Are One Wheels actually (potentially) safer than EUCs?

[Silverfish]

20 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Sideways stance vs forward facing. That’s all you need to know. Sideways is ALWAYS more dangerous then being able to locomote how nature intended. You fall sideways you break a wrist, dislocate a shoulder or fracture/break a collarbone. Why? Because you don’t have anything to absorb the impact in a sideways stance except your wrists or shoulder. 
 

In a forwards stance you fall, you take the impact with your knee guards and get right back up. Shoulder padding really doesn’t do much because the shock still travels somewhere. With the knees the shock has nowhere to go but be absorbed by the padding. 

On top of that I really don't like having my back to one side of the road. I don't ride on roads outside of quiet ones that rarely have cars. But even then I don't know how I would ever get used to turning left as a goofy rider. Even triple checking that lane it feels weird not having it in my visibility when I turn. One of the things I was looking forward to on an EUC was being able to easily look both ways before crossing a street.  

[redsnapper]

31 minutes ago, Menace said:

I have been planning on building a super capacitor to connect in parallel with my RS battery. It would be made from 40 2.7volt 500F super capacitors connected in series. It would hopefully increase acceleration, decrease voltage sag, take strain off of the batteries, and provide reserve power for unexpected bumps and such. Other things I have thought of but can not really diy are twin motor controllers (that would run simultaneously but could run individually if one is knocked out), dual motors (would sit side by side in the wheel, or could just be dual stators? Maybe they could even have different KV ratings such that one takes over when the first reaches max rpm?), Liquid cooling (I want to do this to the RS as well to help mitigate control board damage from overheating?), Thicker motor cables, and just overall a whole bunch of overbuilt and redundacy without adding more wheels. These are all things that manufacturers should be experimenting with to make wheels safer. The hall sensor less capability of the s20 is certainly a step in the right direction, I wonder if it can be brought to other wheels via firmware updates or if it requires special hardware?

https://hackaday.com/2021/10/03/supercapacitor-e-bike-with-diy-motor/

quite the project!

 

 

[EUC Sharkman]

3 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

Great comment, yes.  I have never had a cut-out either, but I understand exactly what it is that is preventing me from having an accident and I don't trust humans to build circuits, batteries and motors that will never fail.  Therefore I naturally want this industry to find a solution.  Look at the situation we have with the new Inmotion wheel's alleged cutouts.  They put out an official statement advising riders to ride at low speeds until their investigation is finished.  With some kind of fail-safe device built into all wheels, we wouldn't have to ride a new wheel with that fear. 

I am surprised to see so many people take a "It's good enough already" mindset.  I brought this same topic up a few years ago and none of us could think of a fail-safe design for EUCs but a few of us were into the idea and agreed it would be something worth pursuing.  No one can deny that it's a problem.  I bet engineers at EUC companies have spent many hours trying to think of a solution.  Imagine a wheel that looked and behaved like a normal EUC, but didn't drop you if there was an electrical fault.  Such a wheel would become the only wheel that mattered and all other wheel manufacturers would have to copy it or go out of business. 

Table saws are dangerous machines that for decades people just accepted the risks of using.  Then a company designed something that detects skin contact with the blade and pulls the blade down under the table in a fraction of a second, preventing amputations.  No doubt, before that was thought up many carpenters said "Respect the table saw - it's dangerous but we just have to live with that risk." while others got to work trying to solve it.    

If you're  talking about "a few years ago", and have Ninebots listed as the EUCs in your profile, then I kind of understand your mindset. I learned on a Ninebot One E+ a little over a year ago and had a hard time trusting that wheel going even over 10 mph. Still do actually, whenever I go back to ride it...it just feels underpowered. However, EUC power has increased dramatically over the past few years and as long as you pick a fairly tried and true model (not the occasional wheel that has cutout specific issues like mosfets in the InMotion v12) you dont even have to be all that careful to avoid cutouts.

 

I simply don't think that it's an issue that happens often enough that needs an elaborate solution.  It's a self balancing vehicle with one wheel, so there's gotta be trust in the electric components holding up in fairly reasonable riding conditions.

 

OneWheels are a different story though. Again, those are death traps in comparison. If EUCs failed as much as OneWheels nosedive in reasonable usage, no way I'd ride it at all. But that's not the case. 

[TantasStarke]

5 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

Yes, but in my opinion anyone willing to ride a small self-balancing device at 50mph is clearly not very concerned about danger. I would not even consider riding these things at that speed.  I almost never ride faster than 16mph.  Seeing someone break both his wrists when his wheel cut-out quite early into my EUC adventure was a good lesson for me.  And I have been thinking about how to solve this ever since.  It's an extremely difficult problem to solve.

The answer to solve it is to simply wear gear. Of all the things to make you fall off the wheel, a cutout (that isn't rider error) is by far the least likely, except maybe a meteor smacking you off lol.  People ride motorcycles and fall off going much faster than on PEV's, and the way to protect yourself is to gear up. Wear a motorcycle jacket, pants, boots, gloves, wear a neck brace or better yet a motorcycle air bag, and especially an ECE (or SNELL, but I prefer ECE) helmet. I frequently ride my Nikola AR+ to the point where it starts to beep, but I don't ride past that. If I had a faster wheel I'd ride faster, but I'd stop at the beeps. Will my recklessness with riding so close to the beeps catch up to me one day? Perhaps. Do I wear my gear? Yes. I always ride fully geared so that I can walk away with minor, or no injuries. Could something catastrophic still happen? Yeah definitely. Is it likely? Not really. The guy who broke his wrist, was he wearing wrist guards or motorcycle gloves with a slider? I highly doubt someone would break both their wrists if they wore the protection. 

[Silverfish]

1 minute ago, TantasStarke said:

a cutout (that isn't rider error) is by far the least likely, except maybe a meteor smacking you off lol. 

or inadequate mosfets

[RooEUC]

16 hours ago, Menace said:

Ok, it makes sense to me because if you slam the front brakes you will fly over the handle bars and it is the riders responsibility not to do that. Likewise it is the riders responsibility to not exceed the beeps, and a hardware failure is akin to the front wheel of a bike falling off (which would also throw you). Instead of putting a third wheel, you make the axle thick enough, the bolts tight enough, the rim strong enough, the balance of the bike such that you won't flip as easily. The electrical component failure is really rare, and could be made even more rare with more redundancies and beefier components. There will always be a mosfet that just fails, a front axle with internal weakness, a bolt that someone forgot to tighten; but that is a risk that can only be mitigated, not eliminated (whether it is cars, bikes, eucs, toasters, tvs, couches, phones, etc.).

Perhaps the onewheel is just a flawed design. There is too much leverage and not enough space for strong enough components, like how a penny farthing is far more likely to crash because of its geometry. 

Or perhaps the onewheel community and future motion are preventing any progress on that platform with their "its good enough" attitude, lack of active innovation, and patents.

Anyways, what I am saying is that companies need to improve their wheels, but we still cannot ride with no respect for the machine without danger (until we have force fields and levitators to catch us maybe?)

I appreciate your thoughts, Menace.  We certainly do need further safety developments and we certainly do need to respect, as you said, the limitations and risks that come with this form of transport. 

16 hours ago, Menace said:

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by RooMiniPro

[RooEUC]

14 hours ago, TheSlyGiraffEV said:

If you're  talking about "a few years ago", and have Ninebots listed as the EUCs in your profile, then I kind of understand your mindset. I learned on a Ninebot One E+ a little over a year ago and had a hard time trusting that wheel going even over 10 mph. Still do actually, whenever I go back to ride it...it just feels underpowered. However, EUC power has increased dramatically over the past few years and as long as you pick a fairly tried and true model (not the occasional wheel that has cutout specific issues like mosfets in the InMotion v12) you dont even have to be all that careful to avoid cutouts.

 

I simply don't think that it's an issue that happens often enough that needs an elaborate solution.  It's a self balancing vehicle with one wheel, so there's gotta be trust in the electric components holding up in fairly reasonable riding conditions.

 

OneWheels are a different story though. Again, those are death traps in comparison. If EUCs failed as much as OneWheels nosedive in reasonable usage, no way I'd ride it at all. But that's not the case. 

I trust my Ninebot S2 quite a lot because after thousands of kilometers I've never had even a hint of a cut-out.  I also like that it has a relatively low top speed and it only charges to 80% by default unless I choose to charge it to 100%.  The thing that troubles me is that these wheels can and do cut out.  And one day mine might drop me and break my bones.  How many times have you seen or heard of someone falling and getting at least somewhat hurt due to an EUC cutting out?  Now how many times have you seen or heard of someone falling or getting hurt because their bicycle malfunctioned?  Because of where and how I ride, I am not too concerned about having an accident that's due to my own mistakes or someone else knocking me off.  My main concern is a cut-out.  I have seen so many people wreck themselves in cut-out scenarios, especially on OneWheels, but also on EUCs.  I know cut-outs are rare and if one is careful not to over-lean or ride close to the maximum speed, it's even more rare, but it happens and when it does it's instant pain. 

Rare as it is, it's a hole that needs to be patched asap.  The guys who ride at 30-50mph weaving through busy traffic; I just can't begin to explain why someone would do that on a self-balancing device.  Maybe it's a lack of life experience (no offense) in the sense that they haven't witnessed any horrific road accidents or been badly hurt themselves.  I've seen a scooter rider being hit head on by a car and I still remember the sound his throat made as his chest broke and his lungs collapsed.  It didn't sound human.  I knew a motorcyclist whose head was run over by a bus.  She died. There was a British Youtuber in Thailand who took his girlfriend on the back of his scooter and they had an accident and her head was run over, which killed her.  As a child I saw a woman knocked down and her head run over by a car.  People from the houses nearby put a pillow under her head and the pillow turned dark red.  When they lifted her off, the bowl shaped impression in the pillow had filled up with a cereal bowl's worth of blood.  A year later I saw that woman walking with a metal framework built around her head and neck with posts screwed into her skull.  My point is that the roads are dangerous enough already and that's without the risk of a cut-out throwing us under a lorry.   

Riding an EUC is a bit like flying a helicopter.  In the rare case that an engine failure happens on a heli, it goes down and people get hurt.  When it happens on a plane there's the option to glide down to safety without power.  Even if all control of the plane is lost, it still glides and the pilot may have time to chute up and jump out.  I want EUCs to become more like planes than helis.  Hopefully we can figure out how to make that happen. 

Dual motor controllers, super capacitors and such are at least pointed in roughly the right direction. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by RooMiniPro

[RooEUC]

13 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

The answer to solve it is to simply wear gear. Of all the things to make you fall off the wheel, a cutout (that isn't rider error) is by far the least likely, except maybe a meteor smacking you off lol.  People ride motorcycles and fall off going much faster than on PEV's, and the way to protect yourself is to gear up. Wear a motorcycle jacket, pants, boots, gloves, wear a neck brace or better yet a motorcycle air bag, and especially an ECE (or SNELL, but I prefer ECE) helmet. I frequently ride my Nikola AR+ to the point where it starts to beep, but I don't ride past that. If I had a faster wheel I'd ride faster, but I'd stop at the beeps. Will my recklessness with riding so close to the beeps catch up to me one day? Perhaps. Do I wear my gear? Yes. I always ride fully geared so that I can walk away with minor, or no injuries. Could something catastrophic still happen? Yeah definitely. Is it likely? Not really. The guy who broke his wrist, was he wearing wrist guards or motorcycle gloves with a slider? I highly doubt someone would break both their wrists if they wore the protection. 

My best friend always geared up with the best gear money can buy to ride his motorcycle.  Post accident and years of surgery later he can walk, move his right arm well and his left arm well enough to cut his food and he has awful, deep and wide scars over his neck and face, metal plates, bars and pins in his body, is legally blind in one eye, is in pain 24/7 and will never work again. Now he's super careful and wishes he had been more risk averse before the accident.  We can never go back.  

So with utmost respect for your opinion, I disagree with you that the solution to cut-outs is to gear up.  Adding padding to hopefully reduce the damage inflicted by an accident that can be caused by a design problem does not solve the design problem.  Yes, gearing up is the best we can do right now, but it's not the end solution.   

Edited February 23, 2022 by RooMiniPro

[UniBlab]

 

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

Dual motor controllers, super capacitors and such are at least pointed in roughly the right direction. 

Agreed.

I still expect that people will be able to figure out a way to crash these things. Humans are good at that. Push back, tilt back, beeps, pedal dip... they keep me inside the operating envelope, but not everyone.

If an aircraft loses its airfoil or if the airfoil has its shape changed in the wrong way or the aircraft encounters terrain that it lacks the power to climb over, it's a single point of failure that will result in a hull loss. Same with all self balancing mechanisms... the challenge is to try to reduce the single points of failure to an acceptable level. Or eliminate them altogether—don't ride, don't take the chance.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Tawpie

[Menace]

Awful stuff happens in traffic, it is probably the most dangerous place in our society.

Honestly, I don't think it needs to be this complicated of a discussion. There are risks in everything. You can mitigate them. Doing stupid things increases those risks. It your responsibility to balance the risk and reward. 

As someone here said, people will always find ways to crash, the cutouts will never go away completely. Random hardware/and software failures are very rare, cutouts almost always happen because someone pushed the wheel too far. I think its more common yet to go down because of an obstacle or surface irregularity.

[TantasStarke]

23 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

My best friend always geared up with the best gear money can buy to ride his motorcycle.  Post accident and years of surgery later he can walk, move his right arm well and his left arm well enough to cut his food and he has awful, deep and wide scars over his neck and face, metal plates, bars and pins in his body, is legally blind in one eye, is in pain 24/7 and will never work again. Now he's super careful and wishes he had been more risk averse before the accident.  We can never go back.  

So with utmost respect for your opinion, I disagree with you that the solution to cut-outs is to gear up.  Adding padding to hopefully reduce the damage inflicted by an accident that can be caused by a design problem does not solve the design problem.  Yes, gearing up is the best we can do right now, but it's not the end solution.   

Agree to disagree ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[VikB]

I had a OW for a few months and have an EUC now. Just a few thoughts:

• OW is less likely to burn my house to the ground
• OW is safer riding on loose/soft terrain
• OW is safer for someone to try and learn
• OW is safer due to lower top speeds
• OW is safer since you can install nose wheels
• EUC is safer to get on/off once you are past the beginner stage
• EUC is safer at medium speeds since it has lots of power left
• EUC is safer on steeper terrain as you can't nose dive like a OW
• EUC is safer since it's harder to overpower machine without realizing it
• EUC is safer since you can program the alarms at speeds you want vs. presets

I don't think there is a clear winner. You can select scenarios where the OW would be safer. You can also select other scenarios where the EUC would be safer.

[Tawpie]

When it all comes down to it, I'd say a OW is a safer choice for a casual rider that is looking for something to do a couple three times a month. But once you catch the bug and view the device as 'transport' or 'xtreme sport', OW gets dangerous more quickly than does EUC as a general class of device. I say 'class of device' because I believe that an MTen that's viewed as transport or something for xtreme sport usage is uber dangerous from the get go... much more dangerous than a OW because it does the Gotway dance, features Gotway over-power "protection" (none really), and because it is so spritely it tempts you to exceed its capabilities even more so than a OW.

The thing about OW that is problematic in my mind is that like an eScoot it doesn't seem like you can get badly hurt because it's pretty easy to learn. I find that easy to learn hides the actual danger from your consciousness and that's why for instance, most OW riders are content with skater gear. If they wear anything at all. Besides, you rarely fall down on the actual ground learning to ride OW, where most people (but not all… there's that envy thing rising in me again) will meet pavement early and often learning EUC.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Tawpie

[Darrell Wesh]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

When it all comes down to it, I'd say a OW is a safer choice for a casual rider that is looking for something to do a couple three times a month. But once you catch the bug and view the device as 'transport' or 'xtreme sport', OW gets dangerous more quickly than does EUC as a general class of device. I say 'class of device' because I believe that an MTen that's viewed as transport or something for xtreme sport usage is uber dangerous from the get go... much more dangerous than a OW because it does the Gotway dance, features Gotway over-power "protection" (none really), and because it is so spritely it tempts you to exceed its capabilities even more so than a OW.

The thing about OW that is problematic in my mind is that like an eScoot it doesn't seem like you can get badly hurt because it's pretty easy to learn. I find that easy to learn hides the actual danger from your consciousness and that's why for instance, most OW riders are content with skater gear. If they wear anything at all. Besides, you rarely fall down on the actual ground learning to ride OW, where most people (but not all… there's that envy thing rising in me again) will meet pavement early and often learning EUC.

Your entire post is a contradiction. If it seems easier to ride then that fools riders into going out shirtless with sandals on and getting hurt badly. That makes onewheel more dangerous. Period. 
 

EUC is less dangerous precisely because of the inverse of what you stated about one wheels-an EUC hides nothing about how difficult it is to ride and because of this inherent difficulty you gear up more and pay special attention to the warnings(beeps and tiltback) and don’t believe that you’re invincible from injury. 

[Paul A]

The perception by riders affects the rider.

The perception by riders does not actually affect the one wheel itself.

[Darrell Wesh]

3 hours ago, VikB said:

I had a OW for a few months and have an EUC now. Just a few thoughts:

• OW is less likely to burn my house to the ground
• OW is safer riding on loose/soft terrain
• OW is safer for someone to try and learn
• OW is safer due to lower top speeds
• OW is safer since you can install nose wheels
• EUC is safer to get on/off once you are past the beginner stage
• EUC is safer at medium speeds since it has lots of power left
• EUC is safer on steeper terrain as you can't nose dive like a OW
• EUC is safer since it's harder to overpower machine without realizing it
• EUC is safer since you can program the alarms at speeds you want vs. presets

I don't think there is a clear winner. You can select scenarios where the OW would be safer. You can also select other scenarios where the EUC would be safer.

Uh…. Everything you said that’s safer about onewheels you go on to contradict yourself by saying EUC’s are safer-just rewording the statement. 
 

We can ignore the burning the house to the ground part if you avoid Begode. 
 

-Onewheel is not safer then an EUC in loose terrain because- surprise! There are multiple tire options you can fit on an EUC from REAL tire manufacturers(like continental, shinko, Michelin). Want an off road tire? Plenty of options that make it superior to a onewheel off road. Onewheel has next to no options for tires except a generic slick and tread option. Because you’re controlling the lateral motion on an EUC, unlike a onewheel you can skillfully save yourself in slippery situations. 
 

-Onewheel having an easy to moderate learning curve doesn’t automatically make it “safer” for beginners. In fact it’s the opposite. Like escooters, an easy learning curve gives riders no reason to think of using protection and gives them a false sense of skill that results in early injuries. On an EUC you really can’t even go fast enough to hurt yourself if you don’t have total control. Same reason why easy to use hoverboards caused so much injury, step on step off products are NOT safer for beginners. Steep learning curves are. 
 

-Onewheel being safer due to low top speeds is entirely user dependent and can’t be used as a fact. If you limit your EUC to onewheel speeds then it automatically becomes safer then a onewheel. Onewheel having lower top speeds is more dangerous because the motor can be cutout very easily compared to an EUC.

-Nose wheels.Lol. No comment. These are already proven to not do anything except at super slow speeds. 

 

[RooEUC]

28 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Uh…. Everything you said that’s safer about onewheels you go on to contradict yourself by saying EUC’s are safer-just rewording the statement. 
 

We can ignore the burning the house to the ground part if you avoid Begode. 
 

-Onewheel is not safer then an EUC in loose terrain because- surprise! There are multiple tire options you can fit on an EUC from REAL tire manufacturers(like continental, shinko, Michelin). Want an off road tire? Plenty of options that make it superior to a onewheel off road. Onewheel has next to no options for tires except a generic slick and tread option. Because you’re controlling the lateral motion on an EUC, unlike a onewheel you can skillfully save yourself in slippery situations. 
 

-Onewheel having an easy to moderate learning curve doesn’t automatically make it “safer” for beginners. In fact it’s the opposite. Like escooters, an easy learning curve gives riders no reason to think of using protection and gives them a false sense of skill that results in early injuries. On an EUC you really can’t even go fast enough to hurt yourself if you don’t have total control. Same reason why easy to use hoverboards caused so much injury, step on step off products are NOT safer for beginners. Steep learning curves are. 
 

-Onewheel being safer due to low top speeds is entirely user dependent and can’t be used as a fact. If you limit your EUC to onewheel speeds then it automatically becomes safer then a onewheel. Onewheel having lower top speeds is more dangerous because the motor can be cutout very easily compared to an EUC.

-Nose wheels.Lol. No comment. These are already proven to not do anything except at super slow speeds. 

 

No offense or anything is intended here, but your last two posts make it seem like you are taking a "my favourite thing is way better than your favourite thing" mentality that so many people take, the us versus them thing, like the people who argue about iPhone vs Android.  It comes across like you own EUCs and do not own a OneWheels and therefore you feel EUCs are better.  Some people feel the need to defend their purchase decisions by speaking badly about the alternative.  We actually see this all through society, in politics, vaccine discussions, tech, music, DC vs Marvel, and so on. 

Your comment where you said Onewheels are more dangerous, period; I don't think there should be the "period" part as that implies that it's an objective fact that isn't up for debate.  I think it is open to opinion and debate and the level of danger of one versus the other can be subjective. 

[RooEUC]

4 hours ago, VikB said:

I don't think there is a clear winner. You can select scenarios where the OW would be safer. You can also select other scenarios where the EUC would be safer.

I completely agree with you there.

7 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

Agree to disagree ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Agreed :)

[Darrell Wesh]

16 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

No offense or anything is intended here, but your last two posts make it seem like you are taking a "my favourite thing is way better than your favourite thing" mentality that so many people take, the us versus them thing, like the people who argue about iPhone vs Android.  It comes across like you own EUCs and do not own a OneWheels and therefore you feel EUCs are better.  Some people feel the need to defend their purchase decisions by speaking badly about the alternative.  We actually see this all through society, in politics, vaccine discussions, tech, music, DC vs Marvel, and so on. 

Your comment where you said Onewheels are more dangerous, period; I don't think there should be the "period" part as that implies that it's an objective fact that isn't up for debate.  I think it is open to opinion and debate and the level of danger of one versus the other can be subjective. 

Not at all. I post rational arguments as to why EUC is superior in terms of safety, easily refuting any claims people come up with as to how a onewheel could be safer, with logical counteepoints. There is no debate objectively. EUC is safer. 
All the onewheel advocates care about is how-subjectively-their ride feels more fun, more “cool” then an EUC. And that’s fine. But don’t argue about safety when plenty of people have labeled onewheels the most dangerous PEV. 

[VikB]

On 2/24/2022 at 3:32 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

Uh…. Everything you said that’s safer about onewheels you go on to contradict yourself by saying EUC’s are safer-just rewording the statement. 

 

Life can be contradictory at times. That's why simple ideas and solutions fail a lot. Unfortunately people have trouble holding more than one conflicting idea in their heads at a time. 

Let me save you some time and type your reply for you "No definitely not! It's very simple EUC more saferest than everything ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!"  

[.....]

On 2/22/2022 at 10:26 AM, RooMiniPro said:

Yes Tawpie, you seem to have understood what I mean. 

I know that, at least as far as my unscientifically acquired perception goes, there seem to be more accidents happening on OneWheels than on EUCs, but this is probably due to factors like; 1. There are more OneWheels out there. 2. Because of leverage and limited motor power, the chance of overloading a OW is higher.  3. OneWheels don't seem to have great early warnings designed in, such as beeps and strong tiltback.

But my point is that there is a very significant design difference that gives the OneWheel the potential for being safer in a cut-out scenario.  I'm not saying they cut out less or that people have less accidents on OneWheels than on EUCs, because that's apparently the opposite of what's true.  But with that extended platform out front, there's the potential for some form of mechanical redundancy that is impossible on EUCs.  When an EUC cuts out you just go down.  There's no other result.  You may be able to run it off if you happen to be riding at a low speed (unlikely most of the time), but you're not staying on the wheel, no matter what.

On the OW, so far we have sliders and fangs.  They provide a small, small chance of being able to stay on, but are hardly a great solution to the problem.  With them being so small and fixed right onto underside of the front lip, the board has to fall down forward as a severe angle for them to make contact with the road and that just throws most people forward and off anyway.  But there's room for improvement.  The big problem I see is that the motors are under-powered for the amount of leverage being applied.  The wheels have to be limited in their circumference which may be why we don't see 2500w motors in the OneWheel, unlike with EUCs which can have 16",18", 20" circumferences and more powerful motors inside.  But imagine a OneWheel that was as reliable as the best EUC, with the same beeps and tilt-back, the same (proportionally to the leverage) amount of torque and so on.  All other things being equal, that front extended platform and the possibility to have some wheels flip down and keep the rider rolling has a lot of potential for safety in a cut-out scenario over an EUC.

Obviously I haven't put a team of engineers and a $250,000 R&D budget on this, but look at this drawing.  A spring loaded arm and wheel that tucks underneath.  A spring loaded latch that's closed when there is power going to it (electromagnetic) and open when power is cut to the motor.  As soon as power is lost, it springs out and latches into place.  Of course I haven't actually thought out the exact mechanisms involved, but no one is paying me $50k a year to do that right now.  Some average engineer could come up with an elegant way to do this. 

How much grip can be applied to the fender of a one wheel, by ankle pressure? If a one-wheel doesnt have a fender (as in the image), I suspect you are merely staying on by gravity. Does road debris up the crotch and in the face, count as a danger? I see a tiny but of concave to the platforms, but not enough to consider it a point of much help in keeping feet ON a onewheel. On my euc, I can grab with my ankles and even all the way up to just below my knee. Hell, I can yank the euc back with my hands even. There's a solid body to leverage against to keep me balanced and the same body can be used to keep my feet plated during a high speed bump in the road. Because of the leverage points of an euc, I think it may also assist on staynig in tune with the angle needs of a specific turn. I've ridden skateboards enough to know.... you aint staying on it once you encounter ANY pot holes, or road chatter at speed. An euc also lets you set the angle of the pedal. With a slight rear angle, it somewhat mimics the characteristics of having a little concave on the front of your pedals.

I dont think the massive OW budget has mostly been directed at R&D. Theres a LOT of costs in USA companies, and its no secret that OW has those+ a massive marketing budget.  Price and quality somewhat go hand in hand, but defintely arent linear or a given.

In the end, there's going to be no difinitive answer. Asking which one is 'potentially' safer, makes it an even cloudier question. Potentially as in future revisions on same theme, or potentially, based on rider and useage? Neither is safer than the other in ALL circustances. For my typical uses and how my riding mentailty ranges from reasonable to retarded, the euc is overall the safer choice. However, you take a different person with different riding intent and you may find the opposite. To complicate things further, we have MANY euc's and some more closely relate to the OW (the mten does) than others. Limiting speeds and weights and power isnt a great example, as it depends on how its being ridden. If slower means safer, then I guess the mten is almost the safest wheel around. The baby 67Vmten is slower than the OW, so I guess it wins.

Edited February 26, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[Mr Dilkington]

I have a lot of experience with both, and I can tell you that I feel MUCH safer on an EUC. I don't necessarily think the OW is a dangerous device if you truly stay within the limits, but very few people do, and with the learning curve being so low, it gives people too much confidence and a false sense of security. I ride with and often coordinate group rides that include both EUCs and OWs, and over the last 3 years, I have helped put 5-6 people in ambulances from OW injuries, and zero from EUC injuries. And one of those OW injuries resulted in the death of a good friend. I think OWs are quite safe if you keep them under 20 mph, wear a helmet, and you understand the physics of the board and how it works. But most people don't.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Mr Dilkington

[redsnapper]

6 hours ago, Mr Dilkington said:

And one of those OW injuries resulted in the death of a good friend.

Sorry to hear that - was this the result of a head injury? Was the rider wearing a helmet?

[Paul A]

https://www.pintas.com/blog/electric-onewheel-skateboard-shuts-off-suddenly-kills-texas-man/

Electric Onewheel Skateboard Shuts Off Suddenly, Kills Texas Man

The family of a Texas man filed a wrongful death suit in May 2020 because of defects in his Onewheel electric skateboard that suddenly stopped short while he was riding it, resulting ultimately in his death.  

The man was brought to the hospital for numerous injuries after he was propelled face-first onto the pavement while riding the scooter. The brain trauma injuries the man sustained from the fall proved fatal; he was pronounced dead at the hospital during surgery. 

The man, who is survived by a wife and son, experienced a sudden stop while using the skateboard. This sudden stop feature, related to the “pushback” of the unit’s safety system, is built into the scooter’s mechanics. This built-in safety feature is believed to be a defective feature for these types of scooters and is thought to be the reason that the scooter made a hard stop. Additionally, given that the scooter can reach such high speeds, the immediate stop may not be able to protect users adequately and is a topic for disagreement on whether it even works as a safety feature for these electric scooters.  

The suit mentioned above was filed in May 2020 by the man’s widow and comes a year after the injuries that proved fatal for the Texas man.