MSX 100V 1845Wh?

[Ashrel]

Hello, 

Who created these versions? They doesn't exist in my country so i don't know if it's one by gotway or not, and if it's safe or not.
Is it really worth the upgrade from classic 84V/1600Wh? I'd get more top speed and a bit more range but it won't change reactivity, right?

Thanks
 

[Johnycle]

Hi Ashrel,

I purchased the 100v 1845WH from green and fashion travaling shop in Ali Express in July of this year and received it one month later. They modified the original 100v 1230 and put in the additional batteries. I have been using it every week since then and have over 400 miles on it now and have not had a problem. I do 70% normal roads and 30% off road and i am loving it. Depending on the hills and how much i push it I can do between 45-60miles.  One thing I have not tried is top speed.. for me between 25-29miles per hour feels comfortable so i dont need to go any faster. Hope this helps! 

[Ashrel]

Thanks for your reply

That's exactly what i was considering (both model and vendor) ! Well, i don't see how adding batteries could change anything ?
I'm not really concerned about top speed either, for me 50km/h is enough (for the moment :p), but what about acceleration?

[Johnycle]

I dont think there is a difference in acceleration 84 vs 100: The benefit with the 100v is that there is no alarm/tilt back if you hit 32+ miles per hour. I like to have some extra speed when i am riding, I dont like feeling i am on the limit.  

If you are looking for more acceleration maybe a 16inch wheel might be better. I tried the KS16x and it felt very nimble and quicker to respond.. but I still prefer the MSX

[ZenRyder]

I

1 hour ago, Johnycle said:

I dont think there is a difference in acceleration 84 vs 100: The benefit with the 100v is that there is no alarm/tilt back if you hit 32+ miles per hour. I like to have some extra speed when i am riding, I dont like feeling i am on the limit.  

If you are looking for more acceleration maybe a 16inch wheel might be better. I tried the KS16x and it felt very nimble and quicker to respond.. but I still prefer the MSX

I also prefer the MSX, but I disagree that there is no difference between the 84v vs 100v acceleration. And @Marty Backe also agrees per this post...

 Several others have confirmed that the general consensus is that the 100v accelerates (and decelerates) faster than the 84v. So,  I don't think that range/top speed is the only advantage of 100v. The benefits are many. Some will argue, with various degrees of success, that acceleration is a safety advantage. But it's hard to argue that faster deceleration is NOT an important safety feature.

[Aneta]

I've set up this Simulator example to compare 84V (20s) vs. 100.8V (24s). I made the batteries the same Wh capacity (so that 24s battery has the same number of cells, they're just repackaged to have more series and less parallels). Also, the max battery current is lower by the same 1.2x factor.

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?batt=cust_84_0.2_24&cont=cust_100.8_120_0.03_V&wheel=18i&mass=120&hp=0&blue=Lbs&autothrot=false&throt=100&frame=cust_1_0.02&grade=0&cont_b=cust_80_120_0.03_V&batt_b=cust_100.8_0.288_20&wheel_b=18i&frame_b=cust_1_0.02&mass_b=120&hp_b=0&bopen=true

As one can see, up to 30kph the thrust (=acceleration) is the same and is limited by controller's phase current limit. After that, 100V indeed has higher acceleration (due to proportionally lower back EMF because the no-load speed is higher at 100V than at 84V).

Edited November 5, 2019 by Aneta

[ZenRyder]

6 minutes ago, Aneta said:

I've set up this Simulator example to compare 84V (20s) vs. 100.8V (24s). I made the batteries the same Wh capacity (so that 24s battery has the same number of cells, they're just repackaged to have more series and less parallels). Also, the max battery current is lower by the same 1.2x factor.

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?batt=cust_84_0.2_24&cont=cust_100.8_120_0.03_V&wheel=18i&mass=120&hp=0&blue=Lbs&autothrot=false&throt=100&frame=cust_1_0.02&grade=0&cont_b=cust_80_120_0.03_V&batt_b=cust_100.8_0.288_20&wheel_b=18i&frame_b=cust_1_0.02&mass_b=120&hp_b=0&bopen=true

As one can see, up to 30kph the thrust (=acceleration) is the same and is limited by controller's phase current limit. After that, 100V indeed has higher acceleration (due to proportionally lower back EMF because the no-load speed is higher at 100V than at 84V.

It's very interesting and somewhat comforting to see an advanced electrical simulation that confirms what rider experience has shown. However, I think it's safe to say that the more complicated relationships between torque, load, thrust, and phase voltage is over the heads of the average rider (including my more basic electric knowledge). I'm happy to trust the real world experience over any theoretical emulation.

May I ask your profession which lends to such an in depth understanding of the EUC components of batteries and power?

[Aneta]

4 minutes ago, ZenRyder said:

It's very interesting and somewhat comforting to see an advanced electrical simulation that confirms what rider experience has shown. However, I think it's safe to say that the more complicated relationships between torque, load, thrust, and phase voltage is over the heads of the average rider (including my more basic electric knowledge). I'm happy to trust the real world experience over any theoretical emulation.

May I ask your profession which lends to such an in depth understanding of the EUC components of batteries and power?

I wish I had such an in depth understanding of the EUC components of batteries and power, but I don't. I'm trying to learn various aspects by using the Motor Simulator, it's a good learning/experimenting tool.

[ZenRyder]

2 minutes ago, Aneta said:

I wish I had such an in depth understanding of the EUC components of batteries and power, but I don't. I'm trying to learn various aspects by using the Motor Simulator, it's a good learning/experimenting tool.

Well, while we're learning then, why does the motor power watts show it going way over the 2000w power that it's rated for? Is this a limitation of the simulation or does the simulation represent that the motor is able to handle a surge of power that is much higher that its rating?

[Ben Kim]

2 hours ago, Aneta said:

I've set up this Simulator example to compare 84V (20s) vs. 100.8V (24s). I made the batteries the same Wh capacity (so that 24s battery has the same number of cells, they're just repackaged to have more series and less parallels). Also, the max battery current is lower by the same 1.2x factor.

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?batt=cust_84_0.2_24&cont=cust_100.8_120_0.03_V&wheel=18i&mass=120&hp=0&blue=Lbs&autothrot=false&throt=100&frame=cust_1_0.02&grade=0&cont_b=cust_80_120_0.03_V&batt_b=cust_100.8_0.288_20&wheel_b=18i&frame_b=cust_1_0.02&mass_b=120&hp_b=0&bopen=true

As one can see, up to 30kph the thrust (=acceleration) is the same and is limited by controller's phase current limit. After that, 100V indeed has higher acceleration (due to proportionally lower back EMF because the no-load speed is higher at 100V than at 84V).

Correct, at lower speeds its not much of a difference.  For speed junkies (like me) the thrust we get north of 25 mph (40 kmh) is well worth owning 100V.  

I'm happiest riding in the 30-35 mph range myself.  Everyone has their own level of comfort and that's totally okay.

[Ben Kim]

1 hour ago, ZenRyder said:

Well, while we're learning then, why does the motor power watts show it going way over the 2000w power that it's rated for? Is this a limitation of the simulation or does the simulation represent that the motor is able to handle a surge of power that is much higher that its rating?

Because you are comparing peak power to nominal.  The motors can't sustain more than 2000 (or 2200 for KS) watts for long periods of time or the motors may potentially burn.  A nominal rating is defined as the power at which point the motor can be run indefinitely without any damage.