18s compared to v11

[Richardo]

Shopping for used wheels, there are so many s18's floating around, sometimes going for relatively steep discounts over the new price, but I almost never see a v11.

I've seen people online saying the s18 is a decent wheel but they could never go back once they ride the v11, stuff like that. 

Have you ridden them both? Can anyone explain what it is that makes the v11 so much better?

 

edit: in case anyone searches this topic, there are a bunch of youtubes that could have answered my question

Edited September 29, 2021 by Richardo
original title was too incendiary, include link to a youtube answer

[mrelwood]

Keen observations!

1) Suspension. Searching for “S18 suspension overhaul” at this forum should shed further light onto the matter. In short, while the design of the S18 suspension mechanism is great, the assembly is completely trashed.

2) Battery. Besides having by far the smallest battery capacity of any modern EUC, having only three parallel cell groups has a maximum current output that is simply too low for many of us.

3) Comfort. The integrated side pads try to force the rider’s posture into something that is unusual for most riders.

4) Quality. A prototype level quality is seen all over the wheel’s construction. Parts rattle and drag, handle is impractical, most other tires won’t fit, requires several mods including covering the motor cable that can otherwise get damaged with regular use, fender alignment is tricky, and so on. On many units the shock drags on the fender, the fender drags on the shell, tire drags on the fender, etc.

 All the above issues have been there for long over a year, since day one, and they still haven’t been fixed by KS.

[mrelwood]

Oh, I didn’t even get to the V11 positives yet!

A new V11 oozes quality I haven’t seen or felt with any other wheel. Parts fit well together, and everything is firmly in place. Nothing rattles.

 The V11 suspension works pretty well right from the start. Once you get used to the higher riding height, everything else feels dangerously close to pedal clipping. The notification sounds can be fully customized or even turned off (the S18 beeps about 10 times every time you power it up and connect to a phone app, using the same beeper and volume that alerts you for reaching the max speed at 50km/h). The riding mode adjustments on Inmotions are three lifetimes ahead of the rest. While short in range in some situations, the headlight of the V11 is like nothing else. The manufacturer has been active in listening to customers (RIP “Go Home mode”) and fixing the issues that have come up.

 And so on. The V11 is a joy to own. The difference to the S18 is so obviously huge on so many levels that it feels wrong to compare the two. But since most people are forced to choose without experiencing either wheel in person, the S18 still sells.

Edited October 19, 2021 by mrelwood

[FinRider]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

1) Suspension. Searching for “S18 suspension overhaul” at this forum should shed further light onto the matter. In short, while the design of the S18 suspension mechanism is great, the assembly is completely trashed.

This is a sad fact. I have a 1st batch (pre-order) S18 and I expected this from my wheel. Suspension was basically non-functioning. I had to completely dis-assemble the wheel to "free up" the movement. Replaced probably 30-40 screws, added nylon sliding washers, removed locking washers etc. After the overhaul it works great though! KS has apparently not been following this board a whole lot as there is a mammoth-thread regarding how to overhault the suspension. All new wheels still have the same issue to various degrees.

 

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

2) Battery. Besides having by far the smallest battery capacity of any modern EUC, having only three parallel cell groups has a maximum current output that is simply too low for many of us.

This is also a fact. Battery definitely could be larger, especially if you are a heavier rider. I am only 80kg geared up, so for me the range is acceptable at about 60-65km per charge.

 

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

3) Comfort. The integrated side pads try to force the rider’s posture into something that is unusual for most riders.

This is a matter of taste. I am bow-legged, so I actually added another 1 cm piece of foam to the outside of the integrated pads to make it fit my riding style. to each their own.

 

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

4) Quality. A prototype level quality is seen all over the wheel’s construction. Parts rattle and drag, handle is impractical, most other tires won’t fit, requires several mods including covering the motor cable that can otherwise get damaged with regular use, fender alignment is tricky, and so on. On many units the shock drags on the fender, the fender drags on the shell, tire drags on the fender, etc.

See point one in my reply regarding the suspension. Other issues are a slightly misaligned fender that rubs a bit. I run a H-666 tire without issue and my buddy has a Heidenau K-66. It had a slight rubbing that disappeared after about 250km of riding. tight fit, but it is managable. And like @mrelwood stated, custom parts are almost required to keep the EUC in good working order. I have 3D printed motor cover and sliding bar seal protections. Easy to make if you have access to a 3D printer, but a hassle. Should not be a deterrent in my opinion.

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

And so on. The V11 is a joy to own. The difference to the S18 is so obviously huge on so many levels that it feels wrong to compare the two. But since most people are forced to choose without experiencing either wheel in person, the S18 still sells

If you ask or get a response from a V11 owner, then they will rave about it. If you ask and get a response from an S18 owner who has overhauled the suspension, then they will rave about it. We are all fanboys and want to justify our expensive purchase. 

I do disagree with @mrelwood on this statement though that you can not compare the wheels. We all have different criteria for what we want out of a wheel and I can honestly say that I would be equally happy with a V11 or S18. I am a casual rider though, only racking up about 1500 km or so each season.

The S18 should have a buyer-beware sticker added to it. In order to make it functional you will have to do some TLC to it. But once that is complete it is a joy to ride.

 

 

[mrelwood]

41 minutes ago, FinRider said:

If you ask and get a response from an S18 owner who has overhauled the suspension, then they will rave about it.

Even the S18 users who have a sticking stock suspension will rave about how marvelous the suspension is, if all they have to compare it to are non-suspension wheels. I’ve seen this so many times. And it’s no wonder, it still is a bit better than no suspension at all. But if they then get to ride a stock V11, or if they get to compare the models before buying, the most common comment has been “OMG, the V11 is like riding on a pillow!”

 Once the S18 suspension is thoroughly overhauled, it does work better than the V11 suspension. The V11 doesn’t have a same kind of an upgrade path available, so what you get is basically what you get. Great for most riders, but can be insufficient for heavy hard core off-road riders, who can make the V11 mechanism wear out prematurely.

 But that is only the suspension. Before the V11, I was much more into individual specs and features of the wheels. Now I experience and compare the wheels much more as a whole entity.

I definitely do wish that my V11 had an S18 style suspension, because for me working a few dozen hours on improving the suspension would be a fun journey. But I would never pick the whole entity the S18 is over the V11 entity even for the fixable suspension, because I consider so many other aspects of the S18 seriously lacking as well.

 Since the S18 doesn’t have the mentioned “buyer beware“ sticker, I do hope that it will vanish sooner than later now that the S20 is creating a buzz, which Inmotion will surely respond to as well. I’m trying to be hopeful that KS has been able to learn about their S18 mistakes, and that the S20 would be a much more complete and better functioning product the moment it is unboxed. Too bad that the S20 weight will be too much for many riders though.

[XaXou]

I've been able to ride both V11 and S18 for enough time to give you my impressions here.

I first bought the V11 last year before having to get rid of it because of the bearings. Then I got the S18 to replace it.

V11  : 

* Issues (approx 2000 km) :

- Motherboard failed after a few days of riding. Had to replace it.

- I broke the suspension during stairs riding. Had to replace it.

- Bearings failed after a few month of riding because of water ingress. I got the motor replaced under warranty. The new bearings failed after one week. I got rid of the wheel. 

* Suspension : Great for regular street riding, stairs and jumps, terrible for off road, cobblestones or any sort of rough terrain. 

* Build quality : Good

* Ride : Accelerates and brakes fine. Wobbly at high speed and during hard braking. Clumsy for technical  riding, partly due to very high pedals I'd say.

* Rain : Wheel is IP55 but only for electronics. Bearings are poorly designed and will fail sooner or later except if you avoid any water.

* Desing and comfort : Comfort is great, but design makes it difficult to install proper ankle pads (for the back of the ankle specifically). It contributes to make this wheel pretty clumsy for technical riding.

 

S18 : 

* Issues (after 1000 km)

- Motherboard failed on the first day of riding. Had to replace it.

* Suspension : Great and very responsive for every type of riding. However if you do not spray the various suspension moving parts regularly with suspension spray it will feel terrible. I'm not sure the suspension is designed for heavier riders (at least for stairs, jumps and technical things) : I weight 63 kg (without equipment), I pumped suspension to the max (300 psi) and I still bottom it out on big jumps or steep stairs.

* Build quality : Ok but finish is not great. But who cares after all?

* Ride : Accelerates and brakes fine. Very stable at all speeds. Very agile and nimble for technical riding and tricks. Good torque at low speeds. At high speeds I'd not advise to accelerate too much, especially for heavier riders. 

* Rain : Good for riding in the rain, but before to do so, you'll need to improve motherboard water sealing, which is mediocre out of the box. 

* Design and comfort : Not so comfy out of the box, but easier to customize than V11. After installing proper padding (leg and ankle), comfort is as good as V11 but control is much greater. + this wheel looks badass and will help you to pick up chicks.

 

If it helps, check my insta @chapeaux.de.roue, there are footages of both wheels.

Edited October 19, 2021 by XaXou

[Finn Bjerke]

Another good thing about the V11 is the SEAT, seated riding is such a joy on that wheel. But the ( rather expensive ??) seat serves another function, if you squeeze the seat with your knees or legs you get a very powerfull acceleration factor plus the wheels is much easier to turn.  Get the seat and the stud pedals for V11. KS S20 is exciting news but I will never ever buy a batch1  EUC. wait and see how it turns out.