ahh darn i forgot something i need to go back..  

I'm not hurting no-one, so leave me be.  

You're best bet is to ride slow as possible, when you see them and most important they already see you.. Especially if you going on sidewalks. But i personally would avoid them like plague altogether. I would not wanna lose my EUC, because of dumb laws/rules. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Funky

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, 2disbetter said:

Cops can confiscate your wheel on the spot.

Not sure that's true.

Anyways, there is an (older) legal opinion that says EUCs are not covered by German law due to a legal loophole (politicians too dumb to cover vehicles that are self-balancing and have only one wheel). See this: Grosskopf_NVZ_2015_531.pdf (legal opinion, very hard to decipher) and this: informativ_76.pdf (this is good because it is literally from a police info brochure and compactly says that EUCs are ok).

No idea if that works or is valid (supposedly someone used that argument repeatedly with success, but I don't know any details), but you can always use it as an excuse "I thought I'm ok", ""Well I guess I'll stop riding then" (lie, this is the thing to say to make a difference between being let off scot-free or not) etc. to get out of potential trouble. So this approach can only benefit you.

Personally, I do ride bike paths and mountains and trails and through the countryside where there are no police anyways. Passed them a few times in the city. I believe the combination of not riding like a madman/slowing down near police (if it looks like you are going 20kph or less, they might not see it as a problem or may think you are like one of the e-scooters that are good) and surprise/not being right where they are (how do you stop a EUC rider who didn't hear you with the helmet and all that noise? Not that easy) will be enough unless you are very unlucky or they expect you coming (like some traffic stop thing). Your best defense is being gone before anybody even realizes what is going on. EUCs are quick and stealthy.

It's up to you how much you want to stretch the unclear situation. Avoid places with guaranteed police presence, I guess. If stopped, be nice at first and see if you can convince them that you (thought you) are legal, and nudge them (EUCs are heavy and you need to constantly maintain the battery to prevent damage, bla bla) if they indeed try to confiscate your wheel (I don't think that will happen unless someone has a bad day, especially if you have the good excuse that you might very well be legal... ahem, are legal as far as this piece of paper says).

Edited January 16, 2023 by meepmeepmayer

[Chriull]

Afair some people stated that the grosskopf paper is not right/accepted/whatever? One would need to go to court instead of paying the fine to get a valid legal statement?

There was also the difference that riding without a ?limited liability? insurance is a criminal offense, while riding with insurance just an infringement/administrative offense.

But there is about no insurance offered for eucs although insurance companies would be obliged to do so. Some got "scooter/segway/etc" insurance for the euc, which is some other kind of offense again...

All this was long and detailed discussed in german in 

I have no idea what's still relevant and valid or ever was - i decided to never visit germany with an euc

[litewave]

Wie sagt man: "Make Germany Fun Again" auf Deutsch?

[mhpr262]

I have a license plate from an online insurer on my EUC that is meant for "self balancing electric vehicles" (by which the insurer meant Segways). OneWheels and Hoverboards are specifically excluded in the policy but EUCs arent mentioned anywhere so I am just going to play dumb and tell the police I thought this was a "one-wheeled Segway".

I have been stopped once by the police in my hometown and they looked up my license plate to see if it was valid but they couldnt decide if my EUC was legal to ride or not and had to look up the regulations. The officer called me next morning, telling me since my EUC had a "handlebar" (the trolley handle of my V10F that I had extended while talking to them) it was legal to ride! He even apologized profusely for stopping me and advising me to walk home (not that I did). I accepted the apology most graciously, LOL.

Havent had any trouble since apparently the officer spread the word. It would never have crossed my mind to pass off the trolley handle of my EUC as a handlebar but if I ever get stopped again I am certainly going to do that.

I guess it also helps that I always ride extremely defensively, always at moderate bicycle speeds around 12-15mph, always on bicycle paths as far as possible and I am always geared up with wristguards and at least a bicycle helmet.

All in al I have close to 17.000 kilometers across the three wheels I have owned over the last two and a half years and have never had an issue. I do stay out of large cities as much as possible though where the police might be better informed.

Edited January 16, 2023 by mhpr262

[Funky]

19 minutes ago, mhpr262 said:

I have been stopped once by the police in my hometown and they looked up my license plate to see if it was valid but they couldnt decide if my EUC was legal to ride or not and had to look it up. The officer called me next morning, telling me since my EUC had a "handlebar" (the trolley handle of my V10F that I had unfolded while talking to them) it was legal to ride! He even apologzed profusely for stopping me and advising me to walk home (not that I did). I accepted the apology most graciously, LOL.

Havent had any trouble since apparently the officer spread the word. It would never have crossed my mind to pass off the trolley handle of my EUC as a handlebar but if I ever get stopped again I am certainly going to do that.

So.. All we have to do is hold the trolley handle, while riding past police? Gotcha! Thanks for the tip.  

I would extend the handle right to my asscheeks. And say: Can't you see my handlebars? I'm steering using my butt.  

 

It made me laugh.  

[2disbetter]

Thank you all! It brought hope to me that it just might be ok, if I ride conservatively in the presence of a cop. I guess I'll just have to give a try. I can all play the whole I'm American and I honestly didn't know schtick. Ich kann auch Deutsch, and perhaps that would be helpful as well. To me the EUC makes perfect sense for Germany's drive to find more environmentally friendly ways to commute. 

[2disbetter]

8 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

this: informativ_76.pdf (this is good because it is literally from a police info brochure and compactly says that EUCs are ok).

I think this is very good. Although the section that says they are ok, seems weird. I read that it was saying they are just hard to insure and there doesn't seem to be a registration across Europe for them. But that doesn't really sound like they are ok? 

Also you have insurance, but where did you attach the plate? 

[meepmeepmayer]

7 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

I think this is very good. Although the section that says they are ok, seems weird. I read that it was saying they are just hard to insure and there doesn't seem to be a registration across Europe for them. But that doesn't really sound like they are ok? 

Also you have insurance, but where did you attach the plate? 

Note it's the last (third) item on the first page, not the second item which concerns hoverboards, minipros and so on (2 wheel self-balancing vehicles).

I don't have an insurance, and I don't think I could get one if I wanted to. I'm certainly not paying for insurance that may or may not pay out.

The point of this is so you could say "This here says these are not covered by law" and use it to your advantage as you see fit.

[2disbetter]

14 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The point of this is so you could say "This here says these are not covered by law" and use it to your advantage as you see fit.

Thanks, this is indeed the material point. Thanks again!