supercurio Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) Simple question to you, owner of a Gotway/Begode wheel and located near Europe. Would you be interested buying LiTech battery packs, same as the ones currently shipped to eWheels customers as part of a recall to address fire safety concerns with the original Begode 900Wh packs? I have nothing to sell myself, but if there's demand, I believe it could be possible to convince a reputable European reseller to import them. Compatible wheels: Gotway Monster Gotway MSP Gotway/Begode Nikola 100V Begode RS Begode EX Begode Monster Pro Begode EX.N Begode EX20S Extreme Bull Commander Extreme Bull X-Men These packs exist with Samsung 50E variants or Molicel high drain cells for higher power delivery. Main use cases: Replace packs with poor fire safety track record Replace damaged packs with bad cell groups which stop charging Upgrade to high power cells for lower voltage sag in accelerations and at speed, significantly lower degradation during fast charging LiTech packs characteristics: Images from eWheels website More results: I asked the same question as a poll on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/5435790713185514/ Edited September 13, 2022 by supercurio 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjam.nyc Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 I am not from EU, but one would think there would be a demand for these safety features. There is a lot of buzz and talk around battery safety lately across the board. Not just in the EUC world. I think the only real downfall with importing is having to wait even longer for shipments, etc. I pose another question. Is there a reason other manufacturers cant/dont implement similar features into their battery packs.. Is it cost related? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brahan Seer Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 With headlines like this occurring its just a matter of time before EV manufacturers will have to step up their game. I can see the current situation of dumb BMS systems or more being banned very shortly unless the safety is vastly improved... Via Reuters: https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/09/13/Fire-at-electric-scooter-showroom-in-southern-India-kills-eight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 57 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said: I am not from EU, but one would think there would be a demand for these safety features. There is a lot of buzz and talk around battery safety lately across the board. Not just in the EUC world. I think the only real downfall with importing is having to wait even longer for shipments, etc. I think so too, but let's evaluate if there's indeed demand. If one/several European reseller is able import a certain quantity of these packs, either in 50E, Molicel or both variants it would help making shipping pretty fast within Europe. 57 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said: I pose another question. Is there a reason other manufacturers cant/dont implement similar features into their battery packs.. Is it cost related? Inmotion and Kingsong now have these features and more (although Inmotion said that balancing is absent on all wheels but the V13) Only Begode and Leaperkim have these features missing in their packs (addressed in Master for Begode). Begode packs have had multiple failures due to varied causes like excessive cell stress, insufficient mechanical protection as well as malfunctions of the BMS safety mechanisms in some conditions. Leaperkim packs, despite their rudimentary design have proven safer. The BMS can indicate errors to the mainboard which certainly help. 22 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said: I can see the current situation of dumb BMS systems or more being banned very shortly unless the safety is vastly improved... Unfortunately these packs don't have smart BMS capabilities, only the standard feature set you'd expect from a dumb one (which Begode's do not) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) Don't forget there are riders who don't read up on EUC "news" and "buzz" talk.. They simply buy the euc and ride to job, enjoys it, etc.. Same as buying regular bike. I for one know all the dangers and what not. But some don't. As the saying goes: Ignorance is bliss. Edited September 13, 2022 by Funky 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 @Funky very true. My guess is that most European shops, still fairly small compared to their North American counterparts re-invested their revenue in growth and would be essentially unable to bear the costs of a recall, funding the free replacement of Begode 900Wh battery packs like eWheels is making happen now. So step by step: individual riders ability to buy these packs as an option would still be a good step forward in an environment where the only alternative would be a regulatory body stepping in and forcing owners to recycle their wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 0000 Posted September 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) In lieu of the advert claims, there's something I want to say to prospective LiTech battery pack buyers. When I was first in the market for a wheel, I was trying to find a vendor who would sell a battery-less RS19 and the plan was to build my own packs. After researching, my confidence was this low. My favoring the "if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself" mentality did not come quickly or by happenstance. Anyway, this was right near the time eWheels started to offer the LiTech battery solution. So I happily scrapped the DIY plan and put in for one from what would be their first batch. The main factors that sold me was that I knew QC during the critical battery assembly step was likely to be better due to eWheel's investment, the claimed increased durability of the battery holders (I knew I was going to beat the wheel up eventually), and the use of pure nickel interconnects. Frankly, I couldn't believe any vendor would be relying on nickel-plated steel (~2.4X increased resistance over nickel) on these critical connections. That said, I recently removed the heat shrink and inspected the build quality on both my packs. Two things troubled me: the balance lead 5mm connection measured 2.5mm, and more importantly, based on look/luster of the metal interconnects as well as the larger magnetic response compared to the pure nickel strips I had on hand, the interconnects appeared to be nickel-plated steel rather than the pure nickel claimed. The 2.5mm dimension discrepancy is much closer to the dimension of the known 2mm Begode nickel-plated steel interconnects, than it is to the 5mm pure nickel cell interconnect claimed. So that's another piece of evidence backing up my observations IMO (my "tear-down vid isn't hard to find if you're interested in the long-winded version). This was a disappointment to me, but to be fair, the packs have held up nicely so far with not just off-road abuse but also a partial water submersion. So I can't be all negative in my assessment, the opposite even. Just speaking about the RS specifically as it's my only hands-on experience, I think the extra care in padding around the battery pack cavity in the wheel shell also goes a long way in reducing the potential for accumulated damage from vibrations and impulse forces (think roof-level egg drops in elementary school where the most padded eggs survived the fall). I'm not sure if that's standard with Begode, a specific thing eWheels does for their wheels, or a LiTech treatment. I also don't know if my nickel-plated steel interconnects (my assessment) was a one-off mistake due to being from the first batch or if that's the standard build despite the claim otherwise. In any case, another reason I'm writing all this besides to inform is to put it out there in case anyone else decides to inspect their LiTech packs more closely. I'd like confirmation one way or the other on the state of their cell interconnects if other customers got pure nickel as claimed or nickel-plated steel. Edited September 13, 2022 by Vanturion 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0000 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 @supercurio, sorry I don't mean to distract from the main point of the thread, but it's something that's still bothering me when I see that advert now. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted September 13, 2022 Author Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) @Vanturion good point, I appreciate the results of your analysis! It's not meant as an ad, so if the specifications changed since the images were made and made some of the images on eWheels' website obsolete then I'm removing these. Edit: Done! Let me know if the images still linked show an accurate enough representation of the current pack's revision apparence and features. Edited September 13, 2022 by supercurio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0000 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, supercurio said: It's not meant as an ad, so if the specifications changed since the images were made and made some of the images on eWheels' website obsolete then I'm removing these. For sure, thanks. I know your post was just intended to help out the European market and if it leads to having the option to replace potentially less-than-ideal-safety older Begode battery packs and statistically reduce the possibility of EUC fires in the future, that's a great thing. How to word this - I think it was and is very commendable that eWheels made a big investment for improving the battery situation for BG wheels. I think everyone who's been paying attention can (and do) appreciate that. I also think that it's extremely easy to not get exactly what you ordered particularly without independently auditing random samples regularly to make sure what you are ordering is what is being delivered from overseas, China in particular, no matter the company/vendor/manufacturer you deal with. If my observations were correct, at least for the first batch, that could be exactly what has occurred. Pure speculation here. As a customer, I don't like being misled and seemingly not having been delivered what was promised. On the other hand, I want to see eWheels in particular succeed and thrive as they were the only vendor to address the pain point that was keeping me from owning a wheel. That inherently buys a lot of goodwill, from my perspective anyway. 4 hours ago, supercurio said: Edit: Done! Let me know if the images still linked show an accurate enough representation of the current pack's revision apparence and features. You don't need to change anything, but I could nitpick about the "Durable PVC Heatshrink" claim too as it didn't seem any more durable than standard heatshrink except it's colored black. It's hard to say without having an original BG pack on hand to compare this and the claim of stronger battery holders as well. On my LiTech packs there were plenty of rub marks and even a couple spots that had worn through to the cell wrapper at the corner on both my packs so I ended up reinforcing the edges with duct tape and used adhesive foam to protect the outer battery face from the shell ribs this time around. So to summarize, I don't like what I observed about the LiTech cell interconnect situation, but on the other hand I can't complain about my personal experience with the packs so far. Honestly, I think just the switch away from the LG cells, the padding around each side of the cell, and the implied increased scrutiny/QC during the assembly process are the biggest improvements protecting the packs from long-term use and abuse more than anything else. Anyway, since the LiTech topic came up, I thought I'd put this out there as I think it's fair for the public to be as informed as possible about the particulars of PEV batteries in particular, being critical safety products. Edited September 14, 2022 by Vanturion 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel1234 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 Yes, I would be interested in safer batteries but as well I am not convinced that LiTech is that much more safer than begode/immotion/kingsong bateries. features I am looking for: - Smart BMS with programable cutout - Real Active balancing working on low battery - Impact protection 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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