What is next for Leaperkim?

[xiiijojjo]

Leaperkim is already becoming known as the best EUC brand for a number of reasons. Taking that into consideration, what could they do to further improve to become perfect or close to it?

I really love how Gotway made the first official inverter for EUC using the hot charge ports, which they still seem to be the only company to use... This baffles me as the hot charging ports allow for so many ways of charging and discharging the EUC. Without hot charge ports many things like using the EUC as a solar power station to power 120-230VAC and 5-12VDC is impossible.

If no other company starts using hot charging ports or an internal inverter, I'll eventually have to buy a Gotway wheel some day for such a project.
If the Sherman L had hot ports it would be the last wheel I'd ever need. We've almost reached perfection in my opinion. All that is left is: 

1. Include hot charging ports
2. Break the 75mph barrier (legal top speed in most of the world)
2. Keep shedding weight with every release (relative to battery capacity and voltage)
3. Proper front and rear LED strips like on RS19 (let's make these things more visible and safer finally)
4. Proper Lynx style trolley handle that doesn't jiggle at all. (I don't like the Sherman L handle, as I always prefer to use the trolley to put my helmet through while dismounted, to have the EUC carry it while I can still use the trolley)
5. Let's start including seats for EUC past a certain weight/battery capacity.

side note: If they were the first to adopt some of these new high discharge cells coming out that would probably be huge too. 

And honestly any company that did any of these things would probably see increased sales and community respect, but currently every single company outside of Leaperkim is only inspiring exasperation or disbelief in my opinion. I have hope for Leaperkim that's why I'm making this post specifically about Leaperkim because the other companies have demonstrated for a long time that they don't care, at least Leaperkim seems to be making logical choices in design and release schedule.

Updating their Patton size of wheel is probably about time too? If they made something in that size range but a lot lighter than the competition then their lineup would be incredibly competitive.
I think the Lynx and Sherman L are unrivaled in their respective categories but as for the Patton I think it's becoming more underwhelming with every new release, and I don't think anyone is looking for Leaperkim to make something smaller than the Patton (except Funky) and very few are even interested in something Larger than the Sherman L so financially it's probably not the best move for a company like Leaperkim.

 

What do you think they Leaperkim need?

edit: I meant to post this in the Leaperkim category, something went wrong.

Edited September 6 by xiiijojjo

[WheelGoodTime]

45 minutes ago, xiiijojjo said:

1. Include hot charging ports

the voltage wars continue to rage on, and there are only a few places to go from here with the tech we have. right now we need to continue improving build quality and safety, because we are unlikely to see any performance improvements without a subsequent gain in weight. Eventually it becomes a war of attrition, because you need more power to move the extra weight you are tacking on.

New battery tech is always coming out with amazing energy density and insanely fast charging capability, but there isn't anything commercially available right now that can replace li-ion affordably. I suspect LK will continue their efforts to lower weight with more magnesium alloy while increasing performance through more voltage and stronger motors, and continue to increase their already excellent build quality.

That said, I think the Patton is the next on their list to be replaced. If they lower the weight by ~10 lbs via magnesium alloy, they will likely have an easy winner on their hands for a wheel of that size class.

[alcatraz]

1 hour ago, xiiijojjo said:

1. Include hot charging ports
2. Break the 75mph barrier (legal top speed in most of the world)
2. Keep shedding weight with every release (relative to battery capacity and voltage)
3. Proper front and rear LED strips like on RS19 (let's make these things more visible and safer finally)
4. Proper Lynx style trolley handle that doesn't jiggle at all. (I don't like the Sherman L handle, as I always prefer to use the trolley to put my helmet through while dismounted, to have the EUC carry it while I can still use the trolley)
5. Let's start including seats for EUC past a certain weight/battery capacity.

These criteria are relevant to a lot of riders but not to me. Just saying. 

The euc to me is not a motorcycle substitute but a minimal package to get around a busy dense city, with tight spaces, stairs, lots of trollying. 

[NOSFET Electric Dreams]

What cells are you referring to? 

[InfiniteWheelie]

I like big 22" wheels, I owned an Abrams and now a V13, so I want them to make one.

[Rawnei]

They need to improve their software, even out small odds and bits, it's pretty good but can be perfected.

Smaller lighter wheel would be cool to see as well, I'm thinking of something like a refresh of the Patton with magnesium alloy for weight reduction and more suspension travel.

[xiiijojjo]

16 hours ago, Electric Dreams said:

What cells are you referring to? 

Oh I don't remember the model name right now, I'm sure someone here does.

I learned about these new cells from some recent post(s) on this forum.

[ZIFF]

I'm really hoping for a 70-something pound Patton to come soon 🤞

[bpong]

im guessing they have a small share of the performance market... its about time they released an euc that is much smaller, lighter, suspended, BMS, and dare i say it, a smaller less powerful battery pack.  its designed primarily to act as a high quality connectivity euc rather than a high mileage high speed performance euc.  there are quite a few posters on this forum that want this kind of device but really none of the lower end modern eucs meet all those requirements or built-in limitations.  imagine how leaperkims market share would look like if they covered both ends of the spectrum... its specs would pale in comparison to their performance models but its design is not about performance - its about a smaller form factor, and its ability to travel on its own or carried easily in public transit or easily maneuvered by itself using a pop up trolley handle.  im sure if they built just a limited-run of those much smaller eucs,  they would sell out quickly.  this will provide their marketing dept. the necessary metrics to decide if this part of the euc market could also be profitable to them.  its not just about going fast or going very far...

[Funky]

45lbs/20kg wheel which can be carried around with one hand. Great top speed, no range.

Enough said.

[alcatraz]

Why not release a superlight non suspension fat tire 16in wheel?

By fat I mean wider than 3in. 

Also how about producing an euc specific tire? Haven't you guys found these tubeless ready tires (set up tubed or tubeless) to provide such a harsher ride than thinner sidewalled supple tires? I know heavier riders don't complain but I think lighter riders 75kg and below can understand what I mean.

I feel suspension is required simply to use 'unsuitable' motorcycle tires on eucs. For high speed sure you need a tire like that (and thus suspension). But make a wheel that's up to 50km/h (but with ample reserves, free spin 80-100km/h) and put a supple 16x4 or 18x4 tire on it.

And before someone mentions Ninebot Z10 etc, those tires were wide but they looked hard sidewalled just like tubeless ready tires.

Edited September 5 by alcatraz

[Skampster]

I just want Leaperkim to make their version of the falcon, but to their standards, not Begodes……………I’d bin my Falcon in a heartbeat if this happened. 

[Hellkitten]

5 minutes ago, Skampster said:

I just want Leaperkim to make their version of the falcon, but to their standards, not Begodes……………I’d bin my Falcon in a heartbeat if this happened. 

Agreed. That would be an instabuy for me. 

[InfiniteWheelie]

6 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Why not release a superlight non suspension fat tire 16in wheel?

By fat I mean wider than 3in. 

Also how about producing an euc specific tire? Haven't you guys found these tubeless ready tires (set up tubed or tubeless) to provide such a harsher ride than thinner sidewalled supple tires? I know heavier riders don't complain but I think lighter riders 75kg and below can understand what I mean.

I feel suspension is required simply to use 'unsuitable' motorcycle tires on eucs. For high speed sure you need a tire like that (and thus suspension). But make a wheel that's up to 50km/h (but with ample reserves, free spin 80-100km/h) and put a supple 16x4 or 18x4 tire on it.

And before someone mentions Ninebot Z10 etc, those tires were wide but they looked hard sidewalled just like tubeless ready tires.

That could be a cool idea.

[GothamMike]

On 9/1/2024 at 10:08 PM, xiiijojjo said:

Leaperkim is already becoming as the best EUC brand for a number of reasons. Taking that into consideration, what could they do to further improve to become perfect or close to it?

I really love how Gotway made the first official inverter for EUC using the hot charge ports, which they still seem to be the only company to use... This baffles me as the hot charging ports allow for so many ways of charging and discharging the EUC. Without hot charge ports many things like using the EUC as a solar power station to power 120-230VAC and 5-12VDC is impossible.

If no other company starts using hot charging ports or an internal inverter, I'll eventually have to buy a Gotway wheel some day for such a project.
If the Sherman L had hot ports it would be the last wheel I'd ever need. We've almost reached perfection in my opinion. All that is left is: 

1. Include hot charging ports
2. Break the 75mph barrier (legal top speed in most of the world)
2. Keep shedding weight with every release (relative to battery capacity and voltage)
3. Proper front and rear LED strips like on RS19 (let's make these things more visible and safer finally)
4. Proper Lynx style trolley handle that doesn't jiggle at all. (I don't like the Sherman L handle, as I always prefer to use the trolley to put my helmet through while dismounted, to have the EUC carry it while I can still use the trolley)
5. Let's start including seats for EUC past a certain weight/battery capacity.

side note: If they were the first to adopt some of these new high discharge cells coming out that would probably be huge too. 

And honestly any company that did any of these things would probably see increased sales and community respect, but currently every single company outside of Leaperkim is only inspiring exasperation or disbelief in my opinion. I have hope for Leaperkim that's why I'm making this post specifically about Leaperkim because the other companies have demonstrated for a long time that they don't care, at least Leaperkim seems to be making logical choices in design and release schedule.

Updating their Patton size of wheel is probably about time too? If they made something in that size range but a lot lighter than the competition then their lineup would be incredibly competitive.
I think the Lynx and Sherman L are unrivaled in their respective categories but as for the Patton I think it's becoming more underwhelming with every new release, and I don't think anyone is looking for Leaperkim to make something smaller than the Patton (except Funky) and very few are even interested in something Larger than the Sherman L so financially it's probably not the best move for a company like Leaperkim.

 

What do you think they Leaperkim need?

edit: I meant to post this in the Leaperkim category, something went wrong.

USB C port for data, updates, and charging devices. If BT chip were to fail.

rugged trolley handle for a large seat.

handles farther away from charging ports, an extra 2-3 cm. This allows ease of plugging in charging cables if you have something clamped on the handles.

best possible covers for charge ports.

 

[xiiijojjo]

I agree with the consensus taking place right now about Leaperkim's best move being making a Patton update or an even smaller wheel next.

But after that/those wheels what would be next? A Lynx update? I don't think they really have to within the next year or so, so maybe after a year they could release something to outcompete a potential Gotway competitor? Given the Lynx's current market dominance and versatility, it's unlikely that Leaperkim will need to update this model anytime soon, unless they aim to revolutionize the industry with a groundbreaking innovation.

In my opinion, there's no pressing need for high-speed wheels in the near future, and I'm content with maintaining our current voltage range (151-168V) for a few years.

Only when Leaperkim decides to upgrade the Lynx would they likely opt for higher voltage options (168V or above). If they were to release an updated Lynx at 151V, it would need to be significantly lighter to outcompete its predecessor.

I'm just entertaining the possibility of them making something even bigger after making 1-2 smaller wheels, rather than updating the Lynx right away.. Honestly we don't need 75mph wheels anytime soon, and I don't mind getting far better quality control, materials, firmware, hardware, battery cells before Leaperkim attempts going for that.

[techyiam]

38 minutes ago, xiiijojjo said:

I'm content with maintaining our current voltage range (151-168V) for a few years.

If the manufacturers can maintain consumption rate at 40-ish mph speeds at higher voltages, then I have no problem with 200+ V wheels.

 

[NOSFET Electric Dreams]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

If the manufacturers can maintain consumption rate at 40-ish mph speeds at higher voltages, then I have no problem with 200+ V wheels.

 

Increase in voltage means increase in weight, and which wheel cant obtain 40mph sustained? 

Are you okay with an increase in weight? 

[Rawnei]

53 minutes ago, Electric Dreams said:

Increase in voltage means increase in weight, and which wheel cant obtain 40mph sustained? 

Are you okay with an increase in weight? 

With high enough voltage we need less packs in parallel to deliver high current so that equation can shift at a certain point, I don't know what would be reasonable point where we would have enough current and capacity to use only 2 packs and retain good performance and range.

But then they need to consider electrical safety a lot more as well.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Electric Dreams said:

Increase in voltage means increase in weight, and which wheel cant obtain 40mph sustained? 

Are you okay with an increase in weight? 

No, I'm not OK with increase in weight for excess range that I don't need for my use case.

I was thinking more along the line of using high discharge, and high capacity cells with fewer parallel branches of cells.

 

For example, for a 2400 Wh wheel :

32 cells x 4.2 V = 134.4 V

32 cells x 3.7 V x 5 Ah x 4P = 2368 Wh.

 

Instead:

64 cells x 4.2 V = 268.8 V

64 cells x 3.7 V x 5 Ah x 2P = 2368 Wh.

 

[alcatraz]

If current is needed to provide torque and the board is able to produce more motor amps than get pulled from the battery, how about mounting that conversion board inside the motor, as close as possible. Then you can run thinner wires to it with high voltage. More voltage = more power. Less copper = less weight.

I'm not an electrical engineer. 

[WheelGoodTime]

11 hours ago, techyiam said:

No, I'm not OK with increase in weight for excess range that I don't need for my use case.

I was thinking more along the line of using high discharge, and high capacity cells with fewer parallel branches of cells.

 

For example, for a 2400 Wh wheel :

32 cells x 4.2 V = 134.4 V

32 cells x 3.7 V x 5 Ah x 4P = 2368 Wh.

 

Instead:

64 cells x 4.2 V = 268.8 V

64 cells x 3.7 V x 5 Ah x 2P = 2368 Wh.

 

That's exactly what is on the way with a couple EUC companies right now. Not with that exact voltage that I'm aware of, but you're on the right track. I do have real concerns about voltage sag if that's the case, but these companies are looking at making an ultra performance wheel with only a 2p battery configuration. Unless they chose something like a molicel p45b or something similar, it would be hard to safely discharge that much current from a 2p configuration. And even them, with p45b, it's not like it's a fix-all or anything - they're ultimately robbing Peter to pay Paul. An increase in voltage results in a decrease in current, and they have their own individual benefits of trading voltage for output current, ultimately you would be extracting the same amount of wattage from the wheel, and probably not achieving a massive net gain from all of it.

 

I want 200+ volt wheels because I think it would be awesome. But at what cost? I don't think the cost of (presumably) severe voltage sag is worth it to me. Maybe I'm misunderstanding and I'm wrong about it. What I do know is that we are getting ridiculously high voltage wheels next year whether we want it or not 🙂

Edited September 6 by WheelGoodTime

[techyiam]

44 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

That's exactly what is on the way with a couple EUC companies right now. Not without exact voltage that I'm aware of, but you're on the right track. I do have real concerns about voltage sag if that's the case, but these companies are looking at making an ultra performance wheel with only a 2p battery configuration. Unless they chose something like a molicel p45b or something similar, it would be hard to safely discharge that much current from a 2p configuration.

Thanks for the heads-up. 

Samsung 50E is rated at 9.8 A continuous max discharge. So 4P is about 40 A.

Whereas Samsung 50S is rated at 25 A. So 2P is 50 A.

[Rawnei]

6 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Thanks for the heads-up. 

Samsung 50E is rated at 9.8 A continuous max discharge. So 4P is about 40 A.

Whereas Samsung 50S is rated at 25 A. So 2P is 50 A.

You have to convert current to watt and when you up the voltage you get more watt as a result as well.

[o u euc 2]

I would buy a small Leaperkim tank style wheel.

I can see it now the Veteran M22 Locust, or a small tank like that.