Whats inclines can EUCs actually climb?

[Jerome]

To say there is no consistency in specifying an EUC's climbing capability is an understatement. Incline degree angles and slope percentages are used interchangeably. In looking at some of the newer-powerful EUCs coming out I am trying to compare oranges with oranges. 

Canton Ave. in Pittsburgh, PA — 37% gradient

Eldred St. in Los Angeles, CA — 33.30% gradient

Filbert St. in San Francisco, CA — 31.50% gradient

To name a few.

Now according to King Song the KS 18L can climbed a 35 degree incline which = 70%!

The lowly INMotion V10F can only manage 30 degrees or = 57%

Oh, the poor Z10 , Tesla, only 25 degrees = 47%

Looking at the above the 25 degrees for the Z10 and Tesla sounds reasonable for a very light rider. I don't know what to make of the V10F and 18L specs. If they are percentages and not degrees, the V10F would struggle to make it up Filbert Street and perhaps stop/over-heat on Eldred and Canton Ave. Does that sound right? The 18L could handle all hill saved Canton??  If the V10F and 18L specs are truly degrees, they can fly up Canton Ave at a brisk pace??? I have been to Canton Ave and I couldn't walk down it front ways. I had to walk backwards or perhaps duck walk. It's steep. Hawaii has a road that is 45% and cars and MC are not allowed only 4wd vehicles and .. V10F and KS 18L??? Has anyone in LA tested Eldred Street?  I know someone has done Filbert Street .. what about Canton Ave? Having done tens of thousands of miles on other PEVs I know that a short 30% climb is more doable many times than a long 15% climb. What "experiences" have my fellow riders had regarding their EUCs climbing capability? Please include rider's weight and approximate length of climb.  

 

[meepmeepmayer]

• Depends on rider weight. Simplifying, the main effort in inclines is lifting the rider's weight. Power is proportional to that.
  So, 20kg wheel + 60 kg rider (80kg overall) can do 15% incline with the same power requirement that a 100kg rider (120kg overall) has on 10% incline.
  In other words, incline statements do not make sense by their very nature. Much like "max speed" statements which also depend on rider weight, unless the wheels always locks at a certain speed (like the V10, KingSong S models, etc).
  In the end, only the power ceiling that the wheel can provide to the motor matters.
• Also, if we ask what slope a wheel can do, the important question is "For how long?". Pretty much any wheel can do short crazy steep climb (my ACM does that with ease), provided the motor is strong enough. But longer inclines are the real test. And of course it still depends on rider weight.
  So the ultimate question is: "What is a wheel's continuously achievable power ceiling?" (Just like the Ecodrift guys more or less measured on their test rig. Not sure about the continuous or it was more like peak.). Currently, that seems to be mostly limited by the quality of the electronics, so no mosfet blows or other electronics failure happens. And the wheel should not overheat (board sensor) ideally, but that is still better than the board failure it prevents.
  (Motors are stronger than the electronics, even though we don't know much about their long term overheating behavior because the electronics stop before that becomes an issue.)
• The manufacturers' incline statements are probably only from them doing tests, where we know neither the rider weight nor the length/duration of the incline. And as you said, they also seem to confuse angle and incline percentage sometimes.
  So in other words, pretty much useless if you want reliable, reproducible information. The quality of the electronics (and battery size, a small battery can't push enough current for what may be needed) is what we can guess the slope capabilities from, and these manufacturer tests should be seen as a proxy for electronics quality.
  Seems to be getting pretty good on the new wheels, looking at the new GW boards and what KS is going to be doing in the 18L In the end, if no mosfet blows or cable melts (maybe with the help of an overheat alarm, ideally because the parts just can take anything thrown at them), that's all that is needed for climbing.
• (There was a video of an 18L on a really steep incline, 70% sounds about right. But we don't know the rider weight.)
• (Motor power seems to be what makes an climb comfortable with a margin vs. pushing a wheel to its torque limits. Marty did get the 18S up his overheat hill, but it was a slog, whereas the V10F was much more nimble going up, even though it overheated shortly before the top.)

So TLDR, only trust what other riders with a realistic weight tested, like Marty's overheat hill comparisons.

[Jerome]

I'm in total agreement  with your excellent response. ?

[Esash]

I still say the advertised max hill angle numbers are a decent starting point for understanding a wheel's general hill climbing ability. 

A wheel advertised as 25 degree max incline angle will rarely/never outperform a wheel advertised with a 30-35 degree max incline.

Just as a 1900 watt motor will usually be advertised as 2000 watt, these companies aren't about to undersell their wheels' hill climbing ability either. If a wheel is advertised as 25 degrees, you can bet it'll blow a mosfet or stop moving forward entirely on the steeper hills that other high torque wheels specialize in.

I'm mildly skeptical that the KS18L is a superior steep hill climber to the V10F, but I have little doubt it's better on the steep hills, and less prone to mosfet meltdown, than the Tesla or any other 25 degree wheel.

The Z10 is going to be a dud on the steep hills compared to the V10F or KS18L.

[ir_fuel]

I rode my mten3 on the streets of Montreux, Switzerland, and those are steep. Just make sure you don't do this with < 50% battery or you'll have to slow down a lot.

This being said, it did drain the battery quickly. Not really an EUC that was built with that kind of usage in mind, but it got me where I wanted to go  

 

[Esash]

24 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

I rode my mten3 on the streets of Montreux, Switzerland, and those are steep. Just make sure you don't do this with < 50% battery or you'll have to slow down a lot.

This being said, it did drain the battery quickly. Not really an EUC that was built with that kind of usage in mind, but it got me where I wanted to go  

 

The MTen3 might be the best steep-hill EUC out there, as long as the hill is short and the surface is perfectly smooth. Somebody should take it to Canton St

Canton Ave. in Pittsburgh, PA — 37% gradient

[ir_fuel]

I guess the small wheel diameter helps.

[Esash]

31 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

I guess the small wheel diameter helps.

Yup, smaller the wheel diameter, the higher the instant torque, I believe. That's why I'd be surprised if the KS18L (35 degrees) is actually better on really steep hills than the V10F (30 degrees), as King Song claims