First EUC, narowed to KS16 and Tesla V3, advise?

[random_variable]

Hi Community,

An aspiring EUC rider here. Have been interested in hopping onto an EUC and wander around like a Tazmanain Devil for a few years now. Finally ready to pull the trigger. Did a lot of research, read a lot about options here and on the Internet and narrowed my options to KS 16s and Tesla V3.

I like the KS16 due to lower weight (I am too lazy to lug stuff around) and quality and reliability. Lower price is good but alone not a factor in my decision.

The Tesla has more room for growing into, more power and speed, although I expect I to operate my EUC around 20mph pretty much all the time, maybe burst to 25 on a rare coocation. The Tesla is heavier by 10 lb and may not be as reliable as the KS.

Then my question is from a beginners perspective, is one of these wheels easier to learn, more stable, safer, or more fun to ride than the other? I am 160lb 5'8".

PS I ruled out MCM5 V2 due to fiendishly difficult tire repair, and V10F due to being inferior to the Tesla in specs with very similar weight.

Please advise.

 

[RockyTop]

Both are good. The Tesla T3 has a bigger tire giving you a smoother ride ... and it is better off road. The 16s is still a great choice. 

[random_variable]

23 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Both are good. The Tesla T3 has a bigger tire giving you a smoother ride ... and it is better off road. The 16s is still a great choice. 

The specs I found on the Internet says the tire width on both wheels is 2.125" (and both are 16" as well). What do you mean by bigger tire on the Tesla?

[random_variable]

36 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Both are good. The Tesla T3 has a bigger tire giving you a smoother ride ... and it is better off road. The 16s is still a great choice. 

My bad - on ewheels site it says 2.150 versus 2.125, very slight difference.

[Richardo]

Both good. If neither has a feature that excites you enough to make you want that one, you could consider looking for whichever one comes on sale used first

[random_variable]

2 hours ago, Richardo said:

Both good. If neither has a feature that excites you enough to make you want that one, you could consider looking for whichever one comes on sale used first

Good advise - thank you Richardo.

[RockyTop]

If I am not mistaken the tire is actually closer to 17 inches tall compared to a true 16 inch on the 16s

[Funky]

19 hours ago, random_variable said:

Hi Community,

An aspiring EUC rider here. Have been interested in hopping onto an EUC and wander around like a Tazmanain Devil for a few years now. Finally ready to pull the trigger. Did a lot of research, read a lot about options here and on the Internet and narrowed my options to KS 16s and Tesla V3.

I like the KS16 due to lower weight (I am too lazy to lug stuff around) and quality and reliability. Lower price is good but alone not a factor in my decision.

The Tesla has more room for growing into, more power and speed, although I expect I to operate my EUC around 20mph pretty much all the time, maybe burst to 25 on a rare coocation. The Tesla is heavier by 10 lb and may not be as reliable as the KS.

Then my question is from a beginners perspective, is one of these wheels easier to learn, more stable, safer, or more fun to ride than the other? I am 160lb 5'8".

PS I ruled out MCM5 V2 due to fiendishly difficult tire repair, and V10F due to being inferior to the Tesla in specs with very similar weight.

Please advise.

 

20mph from 22mph limit. :S I hope you won't get a faceplant, cutout while riding. (More max speed = safer wheel in general.)

What do you plan to use it for? Simple city riding? What range you need?

I would look for a little bigger euc. As you would "outgrow" Ks16s and it's speed really fast. (Maybe you are okey buying new wheel in 1 year or so..) Maybe it's worth spending little more and getting something little bigger? Like 18xl/16x?

But that's my take.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Funky

[random_variable]

16 hours ago, RockyTop said:

If I am not mistaken the tire is actually closer to 17 inches tall compared to a true 16 inch on the 16s

Not according to its spec sheet, but the case is oval shaped thinner and taller compared to the KS16s.

[random_variable]

8 hours ago, Funky said:

20mph from 22mph limit. :S I hope you won't get a faceplant, cutout while riding. (More max speed = safer wheel in general.)

What do you plan to use it for? Simple city riding? What range you need?

I would look for a little bigger euc. As you would "outgrow" Ks16s and it's speed really fast. (Maybe you are okey buying new wheel in 1 year or so..) Maybe it's worth spending little more and getting something little bigger? Like 18xl/16x?

But that's my take.

Good points, I honestly do not know what kind of habits I will develop with an euc. That is why my focus on on these two wheels, which are kind of in the middle, not too basic but not too advanced either. If I like doing it, it is wonderful, do not mind upgrading it soon.

One thing I am certain about is that weight could be off putting to me, especially at the beginning. I do not want to ride a motorcycle, I fancy something light and airy, something that wont break my leg if it falls on it. So even the Tesla sounds too heavy, if it was at KS's weight I would buy it now.

[techyiam]

On hind sight, I would still start on a Begode T3. It turned out a lot better than what I had expected from reading the forums and watching the YouTube videos. I believe T3's 50 lbs weight should be manageable for a 160 lbs new rider. Note that it is not a top heavy wheel, unlike the V12. Regardless, for a person your size and weight, you should be able to adapt to it size and weight rather quickly. Most wheels after that will be heavier and more top heavy, if you want more performance. The biggest negative for me as a beginner was the wide width and hardness that made my shins hurt. It toook me about a month of riding and healing before I no longer feel pain. On the other hand, both my son and daughter have absolutely no pain with their shins from the first ride.

For your weight, 30 psi tire pressure should be a good starting tire pressure for you, since the rim dents incredibly easily. If you plan to do anything other than just learn to ride on a relatively smooth road, consider higher tire pressures. The reason you would want to put in less tire pressure is that it is usually easier to learn on.

On many euc's, you may experience wobbles as you progress initially, but not to worry. With the T3, more riding and some experimentation wiil  help you overcome the wobbles in short order.  I find the T3 to be a stable wheel, and relatively easy to learn on. IMO, for an absolute beginner, it will be a lot easier to learn on than let say, the Inmotion V12.

For a starter wheel, I thought the range and performance were decent enough, even for commuting. The only thing though, is that after you have progressed to a level when you are commuting at a better pace, you may find the small tire too jarring for bumpy side streets going over 25 kph. This is where I like the V12 better. 

Since you are in Seattle, it may be a good idea to put copious amount of marine grease on the outside of the dust seals of the wheel bearings to make it more splash resistant. Despite what some will say, the T3 hollow bore bearings do not have the extra rubber weather seal. They are still the large diameter ones with just the dust seals. As is, from the factory, I have no problems riding in rain as long as I don't go through puddles, and go slower through standing water. Inside the euc body, it was like mint after a few thousand kilometers. My wheel bearings rusted out only after I rode it for a couple weeks in the snow, slush and ice that had salt mixed in. Prior to that it was fine when I rode only in rain. Hence, I don't recommend riding the T3 in the snow, slush, etc. And lastly, it has been trouble free.

Edited March 29, 2022 by techyiam

[Funky]

My dad uses ks16s daily for work riding. Be rain/snow. Daily. Some free tips as mentioned thick grease around bearings/axle will prevent water ingress. +using "backpack cover" over euc it self = amazing job against rain.

I personally would get something bigger 17kg weight vs 24kg weight not much noticeable. + If there is no stairs, or what not, you don't need to carry, simply push it.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Funky

[techyiam]

23 minutes ago, Funky said:

using "backpack cover" over euc it self = amazing job against rain.

Hard to argue against this. It is so simple yet so effective. 

[Funky]

17 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Hard to argue against this. It is so simple yet so effective. 

Especially the ones made of stretchy material. It stretches over the euc like a glove. + So many colors to chose from. One day pink. Next day yellow, then white, then rainbow. xD

[meepmeepmayer]

I'd take a Tesla over a 16S. More power and speed. The V10F also exists.

[random_variable]

On 3/28/2022 at 11:38 AM, Funky said:

20mph from 22mph limit. :S I hope you won't get a faceplant, cutout while riding. (More max speed = safer wheel in general.)

What do you plan to use it for? Simple city riding? What range you need?

I would look for a little bigger euc. As you would "outgrow" Ks16s and it's speed really fast. (Maybe you are okey buying new wheel in 1 year or so..) Maybe it's worth spending little more and getting something little bigger? Like 18xl/16x?

But that's my take.

Good point about the max speed. I will have to reset my expectations.

I do not know yet how I will settle on using it. First I will ride it on the semi-urban bike trails, each about 15-20 miles long. Then I may try wandering the City on it, through dense urban areas, but this is less likely because I moved out of town and getting  there is a bit of a hassle now.

The only reason I am not going directly to a bigger wheel, such as the KS 16X or KS18 (love the suspension), is that I do not know how comfortable I will be with a heavy wheel. Or even how much I am going to like an euc to begin with. I fantasize riding something light and airy that takes little to no physical effort to control. Just like riding a car, but kind of outside of it. But I know from reviews and videos that this is not not the case, at least initially.

[random_variable]

11 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I'd take a Tesla over a 16S. More power and speed. The V10F also exists.

On paper, yes totally agree with you. But, this is for a learner's euc. I feel that the higher weight and the longer-width body of the Tesla might be a problem for me initially.

The V10F looks good, especially the wider tire, but it is also bulky, and more importantly for me, its disassembly for tire change is fiendishly complex. I could not do it if my life depended on it. Same for McM5, which I like on paper, but disassembly is simply infeasible to me. When the tire goes down, I may have to throw the wheel away.

[random_variable]

On 3/28/2022 at 11:19 PM, Funky said:

My dad uses ks16s daily for work riding. Be rain/snow. Daily. Some free tips as mentioned thick grease around bearings/axle will prevent water ingress. +using "backpack cover" over euc it self = amazing job against rain.

I personally would get something bigger 17kg weight vs 24kg weight not much noticeable. + If there is no stairs, or what not, you don't need to carry, simply push it.

Thanks for the tip.

No stairs for me, but I have this irrational fear of the wheel falling on my leg and crushing it. Until I learn to ride and get rid of the fear, I will not buy a heavier wheel.

[random_variable]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:15 PM, techyiam said:

On hind sight, I would still start on a Begode T3. It turned out a lot better than what I had expected from reading the forums and watching the YouTube videos. I believe T3's 50 lbs weight should be manageable for a 160 lbs new rider. Note that it is not a top heavy wheel, unlike the V12. Regardless, for a person your size and weight, you should be able to adapt to it size and weight rather quickly. Most wheels after that will be heavier and more top heavy, if you want more performance. The biggest negative for me as a beginner was the wide width and hardness that made my shins hurt. It toook me about a month of riding and healing before I no longer feel pain. On the other hand, both my son and daughter have absolutely no pain with their shins from the first ride.

For your weight, 30 psi tire pressure should be a good starting tire pressure for you, since the rim dents incredibly easily. If you plan to do anything other than just learn to ride on a relatively smooth road, consider higher tire pressures. The reason you would want to put in less tire pressure is that it is usually easier to learn on.

On many euc's, you may experience wobbles as you progress initially, but not to worry. With the T3, more riding and some experimentation wiil  help you overcome the wobbles in short order.  I find the T3 to be a stable wheel, and relatively easy to learn on. IMO, for an absolute beginner, it will be a lot easier to learn on than let say, the Inmotion V12.

For a starter wheel, I thought the range and performance were decent enough, even for commuting. The only thing though, is that after you have progressed to a level when you are commuting at a better pace, you may find the small tire too jarring for bumpy side streets going over 25 kph. This is where I like the V12 better. 

Since you are in Seattle, it may be a good idea to put copious amount of marine grease on the outside of the dust seals of the wheel bearings to make it more splash resistant. Despite what some will say, the T3 hollow bore bearings do not have the extra rubber weather seal. They are still the large diameter ones with just the dust seals. As is, from the factory, I have no problems riding in rain as long as I don't go through puddles, and go slower through standing water. Inside the euc body, it was like mint after a few thousand kilometers. My wheel bearings rusted out only after I rode it for a couple weeks in the snow, slush and ice that had salt mixed in. Prior to that it was fine when I rode only in rain. Hence, I don't recommend riding the T3 in the snow, slush, etc. And lastly, it has been trouble free.

Thank you Techyiam for your thoughtful comments and the tip for applying grease. Will definitely do. I am happy that you had a good experience with the Tesla as your starter wheel. The wideness of the body concerns me too. And the weight of course.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, random_variable said:

No stairs for me, but I have this irrational fear of the wheel falling on my leg and crushing it. Until I learn to ride and get rid of the fear, I will not buy a heavier wheel.

 

2 hours ago, random_variable said:

The wideness of the body concerns me too. And the weight of course.

I started on the T3 from nothing. If you are 160 lbs and 5'8" tall, in my opinion, the odds that the weight of the T3 being an impediment to your learning is very low. And after you learn to ride it, you will think that it feels rather light. Note that I did not learn to free mount at the beginning of the learning curve. That came after.

The width also can become a feature you may appreciate at a later point in time. This part is very subjective, though. For me, it turned out that I got used to it, and it worked well for me.

I have never seen any rider got their legs crushed. Also, I don't see how it is possible. You are starting from scratch, right? You need to understand how your feet, leg and body fall while you are learning. You will either step off or slip off the pedals. And then somehow, the metal pedals with give you some abrasion somewhere on your lower leg, or even some bruising. Even this part can be minimized, depending on the approach you take to learn.

Having said that, I do believe that a too heavy wheel can be an impediment to learning. However, for your size and weight, the T3 is should be fine. For example, the Sherman or the Abrams would be a mistake. Even a V12 would be a bit awkward.

I also believe the body can implicitly learn to balance on a bicycle or an euc, even much later in life, through practice using a sensible technique. I didn't do anything fancy, nor take much risk. I just practiced back and forth until my balance developed to a certain threshold (maybe like 5' at first, then 10 feet separation distance later, inside the house), than I went outside. (But every day I would continue to practice to balance at a lower and lower speed inside the house. Note that it was slow process for me.) I got a few of scratches, mostly from learning to free-mount at a later date. If I wore high cuts, and was more willing to dismount at stop signs, it would have been even less scratches or abrasions.

The trick is for your body to implicitly develop some balance first on an euc in a controlled environment. In this way, you can then learn to ride at a lower speed unassisted. And hence, minimize injuries. Of course there will always be different strokes for different folks. There are plenty of people who just jump on and go. And they can learn faster too.

Edited March 30, 2022 by techyiam

[Funky]

3 hours ago, random_variable said:

Thanks for the tip.

No stairs for me, but I have this irrational fear of the wheel falling on my leg and crushing it. Until I learn to ride and get rid of the fear, I will not buy a heavier wheel.

Believe me when you fall, you simply step off the wheel like "running" away. The wheel it self simply slowly flops on it's side. Have you heard someone have broken their leg because "euc" had fallen on it?  Anyways choose the one you think is better for your needs. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Funky

[.....]

18xl and done. Any wheel that is light enough to carry that it isnt a pita, is not going to be a wheel you use for multipurpose. Any wheel that is WAY too heavy, you won't want to lug into a car or up stairs. 18XL hits the mark for me. Its at the top of weight I care to manage, but easily maintains headroom for my 20-25mph rides. The next step up for me, was the Sherman, and its by far NOT a multipurpose carry wheel. I'm baised, as I dearly love my 18xl and am somewhat a weakling. I did try a 14m and a 16x for a moment. The 14M was dangerously underpowered. The 16x was nice, but seems geared to off-road a tad more than street. The Nikola is a fat and chunky wheel. The 18xl simply seemed like a jack of all trades, master of none... Wiat, is comfort a trade?

If you approach this hobby with the thought that it may not work out, you are stacking the odds against you. Approach this with conviction, and if it doesnt wind up to your favor, be surprised. Riding an euc has a steep learning curve for some. I'd say to assume you WILL figure this out and WILL enjoy it. Even if you don't, you can resell a wheel and not lose much.

Whatever you choose, just get to it. Sitting around waiting for the perfect wheel, will end in you losing more precious time. Either be saving for a wheel in particular, or pick one within your budget and get to it! I always suggest to buy a wheel that is MORE than you think youll need. Once you learn to ride, range/speed/overhead need to get bigger. You neednt go with some big badass cruiser, but you will more than likely want something that doesnt leave you upgrading for something similar, soon. If you do it right and the sickness sets in. You will find that you buy more wheels to supplement your first wheel. Tis much better than you having to 'replace' your first wheel, once the sickness sets in...

Edited March 31, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[random_variable]

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

18xl and done. Any wheel that is light enough to carry that it isnt a pita, is not going to be a wheel you use for multipurpose. Any wheel that is WAY too heavy, you won't want to lug into a car or up stairs. 18XL hits the mark for me. Its at the top of weight I care to manage, but easily maintains headroom for my 20-25mph rides. The next step up for me, was the Sherman, and its by far NOT a multipurpose carry wheel. I'm baised, as I dearly love my 18xl and am somewhat a weakling. I did try a 14m and a 16x for a moment. The 14M was dangerously underpowered. The 16x was nice, but seems geared to off-road a tad more than street. The Nikola is a fat and chunky wheel. The 18xl simply seemed like a jack of all trades, master of none... Wiat, is comfort a trade?

If you approach this hobby with the thought that it may not work out, you are stacking the odds against you. Approach this with conviction, and if it doesnt wind up to your favor, be surprised. Riding an euc has a steep learning curve for some. I'd say to assume you WILL figure this out and WILL enjoy it. Even if you don't, you can resell a wheel and not lose much.

Whatever you choose, just get to it. Sitting around waiting for the perfect wheel, will end in you losing more precious time. Either be saving for a wheel in particular, or pick one within your budget and get to it! I always suggest to buy a wheel that is MORE than you think youll need. Once you learn to ride, range/speed/overhead need to get bigger. You neednt go with some big badass cruiser, but you will more than likely want something that doesnt leave you upgrading for something similar, soon. If you do it right and the sickness sets in. You will find that you buy more wheels to supplement your first wheel. Tis much better than you having to 'replace' your first wheel, once the sickness sets in...

Good advise on the attitude. I have no doubt that I will learn it to ride well enough, but I do have a monkey's appetite (description below) so my interest may not last very long. Another issue I take with directly jumping to a terminal wheel is that, before developing a personal taste (lkes and dislikes) I could very well be jumping into the wrong wheel for me. To you it is 18XL, but maybe to me it is the S18 (like the concept of suspension).

I want this experience, decided to place the order on April 1st when I get paid.

Thanks for all the advise.

Appendix:

"Monkey appetite it is used to describe someone who gets bored quite easily, drops what they have been doing and starts something new. They are not necessarily lacking the skills to see the end of their work, it is just not exciting anymore so they drop it." ref Internet.

[random_variable]

18 hours ago, techyiam said:

 

I started on the T3 from nothing. If you are 160 lbs and 5'8" tall, in my opinion, the odds that the weight of the T3 being an impediment to your learning is very low. And after you learn to ride it, you will think that it feels rather light. Note that I did not learn to free mount at the beginning of the learning curve. That came after.

The width also can become a feature you may appreciate at a later point in time. This part is very subjective, though. For me, it turned out that I got used to it, and it worked well for me.

I have never seen any rider got their legs crushed. Also, I don't see how it is possible. You are starting from scratch, right? You need to understand how your feet, leg and body fall while you are learning. You will either step off or slip off the pedals. And then somehow, the metal pedals with give you some abrasion somewhere on your lower leg, or even some bruising. Even this part can be minimized, depending on the approach you take to learn.

Having said that, I do believe that a too heavy wheel can be an impediment to learning. However, for your size and weight, the T3 is should be fine. For example, the Sherman or the Abrams would be a mistake. Even a V12 would be a bit awkward.

I also believe the body can implicitly learn to balance on a bicycle or an euc, even much later in life, through practice using a sensible technique. I didn't do anything fancy, nor take much risk. I just practiced back and forth until my balance developed to a certain threshold (maybe like 5' at first, then 10 feet separation distance later, inside the house), than I went outside. (But every day I would continue to practice to balance at a lower and lower speed inside the house. Note that it was slow process for me.) I got a few of scratches, mostly from learning to free-mount at a later date. If I wore high cuts, and was more willing to dismount at stop signs, it would have been even less scratches or abrasions.

The trick is for your body to implicitly develop some balance first on an euc in a controlled environment. In this way, you can then learn to ride at a lower speed unassisted. And hence, minimize injuries. Of course there will always be different strokes for different folks. There are plenty of people who just jump on and go. And they can learn faster too.

You are right I have not seen or heard an ewheel crushing a rider. The strange thing is that, when I think of a heavy ewheel I think of a motorcycle, which brings to my ming images of riders falling to their side and sliding with their heavy bike under their legs crushing them. Just like a fell horse would crush its rider. Human mind works strangely some times

Thanks so much for the learner's tips. I will need them.

[.....]

12 minutes ago, random_variable said:

Good advise on the attitude. I have no doubt that I will learn it to ride well enough, but I do have a monkey's appetite (description below) so my interest may not last very long. Another issue I take with directly jumping to a terminal wheel is that, before developing a personal taste (lkes and dislikes) I could very well be jumping into the wrong wheel for me. To you it is 18XL, but maybe to me it is the S18 (like the concept of suspension).

I want this experience, decided to place the order on April 1st when I get paid.

Thanks for all the advise.

Appendix:

"Monkey appetite it is used to describe someone who gets bored quite easily, drops what they have been doing and starts something new. They are not necessarily lacking the skills to see the end of their work, it is just not exciting anymore so they drop it." ref Internet.

I wouldnt worry about losing your appetite for the euc. I also have the attention span of a gnat. Even so, the euc is one of those things that is happy to sit there for a few days and ready to go, when I am. Same as the skateboard, drumset, paramotor, motorcycle, snowboard...you see where Im going with this? I'm not as obsessed about the euc as I was in the beginning, but its still something I quite enjoy. Once the initial purchase is over, MOST euc's are a very little maintenance item. I have an mten that I try to ride a few moments daily. Even if I dont go anywhere, I ride it as an effort to at least do SOMETHING that will keep my ankles working.

I LOVE the concept of suspension. I LOVE the look of the s18. I'd LOVE to not expand upon it beyond that.

Edited March 31, 2022 by ShanesPlanet