2024 New EUCs - V13Pro, V12Pro, E20S, V18, E25, P6

[Tomallo]

I might not love how it looks personally (although it's growing on me I have to admit), but at least it's unique and I applaud Inmotion for trying something different, experimenting with new form factors is most welcome in my opinion

[Merkyu Kyu Kyu]

some people are saying that the E25 is the same weight as the Falcon but that's not true!  I will not tell the exact number but it's considerably lighter than Falcon.

[techyiam]

All I can say is that in the last three years or summer seasons, I am seeing an euc niche that doesn't seemed to be expanding, that is if the size is based on what the number of riders I encounter in the wild, and the number of for-sale ads. Interestingly enough, over the same time span, I saw a dramatic increase in e-scooters riders, from all walks of life. 

I, for one, would not discourage euc manufacturers from putting their efforts into increasing size of this niche.

Also, although I have no personal interests in wheels such as the mten series, E20, E25, Falcon, etc., I have met people who do.

At the same time, I have met people who don't have interest in the wheels that I like.

 

[UniVehje]

I think Inmotion is wise to put out new products in this price segment. I think this looks like a replacement for V10 series. This is not aimed for most of us forum users (except for Funky). This will compete with other 1000-1500 € wheels out there. I don't know the price but looks like that. If it's a light weight sub 25 kg, it's a great idea as it doesn't need insurance in Europe. 

About the looks. Yes, it's a bit funny. But objectively it's ok. We're just not used to it yet. People thought (me included) V14 was weird and ugly, but it's grown on me. We have only seen a render and it's not the style we've been used at with all the big wheels recently. But if you really look at it, this looks almost exactly like 16X, just with rounded corners. It might be a bit smaller, which is interesting. I think this style is better than the old egg shape. 

[Funky]

Idk why, but somehow i think it will cost well over 1500€.. Inmotion wheels always have been bit pricier.

If it has very small battery and that weak 54V system. Then yeah.. It should be way down from that 1500€.

 

I'm just hoping for 84V at least.. KS16S 72V was fine. Only negative about boxy shapes - they crack easier. Egg shape - they simply do a barrel roll in crash.

[UniVehje]

2 minutes ago, Funky said:

and that weak 54V system.

Where does this rumour come from? I have not seen any credible source for it people keep mentioning it. Why would they develop a new voltage for this? Even V8 has always been 84V. 

[Funky]

1 minute ago, UniVehje said:

Where does this rumour come from? I have not seen any credible source for it people keep mentioning it. Why would they develop a new voltage for this? Even V8 has always been 84V. 

E20? I heard it has 54V?

I would love if it had 100V same as Falcon - now that would be a rocket.  

Edited September 2 by Funky

[UniVehje]

1 minute ago, Funky said:

E20? I heard it has 54V?

Right. But that's a 400 dollar toy with 240 Wh battery. E25 seems like a serious wheel, just at the lighter end of the market. 

[Funky]

11 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Right. But that's a 400 dollar toy with 240 Wh battery. E25 seems like a serious wheel, just at the lighter end of the market. 

So it will be 800 dollar big toy with 480Wh battery.

Or a 1600 dollar vehicle with 960Wh. 

What's stooping them from using 54V? Ofc i would love to see 100V personally. But i also think it will be 84V.

Edited September 2 by Funky

[Asphalt]

34 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Right. But that's a 400 dollar toy with 240 Wh battery. E25 seems like a serious wheel, just at the lighter end of the market. 

The question to ask is why did InMotion create an E-series?

The E20 is a low-cost wheel for those that don’t need high speed performance. Some may see the two-wheel design as something for beginners or a toy, but there’s nothing stopping someone from using it as an affordable alternative to walking - like the Ninebot S or hoverboards.

So the E25 is launched instead of the V25. Should V-series performance be expected?
From the photo, it’s clear that the E25 is not a two-wheeled design, so the E-series isn’t exclusive to dicycles. 
so what separates the E-series from the V-series?

My guess is that E is for Economical. The easiest way to drop price is by reducing the number and quality of battery cells used. A 13s1p pack (13 cells) is a lot less expensive than the Falcon’s 24s2p (48 cells). Not to mention significantly lighter.

54.6 volts for the E25 is speculation, based on the voltage of the E20. It would be a cost savings for InMotion if they standardized the controllers across the E-series lineup.

I would not be surprised if the E25 is a single-wheeled E20 with suspension. Is suspension really needed at this performance level? Probably not, but the market has shown the people will pay more for bouncy.

The other possible meaning of E is for the European market, which is leading the way for restrictions on speed and UL certification requirements.

 

The design and naming suggest that we shouldn’t expect the E25 to compete with the Falcon, so it’s probably best to temper expectations.

[DavidB]

On 9/1/2024 at 11:49 AM, slippyfeet said:

Yup, its is my kind of jam - if they can pull this off, big props to them for going against the moto-x look . Even those little details like the screen angled to the trajectory of a rider's head are things I like.
Just needs a flat friction pad on the calves, and a spacer to keep the spikes off the body when collapsed. * chef's kiss *  

Rolls nz will be happy. They should be able to make a nice neoprene cover which will give grip, protect shell and maybe improve the aesthetics.

[Funky]

I don't want savings.. I want performance at light weight. Not another under performing wheel. Wheel size already is a downgrade from V10. Not an upgrade.. Something tells me that E25 will be another joke. V8 upgrade more likely, not a V10...

If E25 has 1000Wh and goes around 60kph speed. Are very well built - it can cost 2500$. I don't care how much wheel cost. I want good product, not a bad product.

 

Same time if it goes slower than 30kph. It can cost only 100$ and i would not care. (My sweet spot is 40kph speed. Anything more goes into safety margin.)

E-smaller wheels?

V-bigger wheels?

They gonna save V25 name for their 25" 5600Wh super pepperoni speedstar wheel. That gonna get released in 2035. (Tire will be smaller, but marketing gonna make it 25")

Edited September 2 by Funky

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, Asphalt said:

The question to ask is why did InMotion create an E-series?

The E20 is a low-cost wheel for those that don’t need high speed performance. Some may see the two-wheel design as something for beginners or a toy, but there’s nothing stopping someone from using it as an affordable alternative to walking - like the Ninebot S or hoverboards.

So the E25 is launched instead of the V25. Should V-series performance be expected?
From the photo, it’s clear that the E25 is not a two-wheeled design, so the E-series isn’t exclusive to dicycles. 
so what separates the E-series from the V-series?

My guess is that E is for Economical. The easiest way to drop price is by reducing the number and quality of battery cells used. A 13s1p pack (13 cells) is a lot less expensive than the Falcon’s 24s2p (48 cells). Not to mention significantly lighter.

54.6 volts for the E25 is speculation, based on the voltage of the E20. It would be a cost savings for InMotion if they standardized the controllers across the E-series lineup.

I would not be surprised if the E25 is a single-wheeled E20 with suspension. Is suspension really needed at this performance level? Probably not, but the market has shown the people will pay more for bouncy.

The other possible meaning of E is for the European market, which is leading the way for restrictions on speed and UL certification requirements.

 

The design and naming suggest that we shouldn’t expect the E25 to compete with the Falcon, so it’s probably best to temper expectations.

Inmotion's naming has always been all over the place. I really don't think we should focus on that at all. The numbers have never meant anything and the V was probably just "version." But it is interesting that now suddenly there's a new letter and the old V is still a thing in future products. But I don't think it's either Europe or Economy. It's probably nothing. Also the number might not mean anything. Just as you cannot read any meaning from V14 and V13. E25 doesn't have to be a version of E20. 

Z10 was a 57V (I think) wheel that was capable of +50 km/h speeds. You don't always need high voltage. I agree it would seem it saves money to use the same voltage in the lineup. But that's also argument for using 84V as they already have that. Plus I don't think E20 has the same smart BMS features etc. so I don't think they can use the same controller on this. If this E25 has a bigger battery (1000Wh), then it doesn't seem to make sense to make it lower than 84V for practical reasons. If that's a 12" rim wheel, it has same space for battery as 16X (1554Wh). But that could be a smaller rim also, difficult to determine from the render. 

If there's a difference in the letters, E-series might be their low end, consumer, commuting, light, budget lineup and V-series for us enthusiasts, high-end, performance, racing and off-road lineup. But who knows. We will see soon. 

There's definitely no suspension on this. The mechanism would have to be completely inside the case. They hint at being good to keep in car. I think this might be closer to V8 or that IPS i5. 

Edited September 2 by UniVehje

[Funky]

11 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

There's definitely no suspension on this. The mechanism would have to be completely inside the case. They hint at being good to keep in car. I think this might be closer to V8 or that IPS i5. 

But, but the post said it has the S-Suspension sir.

I also think this is closer to V8, not V10.. At least size wise. Maybe it goes 50kph speeds.  Tire is inside the case - so wheel is kinda smallish. It may be even 10"... Which i hope isn't.  Would be great, if it had 16x2,5" tire at least. And space for 3" wide ones also.

Edited September 2 by Funky

[Ronin]

5 hours ago, techyiam said:

All I can say is that in the last three years or summer seasons, I am seeing an euc niche that doesn't seemed to be expanding, that is if the size is based on what the number of riders I encounter in the wild, and the number of for-sale ads. Interestingly enough, over the same time span, I saw a dramatic increase in e-scooters riders, from all walks of life. 

I, for one, would not discourage euc manufacturers from putting their efforts into increasing size of this niche.

Also, although I have no personal interests in wheels such as the mten series, E20, E25, Falcon, etc., I have met people who do.

At the same time, I have met people who don't have interest in the wheels that I like.

 

What is blocking the euc market to grow is the price of new wheels. The entry point is a bit out of control. Imo of course. 

The ugly design of the E25 is not going to help with user adoption, especially with younger riders. For young people, you want something cool, which is not happening with the E20 and certainly not with a mud color suit case design. But to each on their own, im sure some people, old, will not mind this. E25 is supposed to compete vs the Falcon...

Edited September 2 by Ronin

[Rawnei]

4 minutes ago, Ronin said:

What is blocking the euc market to grow is the price of new wheels. The entry point is a bit out of control. Imo of course. 

Yeah when people not riding asks how much it costs they react to the price, at the same time difficult to recommend getting a small "entry" level wheel knowing most people outgrow that pretty fast.

Used wheels probably the best alternative for new riders these days.

[kintips]

1 hour ago, Ronin said:

What is blocking the euc market to grow is the price of new wheels. The entry point is a bit out of control. Imo of course. 

The ugly design of the E25 is not going to help with user adoption, especially with younger riders. For young people, you want something cool, which is not happening with the E20 and certainly not with a mud color suit case design. But to each on their own, im sure some people, old, will not mind this. E25 is supposed to compete vs the Falcon...

Well remember Begode has a MAP pricing where every company has to follow the same pricing. Do you know if other companies like inmotion leaperkim etc... have that same pricing structure. Because if you're caught giving a lower price they will increase your cost of buying the units

[Funky]

I do wonder how old/weak wheels sold.. 10 or so years ago.. They where plain looking white/black eggs. Nothing cool aside of having one wheel.

Somehow people bought them.. Also how many "young" people will have 2-4k$ laying around to spend on unneeded wheel. Most people who are money tight won't even look at euc. Even more just for a "hobby".

Wheels like RS19 - where it all was.. Fast enough. Powerful enough. And price wasn't that crazy. < We need wheels like that more. Not being completely "beginner" wheel, but being enough to enjoy it for longer time. Not wanting something new after 1 month.

 

I won't lie - i like how Falcon looks with it's 4 lights bar at front and that sexy big tire.. Also little plash of the orange gives it some personality. Also the way it looks is just amazing. BUT looking deeper under "pretty design" it has nothing much going for it. Lift button same placement where the power button is - somewhere inside wheel well. No handy carry handle. It is meant for riding only, nothing more. Trolley handle alone was a afterthought. Even now thinking more - it's carry "handles" where made with trolley handle - making them both afterthoughts. 

Yes this trash bin won't win any beauty pageants. But looking deeper it may be much better wheel.. (We don't know what it offers yet.) 

You can buy wheel going by looks - which at the end of a day may suck and break often and after some years are simply right-out nightmare to work with.

Or you can buy a trash bin - which will work like intended and have no ugly surprises along the way. Like breaking..

 

I'll take a trash bin that is very reliable. Instead of a sexy beast that breaks down after 1 year. Function over looks have always been my motto. If they both have somewhat same stats Falcon & E25. Centered carry handle alone makes this one 100% better. That alone would nudge me to E25 side.

FYI: I'm not that old. And in mind i'm still a child.  If E25 was simple box, without color scheme and those "grills" - now that would be right-out ugly. Where Falcon is cool looking. E25 has style.

Most people simply have gotten used to those edgy wheels. Seeing round edges and plastic makes them sick.  

Don't get me wrong - if E25 will under perform - You will hear different thoughts.   

Edited September 2 by Funky

[kintips]

Just now, Funky said:

 won't lie - i like how Falcon looks with it's 4 lights bar at front and that sexy big tire.. Also little plash of the orange gives it some personality. Also the way it looks is just amazing. BUT looking deeper under "pretty design" it has nothing much going for it. Lift button same placement where the power button is - somewhere inside wheel well. No handy carry handle. It is meant for riding only, nothing more. Trolley handle alone was a afterthought. Even now thinking more - it's carry "handles" where made with trolley handle - making them both afterthought. 

 

Remember everyone hated the orange color (i personally don't care, the s16pro looks awesome with that color), i can see why inmotion decided to stop the orange. But now its all grey. I want them to make one TRANSPARENT!!

[Funky]

4 minutes ago, kintips said:

Remember everyone hated the orange color (i personally don't care, the s16pro looks awesome with that color), i can see why inmotion decided to stop the orange. But now its all grey. I want them to make one TRANSPARENT!!

 Transparent - one pro you can see all the stuck stones in wheel well.  

Doesn't transparent plastic get whitish, gray over years? 

Anyways - anyone can take E25 shell and color it any colors they want.. Nothing stooping them.

I personally liked how KS16X carbon fiber case looked.

Edited September 2 by Funky

[kintips]

Just now, Funky said:

 Transparent - one pro you can see all the stuck stones in wheel well.  

Doesn't transparent plastic get whitish, gray over years? 

Anyways anyone can take E25 shell and color it any colors they want.. Nothing stooping them.

I personally liked how 16X carbon fiber case looked.

Yes, then you don't need to take it apart all the time then you can see what's wrong with it lol just by looking through the plastic. They can just use transparent polycarbonate then it will be impact resistant too!

[mhpr262]

On 8/31/2024 at 10:51 PM, Jayzao said:

I am waiting on the F22.

if I remember the specs correctly that thing has a 2.700Wh battery but weighs exactly as much as a Sherman L with a 4.000Wh battery.  The F22 is already dead in the water

[Funky]

53 minutes ago, mhpr262 said:

if I remember the specs correctly that thing has a 2.700Wh battery but weighs exactly as much as a Sherman L with a 4.000Wh battery.  The F22 is already dead in the water

Doh maybe F22 with it's 2700Wh battery has 2x longer range? Maybe even 3x? Who knows, maybe they made some-kind discovery leap..?

Maybe it has 2x fork suspension just for that - One pair for suspension - Other pair for regenerative charging?

You know how there is that thing that makes electricity true ocean waves? Why can't same thing be used in EUC? Suspension is going up/down all the time.  

O.M.G - Did i just design self charging wheel? Sure charge will be small, but it gives user extra range.

Edited September 2 by Funky

[mhpr262]

32 minutes ago, Funky said:

Other pair for regenerative charging?

You know how there is that thing that makes electricity true ocean waves? Why can't same thing be used in EUC? Suspension is going up/down all the time

I actually remember reading about such shock absorbers in one of my father's car magazines many years ago (at least 20). IIRC they were being developed and tested for some military truck. There was a tiny turbine inside the shock coupled to a generator, and when the shock compressed the oil was forced through the turbine and it spun the generator. I have never heard or reead about that again - it was most likely too expensive for too little gain.

Edited September 2 by mhpr262

[Funky]

7 minutes ago, mhpr262 said:

I actually remember reading about such shock absorbers in one of my father's car magazines many years ago (at least 20). IIRC they were being developed and tested for some military truck. There was a tiny turbine inside the shock coupled to a generator, and when the shock compressed the oil was forced through the turbine and it spun the generator. I have never heard or reead about that again - it was most likely too expensive for too little gain.

See now - that may have been expensive then. 

Now it probably can be made for 5$ and sold for 500$ surely.  Same as EUC made for 100$ and sold for 2000$  

Edited September 2 by Funky