NOSFET APEX-01

[PourUC]

29 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

Looks like they did everything they could to make the lightest EUC possible while removing components that are less often used. The absence of any sort of pads, or even a decent pad mounting surface is also a bold move. The absence of a trolley handle is really a puzzling decision, because sometimes trails are so rocky that you have no choice but to trolley it through certain parts of a trail. Yes, one could just walk it instead, but a trolley handle would really come in handy so I'm a bit disppointed in that decision from a trail riding perspective.

 

The lack of seat mounting options are also a bummer. If they include a seat kit, then that's awesome and it would render my complain moot. But it appears that Nosfet has negated any option of riding seated with this wheel, which is a big red flag for me. This will be an enthusiat wheel for sure - made exclusively for trail riders and racers, but not for casual riders who want to "chill" on their wheel. in short, it seems like a formula 1 car - stripped down to its bare necessary materials to ride effectively while saving as much weight as possible.

Considering the Lynx exists still, anyone who would rather not go for max off-road can get that instead. It's obviously still a viable jack of all trades.

Re seat mounting, I dare you to make one out of duct tape like a hammock =D

[Punxatawneyjoe]

IP rating?   UL rating? @NOSFET Electric Dreams

[Skampster]

Not a lynx killer. 

[DavidB]

6 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

IP rating?   UL rating? @NOSFET Electric Dreams

You can forget about that. UL testing costs a bomb. I imagine it is the same for IP rating. 

Edit: From Electric Bike Report.

"For a company in a rush to bring an e-bike battery to market (see our guide to e-bike batteries for more information), UL certification represents a not insignificant cost. The laboratory that performs the tests required will charge somewhere between $15,000 and $20,000 and will need to be supplied with 52 battery packs – a substantial expense in its own right.

In addition to the financial cost associated with e-bike UL certification, the lab performing the tests will need 10-12 weeks to conduct the tests and issue a report on their results. "

So that is just for UL 2271 for the battery. UL 2849 is for the ebike. I imagine an EUC would require this or something similar which I suspect is even more costly than the UL 2271. 

To keep the certificate there are ongoing fees. 4 factory visits/year $3000 (each visit?) plus license fees for each item with sticker.

Edited Sunday at 08:02 AM by DavidB

[Rawnei]

55 minutes ago, DavidB said:

You can forget about that. UL testing costs a bomb. I imagine it is the same for IP rating. 

According to this slide IPX6:

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, Skampster said:

Not a lynx killer. 

Since Leaper Kim is involved in some capacity in this first wheel of Nosfet, it shouldn't be surprising that the Apex was never intended to be a Lynx killer.

That's not to say that Apex won't make some conquest sales to the detriment of Lynx's sales numbers.

Although the Apex looks to share the same motor drive system as the Lynx, the chassis design is entirely different. The basic chassis layout seems to be a more premium, and enhanced knockoff of Master's basic chassis design. You have your centrally located telescoping tubular sliders with the stanchions poking out at both ends. A battery pack on either side, a controller housing on top, and a linkage attached to the rear.

I won't be surprised if the Apex and the Lynx will have different ride characteristics. 

For some, the 150mm suspension travel, and a true rising rate suspension linkage out-of-the-box may be a compelling reason to choose the Apex over the Lynx.

As for myself, since I have interest in the Lynx, I own it to myself to test out the Apex too. And because my use-case is quite straightforward, it will really come down to my own biases as to which wheel I would prefer. And so I would have to test ride the Apex to know whether it will be my top choice for my next wheel. 

[Milordas]

the pedal hangers looks suspicious.. easy to beat your axiles

[Paul g]

1 hour ago, Milordas said:

the pedal hangers looks suspicious.. easy to beat your axiles

     That is a questionable design indeed. Those hangers can hurt the ankles. An other thing that I observed is that the bottom of battery cases have bolts sticking out of them. That is a bad design for off roading as they can snap or be bent when hitting the rocks. That bottom part design can still be improved by just making the bottom cover thicker (using plastic) so that screws become buried in, or making some ridges on the perimeter of the bottom piece that would place the screws in a recessed area. Using screws that have less protruding heads would also help reduce the issues.

[Funky]

25 minutes ago, Paul g said:

     That is a questionable design indeed. Those hangers can hurt the ankles. An other thing that I observed is that the bottom of battery cases have bolts sticking out of them. That is a bad design for off roading as they can snap or be bent when hitting the rocks. That bottom part design can still be improved by just making the bottom cover thicker (using plastic) so that screws become buried in, or making some ridges on the perimeter of the bottom piece that would place the screws in a recessed area. Using screws that have less protruding heads would also help reduce the issues.

Bottom part needs to be flat and smooth.. Take look at all off-road vehicles. They got smooth thick protective plate going whole bottom length. So it can slide over rocks and what not. Otherwise they would get caught by a rocks, fallen trees, or worse something getting damaged.

Same thing needs to be made for EUC battery cases and anything that is under/lower than pedals. Having screw heads popping out is just DUMB! Yes i will say it again - IT'S DUMB!!! Something that simple got overlooked.. 

Edited Sunday at 05:51 PM by Funky

[Punxatawneyjoe]

28 minutes ago, Funky said:

Something that simple got overlooked.

Yes , i agree. Just the rocks being thrown up at the heads of the screws would make them unusable after awhile. Also i don't get the "innovation". To be able to raise and lower suspension. Are people really using their off road EUC for racing? And if so , wouldn't you have to change the tire every time also? Ive used the pilot street 2 off road and it sucks but the Kenda sucks on the road. I don't want to feel like I'm constantly bashing this "new" EUC but Jack has had no issues over the years criticizing other company's products so he should have no trouble with taking a little himself.

[meepmeepmayer]

Looking forward to this wheel in the hands of testers! Looks nice, seems nice, pretty impressive they managed a Lynx-level wheel as their first.

Any indications on price anywhere?

[onewheelkoregro]

14 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Looking forward to this wheel in the hands of testers! Looks nice, seems nice, pretty impressive they managed a Lynx-level wheel as their first.

Any indications on price anywhere?

$5,000 USD

[Robse]

7 minutes ago, onewheelkoregro said:

$5,000 USD

 

[Funky]

54 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Yes , i agree. Just the rocks being thrown up at the heads of the screws would make them unusable after awhile. Also i don't get the "innovation". To be able to raise and lower suspension. Are people really using their off road EUC for racing? And if so , wouldn't you have to change the tire every time also? Ive used the pilot street 2 off road and it sucks but the Kenda sucks on the road. I don't want to feel like I'm constantly bashing this "new" EUC but Jack has had no issues over the years criticizing other company's products so he should have no trouble with taking a little himself.

Like people will be racing wheel in first place.. Yes some will, but there will be much more people off-roading and things like that. Followed by simply cruising around for longer rides. Racing will be the very last thing people will be actually doing on this wheel. Marketing wheel for racing and off-roading is just dumb. Any wheel can be used for those activities. 

Market something that people will actually be doing on the wheel on daily bases. Not stupid racing that maybe 1-5% out of all wheel user will actually do.

Comfy suspension, where you feel like riding on clouds - will sell more wheels than "racing". (Like words matter and people look at marketing in first place. People who have brain will explore the market and get best bang for buck deal. Or something that is tested and is very good, like veteran wheels.)

 

Also price 5000$ (if it's true) - go get bent - you will close faster than this whole "company" idea took place. This is your first wheel without any reviews or creditability behind your name. This wheel will cost 3500$. Or best 4000$ not a cent more.  Good Luck - all i can say. 

Edited Sunday at 07:24 PM by Funky

[Paul g]

    They test the market. Nobody will pay (too much) more than for a Lynx ($4000)- and the Lynx probably has the best profit margins in the market right now and it’s a tank of a wheel (good long term investment). Maybe at $4100 will have more appeal 😉

Edited Sunday at 07:30 PM by Paul g

[Skampster]

Personally, I think EUC racing is the stupidest sport ever invented, and I love EUC’s. I just can’t make myself watch it, it just looks retarded. . 

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, onewheelkoregro said:

$5,000 USD

Somehow I don't believe that

[Funky]

12 minutes ago, Skampster said:

I just can’t make myself watch it, it just looks retarded. . 

Most sports are btw.. You watch how crowd run around trying to hit a goal or win something.  

[Robse]

24 minutes ago, Skampster said:

Personally, I think EUC racing is the stupidest sport ever invented, and I love EUC’s. I just can’t make myself watch it, it just looks retarded. . 

sorry ot, but;  I think EUC racing is a really good sport, precisely because the essence lies in the finesse of being able to take the sharpest turns at the highest speed without the wheel slipping out. Anyone can ride fast in a straigth line, but because there is only one wheel, there is no margin to experiment with, and if you slip, you cannot save it. Try pushing yourself through a turn with as much speed as you dare.....

[onewheelkoregro]

I just pulled the next highest number because 2 years ago I couldn't imagine spending over $3000 on an EUC and now we have $4,000 eucs

[Funky]

55 minutes ago, Robse said:

and if you slip, you cannot save it.

Yes you can.. Have you not ridden on ice? I have and i have slipped many times.  You just yank the wheel under yourself again. (Can't explain how.. Not thinking - it happen somehow.)

But yeah at crazy lean angle - you just go down for a roll and a nap.

Still boring to watch..  Now if someone gets injured, or there starts a EUC fire - now we are talking about first class entertainment.  I imagine most people deep down want them to slip..  

Edited Sunday at 09:16 PM by Funky

[Robse]

7 minutes ago, Funky said:

Now if someone gets injured, or there starts a EUC fire - now we are talking about first class entertainment.  I imagine most people deep down want them to slip..  

The untold truth of many a sport.  Guess watching Chooch videos has a bit of the same element of excitement.

 

[PourUC]

3 hours ago, Funky said:

Bottom part needs to be flat and smooth.. Take look at all off-road vehicles. They got smooth thick protective plate going whole bottom length. So it can slide over rocks and what not. Otherwise they would get caught by a rocks, fallen trees, or worse something getting damaged.

Same thing needs to be made for EUC battery cases and anything that is under/lower than pedals. Having screw heads popping out is just DUMB! Yes i will say it again - IT'S DUMB!!! Something that simple got overlooked.. 

People will sell and buy protective covers.

It's worth mentioning that I have crashed my Lynx more than average off-road doing jumps and stupid stuff and I have 2 marks on my battery protectors of my Lynx in those areas. Both at the edges where conveniently the Apex has bumpers. I feel like the design may not be perfect out the gate, but it does seem like they have actually looked at the REALITY of these wheels for the use cases they intended and implemented the bare minimum protection needed, most likely in an effort to minimise weight.

Those bumpers they have could easily have encompassed the bolts, it just seems like they decided not to. I personally looking at my own Lynx don't think this design is dumb. And if someone wants to protect the bottom metal more, then they can just print some TPU and velcro it on, or reuse the bumper mount.

Let's not pretend that the EUC accessory market doesn't exist. Grizzla, ClarkPads and Nylonove will all make something for this wheel if there is any demand.

[Asphalt]

14 hours ago, DavidB said:

You can forget about that. UL testing costs a bomb. I imagine it is the same for IP rating. 

Edit: From Electric Bike Report.

"For a company in a rush to bring an e-bike battery to market (see our guide to e-bike batteries for more information), UL certification represents a not insignificant cost. The laboratory that performs the tests required will charge somewhere between $15,000 and $20,000 and will need to be supplied with 52 battery packs – a substantial expense in its own right.

In addition to the financial cost associated with e-bike UL certification, the lab performing the tests will need 10-12 weeks to conduct the tests and issue a report on their results. "

So that is just for UL 2271 for the battery. UL 2849 is for the ebike. I imagine an EUC would require this or something similar which I suspect is even more costly than the UL 2271. 

To keep the certificate there are ongoing fees. 4 factory visits/year $3000 (each visit?) plus license fees for each item with sticker.

The high cost of UL certification would be a good reason for manufacturers to standardize battery packs across their line-up.
If there was a standard modular 1P pack for each voltage, then wheels could be designed to carry additional parallel packs as desired.

67V - 16S1P - 300Wh

84V - 20S1P - 375Wh

100V - 24S1P - 450Wh

126V - 30S1P - 563Wh

134V - 32S1P - 600Wh

151V - 36S1P - 675Wh

168V - 40S1P - 750Wh

200V - 48S1P - 900wh

Hopefully the diminishing returns of the voltage wars will plateau soon and the industry can standardize on a "normal voltage" (100V?) and a "performance voltage" (200V?)

This could be the start of hot-swap packs, allowing for lighter wheels and making it easier to travel abroad with wheels.

[onewheelkoregro]

33 minutes ago, Asphalt said:

The high cost of UL certification would be a good reason for manufacturers to standardize battery packs across their line-up.
If there was a standard modular 1P pack for each voltage, then wheels could be designed to carry additional parallel packs as desired.

67V - 16S1P - 300Wh

84V - 20S1P - 375Wh

100V - 24S1P - 450Wh

126V - 30S1P - 563Wh

134V - 32S1P - 600Wh

151V - 36S1P - 675Wh

168V - 40S1P - 750Wh

200V - 48S1P - 900wh

Hopefully the diminishing returns of the voltage wars will plateau soon and the industry can standardize on a "normal voltage" (100V?) and a "performance voltage" (200V?)

This could be the start of hot-swap packs, allowing for lighter wheels and making it easier to travel abroad with wheels.

Aren't EUC's generally run in 2p?