a very busy year for new eucs, 2023; optimism and pessimism, perhaps the waiting was worth it...

[bpong]

this topic is mainly for those riders who are coming from a low-tech wheel (in my case, a 5yr old Tesla V2) and considering adding a more modern and suspended ride to their collection.  its about adding another ride that actually fills a void in their euc collection.

for me at the beginning of 2023, it was to be the Patton.  then theres the Extreme,  the V14,  2 new models from kingsong,  theres probably other eucs that i cant remember (please feel free to mention them too,...) like last years T4, etc,...

then, here comes the Lynx a few weeks ago.  geeeeezzzzzz....

just when i was getting ready to buy something,  this latest model from veteran is presented to the riding community.  not designed for a particular riding environment, it looks like something great for a commuter ride with the ability to go abit faster if needed.  could this be the final model that i would consider purchasing now ?

i will wait for more reviews to come out for the other remaining models,  but the Lynx looks good and it has some genuine attributes that does make it appealing (proven suspension, higher voltage, higher speed) and they managed to keep the weight below 100lbs.  what i dont really know is the question about quality control.  there are contributors to this blog that swear by veterans QC,  but the recent teardowns and experiences with the Patton in some reviews left me wondering if QC is questionable with veterans latest model offerings as well.

i will probably find out this coming spring...(snicker...) or wait for the batch 2 offering.  either way,  i cant see any thing wrong about going with the Lynx for the time being...but i have to admit,  waiting this riding season was worth the wait and i may have saved myself from alot of grief waiting for replacement parts...

 

[techyiam]

From my limited experience, since I have only bought a few wheels, unlike some of you who probably have a garage full, it is hard to go wrong buying a later batch wheel. In addition to fewer issues with the electronics, suspension, battery, BMS, and what have you, the firmware usually gets refined significantly. Sometimes even the app. Since I bought the Abrams and S22 at a much later date after release, I could really tell the difference after I have updated the wheel to the latest firmware. Moreover, should there be some issues still lingering, there will be plenty of resources online. When I bought my S22, the roller sliders and other customization options were all known and tested. That was an additional positive aspect.

From reading your earlier posts, I believe you are using the wheel primarily for commuting in Toronto. And I don't think you are into the 70+ km/h speed stuff. Plus you are still riding a T2. It looks like to me the Patton may be a good bet. I would say the Patton is a big step for someone coming from a T2. But you will be the judge since you can easily test ride the Patton if you haven't already.

If you want to venture into the 70+ km/h territory from time to time, or there is something specific about the Lynx that you like a lot, me thinks there is a good chance you will like the Patton more.

The only way you will know is to ride the Patton and the Lynx back to back. The Lynx is a slightly more refined, more premium wheel than the Patton. But the Patton is more responsive and cheaper. And the Patton is not a slow wheel for city riding.

If I were to choose the Lynx over the Patton, it would be because mainly I want a 20" wheel, slight more battery capacity, and would like to get into the 70+ km/h sustained territory.

 

Over the next couple of years, most likely there will be better wheels coming down the pike. With wheels as good as the Patton and the Lynx, if I was someone riding a beginner wheel or a second wheel, I probably would be content with one of these. Unless there is a big surprise appearing unexpectedly, then I may have to reconsider.

 

Aside:

1 hour ago, bpong said:

i cant see any thing wrong about going with the Lynx for the time being...

This may be nothing. But from Dawn's comments, the Lynx may not be as stable as the Master or the EX30 at higher speeds. But it's early yet.

[bpong]

yeah, i saw that review....even the video at that speed looks daunting....i wonder what the hospital bill would be for a spill at that speed...you are correct about mentioning the Patton too.  but i would appreciate a slightly larger wheel diameter for my commuting...on my small tesla i get wobbles every now and then and i dont like it...period...

[techyiam]

30 minutes ago, bpong said:

but i would appreciate a slightly larger wheel diameter for my commuting...on my small tesla i get wobbles every now and then and i dont like it...period...

Understandable.

I am also willing to forgo some agility and response for that more planted feel.

However, you are comparing a T2 to a Patton. I will say the Patton is many many folds more stable and planted than my T3. I am not sure how far is the T2 from the T3 since I have never ridden a T2. But my guess is that it can't be that far.

I am comparing the Lynx to the S22, and Abrams.

I don't think you can go wrong with either the Patton or Lynx. If you get the Lynx, you will have less excuses to grade soon. But if you are an euc addict, that won't matter.  

Edited December 5, 2023 by techyiam

[alcatraz]

How about making a list of priorities. If you haven't owned a suspension wheel (I haven't) I imagine that the list will change after you get your first such wheel. Or for any large enough generational leap.

Meaning, you'll think there's a better choice out there rather quickly.

My position is that instead of shelling out big and betting that it's the last wheel you'll need for the next 5 years, why not just pick up the previous gen and learn from all the testing and tweaking that's already been done? Get a feel for the new technology and then get the next "last gen" wheel. At least then you'll have massive community support, lots of parts circulating, knowhow, and maybe custom designs and solutions to problems. And maybe most important of all, a track record. How many failed boards etc, unexpected cutouts. A new machine having zero cutouts is in my book not as reliable a bet as an older with a few incidents.

All while saving a lot of $$$.

Basically it boils down to, with new wheels we don't know what the long term ownership experience is going to be. I'd hate to be the guinea pig. With all the different versions v1 v2 v3 v4 that are out there, obviously no wheel is truly ever finished.

[bpong]

7 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

How about making a list of priorities. If you haven't owned a suspension wheel (I haven't) I imagine that the list will change after you get your first such wheel. Or for any large enough generational leap.

...

Basically it boils down to, with new wheels we don't know what the long term ownership experience is going to be. I'd hate to be the guinea pig. With all the different versions v1 v2 v3 v4 that are out there, obviously no wheel is truly ever finished.

i agree with your last statement.  one thing i forgot to mention is that im 65 now, and nearing 66 in a few months.  my time for riding is limited and i cant see myself still riding when im in my 70's.  sure there are some older riders out there, but really,  once you are in your 70's,  i think the priority at that point is to try to do things that dont hurt yourself.  dont get me wrong,  i will try to ride as long as i can;  but at the same time i have to put things in perspective.  im still in good enough shape to ride something abit spicier than my tesla,  and i would like to do that sooner rather than later... if you get my drift.  so,  taking that into consideration, and the fact that this will be my first suspended wheel,  im pretty sure i will not get bored of it and want something 'better'.  hell,  i test rode an RS19 this past summer too,  and i did like that euc even if its non suspended.

to take a more realistic leap, in my position, i have also considered the revised V11.  its abit faster than my tesla but it is also suspended and its been around for quite awhile.  i had test ridden the orig V11 this past summer and i did like it.  abit squishy for my tastes but i think that was how it was set up by the store.  and of course price wise,  its quite affordable with leftover dollars to pick up some updated knee and elbow protection.  the only thing i did not like about the V11 is the difficulty in mounting pads on it.

im still in good enuf shape to ride something that is peppy,  so thats why the higher performance models interest me.  worse comes to worse,  if for some reason i cannot continue to ride,  im pretty sure i will be able to put it out for sale.

thank you for your timely advice too !!!  much appreciated...

[Hellkitten]

2 hours ago, bpong said:

to take a more realistic leap, in my position, i have also considered the revised V11.  its abit faster than my tesla but it is also suspended and its been around for quite awhile.  i had test ridden the orig V11 this past summer and i did like it.  abit squishy for my tastes but i think that was how it was set up by the store.  and of course price wise,  its quite affordable with leftover dollars to pick up some updated knee and elbow protection.  the only thing i did not like about the V11 is the difficulty in mounting pads on it.

I have an original V11 and made farrings so I could add pads. There are 3D party parts out there as well. The suspension isn’t as refined as the newer generation of wheels. Although hopefully the V11f has something a little closer. You can customize the suspension on it and I bet if you added more air it would be closer to what you want. It’s a decent all rounder, casual cruiser, it’s the wheel the pushed me into this hobby. It would likely fit your criteria from the sounds of it. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Hellkitten

[OldFartRides]

I’m turning 64 this coming week. When I bought my first wheel, safety, (or lack there of) and feeling out of my depth being able to work on an electronic device were my two big concerns.  Now in hindsight, I’m so glad I took the chance. Going forward, I’m planning on riding slower, not faster. Slow enough to hear the birds and smell the roses. I’ll probably get a new one when I can’t gets parts to keep these going.

Best,

[bpong]

1 hour ago, Hellkitten said:

I have an original V11 and made farrings so I could add pads. ...

im aware that one can add pads to the V11, either model.  but you got to do stuff to make it happen.  im done doing stuff...ive been doing stuff to alot of my hobbies to get it to the way i like it.  i for once would like to get something that doesn't need much from my part other than normal maintenance and the odd tear down or tire swap/replace.  enough with doing stuff...

[bpong]

2 minutes ago, OldFartRides said:

I’m turning 64 this coming week. When I bought my first wheel, safety, (or lack there of) and feeling out of my depth being able to work on an electronic device were my two big concerns.  Now in hindsight, I’m so glad I took the chance. Going forward, I’m planning on riding slower, not faster. Slow enough to hear the birds and smell the roses. I’ll probably get a new one when I can’t gets parts to keep these going.

Best,

first of all,  congrats to you !!!  you must get a chuckle at remembering all the stuff you have done over the past few decades (and stuff you should not have done...).  yes, im a cautious rider and ya cant go too fast on a tesla 2.  but 40-50kph is getting very long in the tooth and there are certain streets in the downtown area plus the burbs where one can ride abit faster and safely too.  it would be nice to always have the ability to go-go as opposed to just going.  the most memorable rides i have had, though,  were way below 50kph, and that was thru provincial park roads within the park itself...

[bpong]

1 hour ago, Hellkitten said:

it’s the wheel the pushed me into this hobby...

i started with the glide3 and i chuckled a few weeks ago in downtown toronto,  i saw this really tall guy riding a V8.  and he was just having fun and going out of his mind listening to music as he glided past me (i was walking that day...).  to me nothing can compare to the first euc that i learned how to ride.  sure,  its not that fast and its non-suspended but it was the wheel i first experienced riding without holding on to any thing.  it was the damn-dest feeling that afternoon and it will not be repeated ever again.  whatever new euc i get thats suspended it will feel great.  but it wont duplicate that first ride...

[techyiam]

23 minutes ago, bpong said:

i for once would like to get something that doesn't need much from my part other than normal maintenance and the odd tear down or tire swap/replace.  enough with doing stuff...

Depending on your risk tolerance, by spring, the Patton would be a late batch wheel, but for the Lynx, it would still be a semi-early-batch wheel

More likely the Patton will be trouble-free compared to the Lynx, unless you get really lucky.

Just curious, have you ridden the Patton?

[bpong]

42 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Just curious, have you ridden the Patton?

Nope, not yet.  Seen it, kinda like kicking tires on a car, didnt test ride it.  At the time, i was tired at looking and test riding, i simply had enuf.  Come spring again i will test ride both, ...  that will be interesting...

[bpong]

I'll be damned if i like both wheels... that will be the worst outcome...

[alcatraz]

3 hours ago, bpong said:

i agree with your last statement.  one thing i forgot to mention is that im 65 now, and nearing 66 in a few months.  my time for riding is limited and i cant see myself still riding when im in my 70's.  sure there are some older riders out there, but really,  once you are in your 70's,  i think the priority at that point is to try to do things that dont hurt yourself.  dont get me wrong,  i will try to ride as long as i can;  but at the same time i have to put things in perspective.  im still in good enough shape to ride something abit spicier than my tesla,  and i would like to do that sooner rather than later... if you get my drift.  so,  taking that into consideration, and the fact that this will be my first suspended wheel,  im pretty sure i will not get bored of it and want something 'better'.  hell,  i test rode an RS19 this past summer too,  and i did like that euc even if its non suspended.

to take a more realistic leap, in my position, i have also considered the revised V11.  its abit faster than my tesla but it is also suspended and its been around for quite awhile.  i had test ridden the orig V11 this past summer and i did like it.  abit squishy for my tastes but i think that was how it was set up by the store.  and of course price wise,  its quite affordable with leftover dollars to pick up some updated knee and elbow protection.  the only thing i did not like about the V11 is the difficulty in mounting pads on it.

im still in good enuf shape to ride something that is peppy,  so thats why the higher performance models interest me.  worse comes to worse,  if for some reason i cannot continue to ride,  im pretty sure i will be able to put it out for sale.

thank you for your timely advice too !!!  much appreciated...

There's nothing wrong with getting a peppy wheel. In fact it's very wise. Power is safety. I don't ever want to ride anywhere close to 80km/h but I would love to own a wheel that could do that. 

Pick a wheel with the best track record. Be it veteran or whatever. Don't get the first gen of any wheel. 

[techyiam]

1 minute ago, bpong said:

Nope, not yet.  Seen it, kinda like kicking tires on a car, didnt test ride it.  At the time, i was tired at looking and test riding, i simply had enuf.  Come spring again i will test ride both, ...  that will be interesting...

Hmmm. Interesting indeed.

I look forward to hearing your opinion on the two wheels.

You are a considerable experienced rider, but on a T2.

I bet you will be pleasantly surprised.

Just for laughs and giggles, try out the S19. You may enjoy riding that too. But for what you want, ie. minimum hassle of ownership, the Leaper Kim wheels may be the best bets.

1 minute ago, bpong said:

I'll be damned if i like both wheels... that will be the worst outcome...

Ah, this a likely outcome. But because you are coming from a T2, you may initially like the Patton more. But with time, it is hard to say which one you would prefer and bring back home.

Gabe at Eevess is also torn between the two.

I am also not certain which way to go, although TBH, the 20" wheel and more battery do sound more appealing. But unless the 20" translate to more stability, the Patton is still a strong contender.

Also, the V13 may also be a wild card on my short list, just because of the planted feel at speed. But this is a big compromise. I have to give up something significant.

Between the Patton and Lynx, it is not an easy decision since the Patton is already a very good wheel for commuting. If you ride on your own and not in a group, then it may not be that easy to justify paying more for the Lynx unless there is something about the Lynx that you really like. 

I will wait for comments from actual owners to help narrow things down. The price is a factor for me. I am also not in a rush to upgrade since I have enough wheels to ride.

 

[Poker]

Lots of great advice in this thread, I don't know what kind of health your in but quite a few of the 60+ year olds I know have knee problems.

I've only ridden the Sherman S and the V11 + tested a few un-suspended wheels but from what I can see the consensus seem to be that leapor kim has the most plush suspension on the market.

I would feel safe placing an order for the Lynx if I didn't own an SS already. Early this year they sent out replacement / upgraded parts for free to everyone that bought the early batches of the Sherman S. I think thats pretty confidence inspiring.

Just replace the tire when you get it with a proper MC tire and while you have it disassembled, apply Loctite the right places (Not on plastic) and torque it to spec that way you don't need to be concerned with most QC issues 

[novazeus]

10 hours ago, techyiam said:

Also, the V13 may also be a wild card on my short list, just because of the planted feel at speed

i'm super excited the lynx is evidently selling well because jason's website says batch one is sold out. that means maybe we'll start seeing tire change videos and actual production units in the wild by consumers. 

i have no idea what the leaperkim suspension feels like, but after disassembling and upgrading my s22 to "pro" status, but better with the michelin tire on it, but omg, again, i can't imagine a wheel having a better suspension. it rivals my best v13. and working on the s22 is so easy. kinda want to buy another one. but gonna stress this hh4000 motor a bit more on my little hill. 

but traveling over washboard surfaces like my pastures, there's no substitution for the larger diameter wheel. same probably could be said of smaller diameter wheels capabilities if u like traveling up bridge embankments alot.

from what i can gather from youtube, the lynx is very powerful and that is always handy, but if ur terrain doesn't warrant it, why ride it. like buying a jeep or corvette, which i've done both, unwarranteed but i did it anyway, although the jeep is/was somewhat practical for the ranch. 

it will be interesting to track where the lynxs are being sold. it looks like a perfect mountainous trail wheel or city wheel, esp in hilly areas. let's face it, if ur light enough, a 9bs1 works on pavement, and still 4 times faster than walking. 

i'm 6' tall and the v13 just fits me perfectly. the v13 does take a massive amount of leg strength to operate comfortably, which really comes into play making turns in the pasture, nbd on pavement. 

the s22, as much as i'm loving it now, hits my leg at the top of it's battery case, and although i think i'm building some kind of callous on my leg, and i hate bumpers, i'm gonna try some automotive door seal up there. i like skinny wheels that don't touch my legs, but i haven't figured out how to hop on without having my left leg holding the wheel. 

don't dismiss the v13. i picked up these last two from inmotion direct on a special sale for $3419 each and they were made in may 2023 and are perfect right out of the box. except they shipped the kickstand separately and my personal preference for my terrain is the michelin pilot street 2 run at max pressure. happy to see my first v13, the one with a tube and 18oz of slime, has finally stopped leaking. i put it at 47psi and a few days later it was 46psi, that's within the margin of error. but i want to see what a v13 feels like with the michelin and no tube and slime. right now it wants to stay vertical in the curve. handling will much improve.