Enough is Enough

[CarlW]

Are Chinese companies even capable of prioritizing safety, reliability and build quality over short term profits.  Not a chance.  Until a company like Honda or a real manufacturing company sees a future in these dangerous toys, crap will beget crap from the Chinese.  I'll never be buying another wheel heavier than 55 pounds.  I will not be buying another wheel without significant improvements to build quality.  I see no need to continue rewarding companies that appear to have no concern about their reputation and our satisfaction.    

[alcatraz]

If those qulities were lacking then any competitor providing them would quickly become market leading. 

Seems the "fun" aspect attracts more customers than redundant systems.

[tst]

2 hours ago, CarlW said:

Are Chinese companies even capable of prioritizing safety, reliability and build quality over short term profits.  Not a chance.  Until a company like Honda or a real manufacturing company sees a future in these dangerous toys, crap will beget crap from the Chinese.  I'll never be buying another wheel heavier than 55 pounds.  I will not be buying another wheel without significant improvements to build quality.  I see no need to continue rewarding companies that appear to have no concern about their reputation and our satisfaction.    

euc's are a niche market. You should be thankful they even make them.

Btw also Chinese people like safety. I think things will improve but it's a very long way.

I agree with you and try to keep the speed low.

[Mono]

On 2/16/2023 at 3:02 PM, Paul A said:

The significant low quality of Begode [...] might be largely in part due to the physical location of their operations.

The usual problem: correlation is not causation.

Ignorance or incompetence or carelessness or lack of resources are the rather obvious causal reasons for the lack of sufficient product quality control, not the location of a factory.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Mono

[Paul A]

24 minutes ago, Mono said:

location of a factory.

 

Some Gotway employees broke away to form Leaperkim.

Leaperkim chose to situate their operations in Shenzhen.

There are great advantages in having the operations in close proximity to suppliers.

Eg: A sample part made by a supplier can be physically made, inspected, modified, quality controlled, produced, delivered, much more quickly, conveniently, etc.

Communication is quicker.

Some things cannot be done/transmitted via email, electronic communications.

 

Shenzhen is the hub of consumer electronics.

All the technical capabilities, infrastructure, is there in a concentrated area.

 

Highly skilled labor is concentrated in Shenzhen.

It might be difficult to attract skilled personnel to work in a location much further away.

People might prefer to work, live, and play in a modern advanced metropolis.

[Mono]

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

It might be difficult to attract skilled personnel to work in a location much further away.

3 hours ago, Paul A said:

People might prefer to work, live, and play in a modern advanced metropolis.

It's always difficult to attract skilled people and many production facilities are not located close to a modern advanced metropolis. It's almost like a key feature of modern metropoles to not host production industry.

[Paul A]

22 minutes ago, Mono said:

modern metropoles to not host production industry

 

An interesting video that helps to show why companies have production on Shenzhen.

Speed is of the essence.

 

What is driving China's innovation Capital?

China Matters

Dec 13, 2018

 

Shenzhen is considered the innovation capital of China, but what does it mean and how do companies compete and grow in Shenzhen?

We wanted to know what Shenzhen speed means and what it is like to start a company in Shenzhen.

 

[Mono]

4 minutes ago, Paul A said:

An interesting video that helps to show why companies have production on Shenzhen.

Speed is of the essence.

In my mind we were talking about product quality control. I'd think that speed is at best orthogonal to quality control, and more likely antagonistic.

[Robse]

[Paul A]

28 minutes ago, Mono said:

product quality control.

 

Companies are attracted to locating and manufacturing in Shenzhen because of the speed at which things can get done.

Foreign companies are setting up operations in Shenzhen.

Begode is at a disadvantage because they are located much further away.  Their quality control suffers.

[Mono]

2 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Companies are attracted to locating and manufacturing in Shenzhen because of the speed at which things can get done.

Foreign companies are setting up operations in Shenzhen.

Begode is at a disadvantage because they are located much further away.  Their quality control suffers.

That is your speculation of a causal chain. I strongly suspect that this speculation is wrong.

I even have the evidence to go with my suspicion: the ten (or even hundred?) thousands of companies that are not located in Shenzhen and still have decent quality control. And the hundreds (or maybe thousands) of companies in Shenzhen that have shitty quality control (I know, that's just speculation too, like yours, but well, we are all convinced that this is true, aren't we).

[Paul A]

29 minutes ago, Mono said:

speculation

 

Perhaps this might be another factor of Begode's poor quality.

From Instagram.....KujiRolls' comment on the Veteran Sherman, from 146 weeks ago.

Gotway engineers that broke away to form Veteran/Leaperkim, a complete new start up, were able to produce an exceptional quality EUC, as their very first product.

Their skill, talents, abilities to achieve this, would have been a significant tremendous loss for Begode.

Veteran/Leaperkim continue to produce quality, whereas Begode do not.

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Paul A

[Mono]

4 hours ago, Paul A said:

Gotway engineers that broke away to form Veteran/Leaperkim, a complete new start up, were able to produce an exceptional quality EUC, as their very first product.

Their skill, talents, abilities to achieve this, would have been a significant tremendous loss for Begode.

Right, and we have to assume that there was a reason why they left. I guess it's still the same four possibilities: incompetence, ignorance, carelessness or lack of resources (or willingness to share them in the right way). Generally, talented people will hesitate to leave a company where competence and care for a high quality product is the central philosophy and backed up with sufficient resources.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Mono

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, Mono said:

I guess it's still the same four possibilities: incompetence, ignorance, carelessness or lack of resources (or willingness to share them in the right way)

I worked for a company that was started by breakaway staff... their reasoning was they had an idea that their former employer didn't want to pursue. So they did it themselves. Former employer lacked vision, or guts, or whatever—but their idea didn't fit the business plan so they had to set off on their own. While I consider them fabulous Engineering types, they weren't better or worse than those that stayed. What the old company lost was some free thinkers, folks that wanted to push the envelope of what's possible.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Tawpie

[Mono]

59 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I worked for a company that was started by breakaway staff... their reasoning was they had an idea that their former employer didn't want to pursue.

True, lack of vision is a reason for leaving a company too and not so much a reason for lack of quality control, unless the vision is quality 

[Paul A]

 

[MadVlad]

I would not have gotten into riding EUCs if the price to enter was significantly above a grand. If a new person is looking to try it out, and they arent sure if its for them, they arent very likely to spend 2-4 grand on a wheel. So, unless they know somebody with a wheel, they arent likely to try it or get into it because the cost of entry is too high. So yes, big wheels sell, they sell because experienced riders are the ones that tend to buy those. You want new people? Give them an affordable, modern, sleek, RELIABLE, and SAFE, not intimidating wheel, they might buy that big wheel later on.

[Funky]

5 hours ago, MadVlad said:

I would not have gotten into riding EUCs if the price to enter was significantly above a grand. If a new person is looking to try it out, and they arent sure if its for them, they arent very likely to spend 2-4 grand on a wheel. So, unless they know somebody with a wheel, they arent likely to try it or get into it because the cost of entry is too high. So yes, big wheels sell, they sell because experienced riders are the ones that tend to buy those. You want new people? Give them an affordable, modern, sleek, RELIABLE, and SAFE, not intimidating wheel, they might buy that big wheel later on.

He may be mad. Some may even call him@MadVlad. But one thing for sure. He knows what he's talking about!!  

[Wheel Guy]

5 hours ago, MadVlad said:

I would not have gotten into riding EUCs if the price to enter was significantly above a grand. If a new person is looking to try it out, and they arent sure if its for them, they arent very likely to spend 2-4 grand on a wheel. So, unless they know somebody with a wheel, they arent likely to try it or get into it because the cost of entry is too high. So yes, big wheels sell, they sell because experienced riders are the ones that tend to buy those. You want new people? Give them an affordable, modern, sleek, RELIABLE, and SAFE, not intimidating wheel, they might buy that big wheel later on.

I got into riding via the Mten4, I think it kind of hits your mark. But yes, it would be great if there were more low- and midrange options. 

[Funky]

2 hours ago, loofv said:

I got into riding via the Mten4, I think it kind of hits your mark. But yes, it would be great if there were more low- and midrange options. 

There are, but just "older" models.. Anyone who walks into EUC store sees mostly those big/monster EUC, because they are "newer" models. They checks price. Makes big EYES, turn around and leave the store.  Newcomes for sure will not want big/heavy/fast EUC.. And ~3k$ prices doesn't help the point.

 

New small wheels would get many new customers = more sales overall = bigger profits for manufacturers.. But nah. They want to sell big wheels for big profits.

Because selling one big wheel vs many small wheels. Time vise it's better to sell one big wheel vs many smaller ones. (But they are missing one very big point. All those newcomers over time will want to buy one of big wheels someday.. That's how they would increase the profits.)