App that adjusts top speed by weight

[woke rider]

I was doing some research on unlocking my z10 to 81km, but the discussion seemed to point out that it is only safe for riders of a low weight. I was wondering if the newer models factor a riders weight into the settings yet? Also, is the Nine tool still around and is it safe?

[Chriull]

11 minutes ago, earthtwin said:

I was doing some research on unlocking my z10 to 81km, but the discussion seemed to point out that it is only safe for riders of a low weight. I was wondering if the newer models factor a riders weight into the settings yet? Also, is the Nine tool still around and is it safe?

Riders weight cannot really be factored in by an EUC.

Available torque decreases linearly with speed. So with higher speeds less torque is available - if torque "is used up" one overleans and likely faceplants.

Higher weight not necessarily in all situations requires more torque.

Just with accelerations and on inclines needed torque is proportional to torque.

Also people with higher weights often have a bigger wind attack surface - so more torque is needed to overcome air drag. Proportional to the square of the speed.

So on a flat road without acceleration with the same wind attack surface weight does not (really) matter (in theory).

Beeing heavier one has to be more carefull with accelerations inclines and wind resistance.

Also if one is not smoothly and "selfbalanced" standing on an EUC the torque needed to balance the rider can be higher for heavier riders.

So in general this unlock can be unsafer for heavier riders - but does not have to be if one is experienced and careful.

[woke rider]

Wow, does it really unlock to 81km?

 

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

unlocking my z10 to 81km

Are you talking about 81 km as in range, or 81 km/h as in speed?

[woke rider]

I thought it was 81km as-in speed, lol, MRN76's website is still up and it says 55km as-in speed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the app is currently supported. I think it would be nifty if the apps could adjust for rider weight. I don't really see the need to go faster than 18mph.

Edited April 21, 2023 by earthtwin

[mrelwood]

Km (kilometer) is a measurement for distance, just like a mile.

Km/h, kmph or kph (kilometers per hour) is a measurement for speed, just like mph (miles per hour).

 You talk about unlocking a 45km/h wheel to 81km/h, and someone mentioning 55km/h, then you say that you don’t need to go faster than 18mph (= 29km/h).

 Sounds like there might be a bit still to learn before thinking about any unlocks.

 

 How do you think that the wheel should take the rider’s weight in consideration? What would you want it to do with that information?

[woke rider]

I'm not sure, but I think it would be swell for an app to take the riders height into consideration as well, hopefully to make the experience safer and more engaging. I was uncertain if they measure kilometers in hours, lough out loud. I just thought since they were using the metric system to measure speed, then they might measure time in the metric system too. I mean it's inconsistent to measure time differently than speed. Oh, well. Like, isn't mile kinda like a pound and kilometer more like a kilosecond? Consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_time So 18 miles per hour is acutally .008 km/second , there, that's consistent. 1000 seconds to travel 8 kilometers :-/ ,,, I guess?

 

And you are correct mrelwood, I have a lot to learn before installing a hack speed unlock. Another question if you don't mind, if I did install MRN76's hack unlock, would I be able to go back to factory settings, and if I installed the hack, would my wheel still beep and tiltback? My wheel has never beeped or tilted yet.

Edited April 22, 2023 by earthtwin

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

I'm not sure, but I think it would be swell for an app to take the riders height into consideration as well, hopefully to make the experience safer and more engaging.

And what exactly would the wheel have to do to make the experience safer and more engaging?

 

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

I just thought since they were using the metric system to measure speed, then they might measure time in the metric system too.

Yes. And you know what? Americans use metric system to measure time too. A second is a metric unit.

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

I mean it's inconsistent to measure time differently than speed.

Would be, yes. You might want to check out this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units

Metric and imperial systems both use seconds to measure time. 

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

 Like, isn't mile kinda like a pound and kilometer more like a kilosecond?

No. “Kilo” means “a thousand”. A kilometer is a thousand meters. A mile is about 1.6 kilometers, and a kilometer is roughly 0.6 miles. They both measure distance. It has nothing to do with time (seconds).

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

So 18 miles per hour is acutally .008 km/second

Km/s is not normally used. It’s km/h (kilometers per hour). Just like you don’t usually use miles per second. You use miles per hour (mph). 0.008 km/s is 29km/h. much more practical number.

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

And you are correct mrelwood, I have a lot to learn before installing a hack speed unlock.

More importantly, why would you install the hack?

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

Another question if you don't mind, if I did install MRN76's hack unlock, would I be able to go back to factory settings, and if I installed the hack, would my wheel still beep and tiltback?

I haven’t looked into his Z10 unlock, but if it’s anything like his MiniPro unlock, the wheel would still tilt back but only at a higher speed. But don’t quote me on that, it could be that it just removes the original safety measure leaving the responsibility to limit your top speed to yourself, so if you go faster than the wheel can, you fall down. Begode EUCs operate that way still to this day.

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

My wheel has never beeped or tilted yet.

In that case you have no need for the hack. I’d suggest reading about the SI measurement system instead… 

[woke rider]

I always feel like I'm to tall and heavy for my wheel when I'm riding, but I'm trusting it more now. It seems like refusing to factor in weight and height into the optimal wheel settings is like ignoring important information. Their should even be a male or female parameter as well. The more information the app has about the rider, the safer and more engaging the experience. If there is any doubt you could steal man my view point and I'll steal man yours, which basically seems like ignoring critical rider data.

 

If I were to steal man your perspective, which basically seems like: prove that more data will improve the app I'd say: The old adage, if it ain't broke don't fix it, everything is working fine so don't insult the status quo, with greater complexity comes greater chance for error, EUC riders are anti establishment and they like to personalize their riding experience, providing the app more meta data is an invasion of privacy. The tech hasn't caught up yet to the extra data.

Edited April 22, 2023 by earthtwin

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, earthtwin said:

The more information the app has about the rider, the safer and more engaging the experience.

Still, you seem unable to describe what the wheel would actually do differently if given the data about weight, gender and whatever.

 Self-balancing vehicles have one single goal: To keep the vehicle upright. If the pedals and the shell tilt forward or backwards, the vehicle compensated for that by spinning the tire so that it becomes vertical again. That’s all there is to it.

 The above process wouldn’t be any different if you weigh 100lbs or 250lbs, male or female, black or white, as long as the wheel has enough power to keep itself upright.

 There are however pedal sensitivity / ride mode settings that affect how fast the wheel reacts to being tilted forward and back. You can try adjusting that in hopes that it would make the ride more engaging to you personally.

 Be sure to check the tire pressure periodically as well.

[Chriull]

4 hours ago, earthtwin said:

I always feel like I'm to tall and heavy for my wheel when I'm riding, but I'm trusting it more now. It seems like refusing to factor in weight and height into the optimal wheel settings is like ignoring important information.

A wheel cannot stop one from speeding, overleaning or faceplanting. It can only give one a warning - imho by now best solved by @Freestyler's begode firmware mod to tiltback at some specific pwm % threshold. So one gets a warning once some safety margin is reached.

Afair the Z10 does not report pwm %, so some warnings by a third party app is not possible, too.

Also the Z10 firmware performs current limiting up to medium speeds, so such a pmw % warning would not help anyway in such situations.

4 hours ago, earthtwin said:

The more information the app has about the rider, the safer and more engaging the experience.

The wheel only knows if the wheel (rider) leans forward or backwards and accelerate or decelerate to keep one upright. That's all it does and can do.

The wheel can only warn by beeping and/or tilting.

The rest is solely the riders responsability.

[Chriull]

10 hours ago, earthtwin said:

unlocking my z10 to 81km,

As assumed by others above 81 km/h is the maximum no load free spin speed. One cannot get anywhere near this speed by riding - only if one lifts the wheel and let it spin up.

 

[woke rider]

Thank you both for helping to point me in the right direction to investigate the failure overlean point on my device. I think one of these days I will gear up and take my z10 out on the grass. Then find out how much overlean it can take at very low speeds to cut out. Now I am paying attention to one of the most important things an app should measure: to know my wheels current pwm %. I wonder if there is an app that displays that so I can learn the kind of pressure I need to apply at a certain speed and pwm % to induce a cut out. It seems all this time I have been trying to avoid a cut out, when I should be trying to cause a cut out under controlled circumstances in order to avoid a cut out when out and about.

Edited April 22, 2023 by earthtwin