JeremySPFF

So, your problem is that the video is bad and you don't like the actors? But you do agree some of the testing was objective? As you can see, I already said it wasn't perfect. It is however an example of objective information. Before you put more words in my mouth, the video also has subjective information. Again, personal attacks are a clear sign you have no real ammo in an discussion. I get it, you guys dont really want me around. I'll see myself out.

I am not. All I am saying is that it is subjective. Subjectivity is not useless or irrelevant, its just not the same as objective. In general, my argument is that most of the information on EUC's is subjective and we should also add objective data to the results to get a better picture.

Yes, my subjective view is that I look for objective information to make a decision. This is what I am trying to explain. The problem is you don't understand the difference between objective and subjective. You still don't understand, objective data is measurable. If Kuji runs 5.8, that is one datapoint, when we group all riders data points, we get a collective picture. Objective data isnt always correct but it is ALWAYS MEASURABLE, when viewed with other objective results we get a clearer picture. Subjective is when Kuji says 'this feels fast to me'. I cannot measure how it feels to him. I am so glad you asked. Eevee's just posted a video with some good objective information and testing. Not perfect, but a lot better than only subjective information. This is just your opinion. In my opinion, the video above gives me a lot more of what I need. Acceleration tests are what I am looking for. Maneuverability tests are what I am looking for. Stress tests are what I am looking for. Comparison's where both wheels undergo the same tests are what I am looking for. You can argue my preference is wrong, but you cant say the tests aren't objective unless you don't understand what that means. You can always tell someone is losing an argument when they try to put the other person down.

I have come to the same conclusion. My original question has also been answered in an easy to understand way that explains the technical differences between voltage by soulson.

Thank you, this is the easiest to follow technical information I have heard.

I understand and disagree with what you and others are saying. Just because it hasn't been done on an EUC yet doesn't mean it can't. All of the points people are bringing up are personal preferences, or complaining about the accuracy of the testing, or are things that can be accounted for. We can easily factor out the things everyone is saying, like tire differences (use the same tire on both), rider differences ( use the same rider, in the same gear), wind differences (use a tunnel or closed track). I do agree that we cant be absolutely sure every watt was used, but that doesn't mean we should throw out that data. I am looking for objective data instead of subjective. If all you need is subjective reviews to make a purchase, that is great, but not me and I'm not sure why everyone is trying to convince me that I shouldn't expect it. If air drag makes the video unusable for you, that is your preference and you can throw those results out. I would much rather have objective and direct comparison videos that are slightly scientifically flawed, than subjective individual reviews. I really liked when he did this, it was exactly what I was looking for, and it helped me make a decision on a wheel. Unfortunately he doesn't post often and I think he dropped the acceleration tests.

Exactly. If you are looking for xy and z, that's great for you. I am looking for more information to help me make an educated purchase. Again, it's relevant to me and most likely a lot of other riders, that's the point of the post and the data I am looking for. If you don't need it, that's great, but why are you trying to convince me that I don't need it?

What if your use case is 'I want the fastest wheel?'. How do you go about determining what wheel that will be? No, thats why I am asking for data and not feelings. If Kuji rode both of the wheels, and timed himself on both, you would probably take that as a good test of performance, regardless if you can do it. I cannot push a corvette as fast as a professional driver, that doesn't mean the 1/4 mile time is useless to me. The throttle and brake are handled differently, but those points are not relevant. Again, if I cant reach the pedals on a corvette because I am too short, I still know its faster than the mustang.

I'm saying, in fact, that empirical data is useless. Empirical data is not supported by peer reviewed evidence and is solely the observations of one rider without a system(like 0-30 time). I'm not trying to say the EX20 is faster than the EX30, I can assume the EX30 is faster, but I can't prove it. Based on my empirical data, I have never seen an EUC outside of Florida, therefor no other EUC riders exist not in Florida. That's a silly statement right? That's the statement being made currently.

The definition of empirical data is 'relying on experience or observation alone often without due regard for system and theory'. I feel like everyone is missing the point. If I were to compare two cars, like a corvette and mustang, I could easily search and see the horsepower ratings, the 0-60 time, and the 1/4 mile time. I would never go to uncle george and ask him which one feels faster. https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/corvette-2022 0-60 - 2.8 seconds 1/4 mile - 11.2 Horsepower - 490 https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/mustang-2022 0-60 - 4.4 seconds 1/4 mile - 12.8 Horsepower - 450 Why do we accept the marketing jargon of EUC companies and feelings of reviewers to determine which wheel we select? 134v means nothing unless tested. There is an easy and clear way to determine performance. I am going to attempt to compare the EX30 with the Sherman-S with stock tires, a neutral rider, and a set distance.

I don't see how his feelings answer the question. If I were to say I disagree and the EX20HT has much more torque than the EX30, how would you prove me wrong? You can't prove a feeling wrong. I am looking for data to compare instead of feelings to determine what the 100v vs 134v difference is. I get to see my first EX30 tonight or tomorrow. Does anyone have any recommendations on a fair acceleration test?

Would you mind doing an acceleration test for your channel for both the wheels? I would like and subscribe if you did

Good Points on all the others, but I hit those electrons from 0-60 almost every light. haha. Most people with performance cars that are serious do like to test them at the track.

Most times I hear them laboring to breath, or they have a bell, or their crank makes a lot of noise. When I rode bikes I just went around and said 'on your left', plenty of people got spooked. It's why I moved to the music. I guess if you get mad at me for the 10 seconds I go past you I can manage. I find it more considerate to have the music playing, but to each their own. It's just sound. I generally play what the trip calls for. If there are a lot of kids I play PG-13 music. We have had this same problem in our group where some people say they don't like it. We did a poll and about 90% either enjoy the music, or think personal music is ok.

In general I agree, however I think just because something can do it, it doesn't make it enjoyable. When I had my V11, it was significantly easier to get around on and off the sidewalk, walking into stores (which allows me to talk to more people about EUC's), getting it into my car, getting it up the stairs and such. The Sherman-S is a joy to ride and has power to burn, but its a monster. It's not so much that its heavy, its just unwieldy. I hate taking it in stores because its more like an ebike. I don't want to leave for lunch because it's kind of a chore, similar to a car. All the great things about EUC's have at least partly to do with how convenient they are. Getting up to 40MPH takes all my concentration and feels a lot more dangerous that cruising pleasantly at 25. It isn't worth the trade off for me. I would rather get up 10 minutes earlier and really enjoy my commute than just try to race in to work. If I wanted to do that I could use my car. 10 miles takes 25 minutes at 24MPH. 10 miles takes 15 minutes at 40MPH. Inmotion really needs to improve the already great V11 and come out with an V11F version. The only improvements it needs are a coil suspension similar to a thinner SS, a bigger\wider place to put pads, a smart BMS, and a slightly larger battery.