Rising challenges for manufacturer: Standards, patents, copyright

[OliverH]

With the story of Segway suing a German dealer on basis of a Segway patent and the suing of Solowheel against Ninebot in China (Ninebot One Model C/E) we see a new wave of patent wars going beside the more commercial usage of our beloved toys.

If we go ahead we can imagine what can go one with Copyrights. Who has really the right on the firmware he uses?

With the rising of new standards like UL-2272 or upcoming PLEV how many manufacturers are able to keep on track and manage the new requirements? I think we see more and more concentration to less manufacturers in the international sales.

I had yesterday the discussion with a distributor acting in Europe. They're realizing the challenge. Even with their knowledge (still have a type approved eKickboard) they're seeing the approach of working together with partners because of the lack of support/ understanding of markets/ regulations movement from current manufacturers.

Anyone out there with crystal ball to have a look where the journey goes to?

 

 

[lizardmech]

The smart thing would be for the smaller manufacturers to focus on selling components for hobbyists to assemble and use open firmware. The market would look much like drones and ebikes, very large companies sell complete ready to use units that are expensive, user built ones will have much higher performance and value but too difficult for normal consumers.

Not that any of them will try that, I expect smaller ones to be forced out of the market. Maybe ninebot and inmotion will survive. I can't remember how much financial backing inmotion has, it will probably end in 9bot + one of the chinese startups. 

[EUC-Lover]

From my point of view the biggest challenge is to realize manufacturers in Europe. We need to search / find / convince existing companies to develop and produce EUCs that are in accordance with the (perhaps) upcoming rules / regulations / requirements, or on the other hand, find and convince "rich people" who will act as start-ups and built such a company from scratch. 

Only Chinese companies alone will most likely not manage to fulfill all requirements worldwide / in the different european countries. The only one I could think of might be Ninebot who recently bought Segway.... 

[esaj]

1 hour ago, EUC-Lover said:

From my point of view the biggest challenge is to realize manufacturers in Europe. We need to search / find / convince existing companies to develop and produce EUCs that are in accordance with the (perhaps) upcoming rules / regulations / requirements, or on the other hand, find and convince "rich people" who will act as start-ups and built such a company from scratch. 

Only Chinese companies alone will most likely not manage to fulfill all requirements worldwide / in the different european countries. The only one I could think of might be Ninebot who recently bought Segway.... 

Nice idea, but I doubt the actual manufacturing would move to Europe... research & development probably, maybe assembly, but manufacturing costs are too high? Even China is said to be already losing manufacturing to cheaper countries...

[EUC-Lover]

Agree! My wording was not that clear as I suspected it'd be... 

One example is the hybrid technology of a big Japanese car manufacturer: Toyota. The real manufacturing of the Auris and RAV4 hybrid versions is placed in the UK. They concentrated on the knowledge and understanding of that special technology and decided to go there. Other Toyotas, as the Auris Diesel versions, are build in Turkey... "Everybody" can build diesels... ?

That is what I was thinking of. 

Other car companies, eg. VW/Audi etc. also build their cars in other countries also, but the focus / the decision makers etc. are Europeans (in that case Germans)... 

I (probably) never would mind the production of the EUCs would remain in China, if they (as +OliverH already quiet often mentioned) would listen to requirements and issues we have in Europe. But they obviously unfortunately neither don't have the understanding nor the willing to do so (*identify* issues / problems / regulations / requirements  - *address* them to the right people to find solutions - *review* the proposed solutions with the appropriate people / countries / Regulatory Offices - *take action* to implement the solutions - *implement*). 

[OliverH]

2 hours ago, esaj said:

Nice idea, but I doubt the actual manufacturing would move to Europe... research & development probably, maybe assembly, but manufacturing costs are too high? Even China is said to be already losing manufacturing to cheaper countries...

Full AcK. If they act further as up to now there will definetly a shift in Product management/ marketing and maybe development/ integration over to Europe. We need a step in the right direction and not a blocker. This could end in ODM deals. But if we look at Uniwheel it must be done in the right way.

[OliverH]

On 26. August 2016 at 8:03 PM, EUC-Lover said:

Agree! My wording was not that clear as I suspected it'd be... 

One example is the hybrid technology of a big Japanese car manufacturer: Toyota. The real manufacturing of the Auris and RAV4 hybrid versions is placed in the UK. They concentrated on the knowledge and understanding of that special technology and decided to go there. Other Toyotas, as the Auris Diesel versions, are build in Turkey... "Everybody" can build diesels... ?

That is what I was thinking of. 

Other car companies, eg. VW/Audi etc. also build their cars in other countries also, but the focus / the decision makers etc. are Europeans (in that case Germans)... 

I (probably) never would mind the production of the EUCs would remain in China, if they (as +OliverH already quiet often mentioned) would listen to requirements and issues we have in Europe. But they obviously unfortunately neither don't have the understanding nor the willing to do so (*identify* issues / problems / regulations / requirements  - *address* them to the right people to find solutions - *review* the proposed solutions with the appropriate people / countries / Regulatory Offices - *take action* to implement the solutions - *implement*). 

I hate to say it, but in my opinion/ my understanding if all went as before we see some more rise in sales and then it's a failing curve.

I go over to France (Meet me and my kids sunday from Basel to Kembs on Euro Velo 6 on our EUCs) to make a ride or a real off-road short trip over here. I can't use it as I like to use it. Sales is so low over here as no one can address the regulation issue. So no one like to buy it. Pioneers and freaks business, not main stream/ volume sales. Europe can generate much more sales as Asia with the right safe EUC meeting regulations. 

I'll try to establish a round table in Switzerland to join forces and get in discussion with gov to see how we can reach an intermediate solution or in general how we can get away from the principal of maximum requirements (safety) to a as safe solution as necessary on a risk based analysis.

[mhpr262]

On 26.8.2016 at 7:25 PM, esaj said:

Nice idea, but I doubt the actual manufacturing would move to Europe... research & development probably, maybe assembly, but manufacturing costs are too high? Even China is said to be already losing manufacturing to cheaper countries...

Interestingly, that is changing again right now. Automation and robotics have made such giant leaps in the past couple of years that it becoming incrasingly profitable to move manufacturing back to industrialized countries. Even super difficult stuff like clothing articles that had to be mostly made by hand until now. Adidas is currently getting an absolutely futiristic, almost fully automated shoe manufacturing plant up and running, in Germany, of all the high-cost-of-labour countries.

That is very bad news for the developing countries though, for whom the clothing industry has been the jumpstart method for the escape from poverty into an industrialized society for decades. They will be left with nothing.