KS-16X vibrating like crazy and blew fuse

[TimmyFPV]

Hello, I have started gotten some problems with my Kingsong 16x. 

It all started when I was out riding and was riding in a sandbox. The wheel span like normal when you go through a sandbox but then it beeped two times before shutting off and I could not start it again. I had noticed under the ride that it didn't have the power it usually has at 70% battery (the wheel warned for speed already at 38km/h).

I opened the wheel up when I came home and noticed that the cables to one of the batteries had burned off in the connector and a fuse had blown. I checked the batteries and noticed that I probably had rode on just one battery because one of the batteries was on 82v meanwhile the other battery was on just 74v. And checking through the logs I haven't had over 76volts in a long time.  

... now the fun part (or not). I tried to switch out the fuses and plug in a different battery into the wheel and start it up again. But then it just vibrated like crazy before burning the fuse again. Aaaand then I tried again and then I could have it on balancing for about 10 seconds before it vibrated again burning a fuse.

This is a video of the issue I have right now! Sorry for the shaky video btw, don't know how that happened lol.

I am thinking if the mainboard is the cause making it all go crazy or maybe the motor. Just want to eliminate one of them so I could buy spare parts. Or maybe if there is something else I should try.

[TimmyFPV]

I made sure to screw the mainboard tightly on before trying each time, It rattled loose every time it vibrated like crazy tho. 

[mrelwood]

If the mainboard gets to rattle itself loose, I do wonder if there’s something wrong with it’s fixing mechanism. Like a cracked thread or post under the board where the mainboard screws go into etc.

A few things you need to check though:

- The axle bolts. I don’t recall which attachment system the 16X has, but either way, the bolts that fix the pedal hangers to the motor or axle. They need to be very tight.

- The shell bolts that fix the shell to the pedal hangers. They need to be well snug. Don’t crack the plastic though! Because:

- A cracked shell at or near the mentioned shell attachment bolts can also allow enough movement to make the gyro oscillate like that.

[TimmyFPV]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

If the mainboard gets to rattle itself loose, I do wonder if there’s something wrong with it’s fixing mechanism. Like a cracked thread or post under the board where the mainboard screws go into etc.

A few things you need to check though:

- The axle bolts. I don’t recall which attachment system the 16X has, but either way, the bolts that fix the pedal hangers to the motor or axle. They need to be very tight.

- The shell bolts that fix the shell to the pedal hangers. They need to be well snug. Don’t crack the plastic though! Because:

- A cracked shell at or near the mentioned shell attachment bolts can also allow enough movement to make the gyro oscillate like that.

I have inspected the wheel and I can't find any cracks. The motor is so tightly screwed on that I can't even turn the screws at all. 

There is two out of four screws on the mainboard metal plate that has been stripped but I made sure before trying that I could not move the board at all. Maybe that wasn't enough, I don't know. 🤷‍♂️. 

Could the motor be at fault or can I remove that from the problem list? I got the wheel working for about 10 second when I tried it for the second time but I don't know what was making it go crazy, maybe in some position of the motor? I am pretty new to this game 🙃.

[mrelwood]

If the main board screw threads are stripped, that is definitely the first suspect. The rattle in the video is the exact same rattle that a loose mainboard does. Motor and hall sensor wire issues tend to present themselves in a different manner. And since the screws are loose after the rattle, it stands to reason that they are loose during the rattle.

Ps. I assume you also checked the bolts that attach the shell to the pedal hangers?

Edited July 2, 2023 by mrelwood

[TimmyFPV]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

If the main board screw threads are stripped, that is definitely the first suspect. The rattle in the video is the exact same rattle that a loose mainboard does. Motor and hall sensor wire issues tend to present themselves in a different manner. And since the screws are loose after the rattle, it stands to reason that they are loose during the rattle.

Ps. I assume you also checked the bolts that attach the shell to the pedal hangers?

Thanks! will fix the threads and everything so it can't come loose. Maybe put a nut or something on the other end of the screw. 

And yes the screws for the shell is super tight as it is the same as for the pedal hangers. I will keep you updated on how it goes tomorrow if there is a minute without rain outside haha

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by TimmyFPV

[alcatraz]

I think he connected the packs together again without equalizing their voltages first. The current rushing between them blew a fuse again.

[alcatraz]

The board and shell bolts need to be tightened down before powering on the wheel or rattle will occur. The gyro that controls the motor is on the board. It needs to be fixed solidly to balance properly.

Edited July 3, 2023 by alcatraz

[alcatraz]

Sand or mud = overpowered wheel. Don't ride on that for long periods.

Edited July 3, 2023 by alcatraz

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

I think he connected the packs together again without equalizing their voltages first. The current rushing between them blew a fuse again.

Though that would’ve blown the fuse right away when connecting the battery cables. His blew only after being powered on for 10 seconds and then the rattle.

[Uras]

5 hours ago, TimmyFPV said:

Could the motor be at fault or can I remove that from the problem list?

While the wheel is powered off, is it easy to rotate the wheel? Do you feel anything other than slight resistance from the motor while rotating? Also, try to move the wheel side to side to feel if there is any bearing play.

Re the batteries - I would try charging each side to full (one at a time). Then connect both and try a top up charge - that way you should have them in balance.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Uras

[Uras]

3 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Sand or mud = overpowered wheel. Don't ride on that for long periods.

I've done many kms in sand; it's a tough wheel with lots of torque. I suspect it was because one fuse was already blown so therefore only half power available when he rode in the sand.

[TimmyFPV]

3 hours ago, Uras said:

While the wheel is powered off, is it easy to rotate the wheel? Do you feel anything other than slight resistance from the motor while rotating? Also, try to move the wheel side to side to feel if there is any bearing play.

Re the batteries - I would try charging each side to full (one at a time). Then connect both and try a top up charge - that way you should have them in balance.

The motor is easy to rotate and the resistance when moving the motor by hand is like before. 

yes that's my idea to charge them up one by one... Could I just plug the charger into the red and blue cable on the battery directly to charge? 

Right now I have just connected three 6s lipo batteries in series on one side for testing the wheel.

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, TimmyFPV said:

Could I just plug the charger into the red and blue cable on the battery directly to charge? 

Yes, if you can do it safely with proper connectors.

 But there’s no reason to start fidgeting around with the batteries in the first place. That’s how battery fires easily start. Get the packs to the same voltage through the wheel, then connect them both in, and fix the mainboard attachment which seems to be the reason for the shake.

Edited July 3, 2023 by mrelwood

[TimmyFPV]

2 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Yes, if you can do it safely with proper connectors.

 But there’s no reason to start fidgeting around with the batteries in the first place. That’s how battery fires easily start. Get the packs to the same voltage through the wheel, then connect them both in, and fix the mainboard attachment which seems to be the reason for the shake.

Alright will do 🫡. The motherboard should be on like a mountain? 
Will fix the threads today and also put some locking nuts on the top of the screw.

[mrelwood]

Yes, the mainboard can’t move at all.

Locking washers might be better, as long as they don’t touch any electronic parts or traces.

[TimmyFPV]

On 7/3/2023 at 6:00 PM, mrelwood said:

Yes, the mainboard can’t move at all.

Locking washers might be better, as long as they don’t touch any electronic parts or traces.

I tried it again with everything sure on and nothing was loose... still it does the same thing...

Could it be Motor or something really off in the mainboard, I mean the battery plug melted. But I opened the motor and it looks like this! 

[TimmyFPV]

I have ordered a new mainboard. Was that a good choice?

 

[mrelwood]

6 hours ago, TimmyFPV said:

I tried it again with everything sure on and nothing was loose... still it does the same thing...

Did the mainboard screws get loose during the shake again?

6 hours ago, TimmyFPV said:

Could it be Motor or something really off in the mainboard, I mean the battery plug melted.

It’s really hard to say. I guess it could be either. The mainboard has been abused by connecting packs of different voltage, overburdening the wheel with a single battery, etc. it may have failed. Then again, it is also possible that there’s a short in the motor’s hall sensor cables or the sensors’ legs. Or one of the sensors may have failed. Or the sensor connector has failed on the mainboard.

6 hours ago, TimmyFPV said:

But I opened the motor and it looks like this!

The hall sensors would be the more interesting part, which seem to be in the other side.

Btw, when putting the motor together, make sure the stator and rotator are aligned and centered well!

 

56 minutes ago, TimmyFPV said:

I have ordered a new mainboard. Was that a good choice?

Let’s hope that it was.

[TimmyFPV]

1 minute ago, mrelwood said:

Did the mainboard screws get loose during the shake again?

It’s really hard to say. I guess it could be either. The mainboard has been abused by connecting packs of different voltage, overburdening the wheel with a single battery, etc. it may have failed. Then again, it is also possible that there’s a short in the motor’s hall sensor cables or the sensors’ legs. Or one of the sensors may have failed. Or the sensor connector has failed on the mainboard.

The hall sensors would be the more interesting part, which seem to be in the other side.

Btw, when putting the motor together, make sure the stator and rotator are aligned and centered well!

 

Let’s hope that it was.

First of all I want to thank so much for you tremendous help!

The mainboard did not get loose from the shaking this time. The hall sensor isn't shorted but I haven't checked it's functionality more than that. 
I can't get to the other side... The plate on the motor is stuck hard af.

 

[mrelwood]

1 minute ago, TimmyFPV said:

First of all I want to thank so much for you tremendous help!

You’re welcome! When the time comes, pay it forward. 

1 minute ago, TimmyFPV said:

The mainboard did not get loose from the shaking this time.

That’s good news! At least we can cross off a loose mainboard for good.

1 minute ago, TimmyFPV said:

The hall sensor isn't shorted but I haven't checked it's functionality more than that.

A shorter sensor would probably just throw an error and not engage the motor at all. It would have to be an intermittent error.

1 minute ago, TimmyFPV said:

I can't get to the other side... The plate on the motor is stuck hard af.

It’s quite improbable that there would be a visible issue anyway. I think it’s best to just wait for the new mainboard a see where it gets you.

[TimmyFPV]

Could it be that the wheel doesn't have any weight on it? I mean it doesn't have any of the weight that the normal batteries have... I just have some lightweight lipos on one side laying on the ground. 
just a thought after messaging with my friend.

Edited July 5, 2023 by TimmyFPV

[Roadpower]

I don't know what part of Sweden this shop is in but considering he is a professional and that you are guessing your way through this, it may be a good idea to reach out to him.

https://www.youtube.com/@icafeswe

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, TimmyFPV said:

Could it be that the wheel doesn't have any weight on it?

No.

2 hours ago, TimmyFPV said:

I just have some lightweight lipos on one side laying on the ground.

Stop playing with the batteries! Watch a few “li-ion fire” videos on YT and only use properly installed batteries that are designed for that wheel.

[TimmyFPV]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Stop playing with the batteries! Watch a few “li-ion fire” videos on YT and only use properly installed batteries that are designed for that wheel.

Sir, I don't need to watch li-ion fires on YouTube... I have seen a handful both Lipo and li-ion fires in real life. That's why I use smaller lipos, The smaller lipos are much cheaper and won't burn my wheel if they catch on fire. 
But thank you for reminding me and I will for sure take safety first, always
 

6 hours ago, Roadpower said:

I don't know what part of Sweden this shop is in but considering he is a professional and that you are guessing your way through this, it may be a good idea to reach out to him.

https://www.youtube.com/@icafeswe

I have reached out to him and was at his shop... and I will not bring my wheel to him. He basically said that he would not look at my wheel at all cause it would be too dangerous. He said that it probably would be best for me to buy a completely new wheel. He just said that the batteries was causing the wheel to go bananas because the connector was burned off. From my experience I have never seen a battery that is at OK voltage make a controller go crazy like in this case. 

He is maybe right, I don't know but I won't give away any of my things to repair I rather buy new things than someone else repairing my stuff. And he won't help me with anything without me paying like 100 dollars . I have also heard people have real good experience with him so maybe he is nice to some people.

Edited July 5, 2023 by TimmyFPV