Lifted my 16S for a 2.5" tire and eventually installed the tire...

[M640x]

Today I successfully lifted my KS16S in anticipation of installing a 2.5" tire.  I ordered the tire and decided that I wanted to lift the wheel in advance and ride it to ensure there wouldn't be any problems with the lift before installing the tire.  I've been doing research on it for a little while and after a 20 miler this morning I pulled the wheel apart.  It's not that difficult as the 16S disassembly is pretty easy as far as wheel assembly/disassembly goes.   The reason for wanting a wider tire is just to add a little stability to my 16S.  Currently it has a 2.125" tire.  I may also try to mod my 14D.  These are smaller/lighter wheels so of course they have an increased level of agility and I'm only trying to remove some of the inherent twitchiness that the wheels have.

 

Here's a brief summary of my steps:

I removed screws/bolts/pads so that the motor was unbolted from the shell.  Speedy feet has a pretty thorough YT vid on this.

I slid the motor down and re-positioned.  It was at this point that I found out 2 of the 4 bolt holes didn't line up.

There are 6 machine screws on each side of the wheel that hold the shell to the pedal hangers.  For this mod, only the top 4 pedal hanger screw locations and the bottom 4 plastic shell hole locations will be utilized.  I drilled the 4 holes wider in the plastic and test fit the wheel in the shell 3 times until I got them drilled correctly.  Quick tip for anyone else attempting this mod, I finally ended up using a 19/64" drill bit.

I also removed some plastic near the mounting holes where the axle wires exit the motor.  After lifting, these wires ended up being under the plastic.  I wanted to ensure that there wouldn't be any type of stress or rubbing that could affect them.  In the pics you'll see the axle wires and where they exit the motor.  That is where I removed the plastic.  I re-installed all bolts and screws and tested.

As far as the ride, it felt the same but not as twitchy as before.  Also, the pads now touch 3/4" higher on my legs.  It looks very cool and of course the plastic is 3/4" higher from the ground, curbs, obstacles etc.  I really like the look and I will be taking it on another 20 miler tomorrow or the next day for a long term test.

 

 

 

 

Update 23 Oct:  I did install the 2.5" tire on the 16S.  I already had the tire and the wheel was already lifted so I said why not.  The lift definitely helped with making room for it and it definitely has even more stability than with the lift alone.  Feels like a different wheel now.  I posted a couple pics later on in this thread.

Edited October 24, 2022 by M640

[M640x]

So new info.  The initial thought process for lifting and possibly installing a 2.5" tire was to gain more stability that the wider tire offers.  I'm not a new rider and I like effortless cruising down the road so any added stability is a plus in my book.  After lifting the wheel, I find an unexpected level of stability and a noticeable reduction in twitchyiness.  I don't grip the pads with my legs but they do touch on a regular basis.  It literally feels like I'm riding a different wheel now.

I like the way the wheel feels now so I won't be changing to a 2.5" tire any time soon.  If anyone has any questions on the lifting mod send me a message either here or to me directly.  Also, if anyone has lifted a 14D/S, give me a holler as it may be the next one I mod.  Ride On!

Edited October 4, 2022 by M640

[MetricUSA]

So a apparently you have no side clearance problems... 

[Funky]

If you really want you could lift it even higher..  

You could regulate how high the shell sits, by holes going upwards or more downwards. And same time still use all holes - less chance of cracking the plastic.

I'm thinking of using this idea for my 18xl. Lifting it more upwards and adding 18x3" tire. I already got K66 80/80-14 tire..

But if i lift my wheel, then i could get the same K66 tire but in 80/90-14 size. Which is closer to the 18x3" tire.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Funky

[Tawpie]

is the motor/hall sensor wire bundle long enough?

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

is the motor/hall sensor wire bundle long enough?

In my case i need only extra 1.5-2 Cm clearance. (First or maybe second row of screw holes. Same thing he did, just added plates for support.) When i was messing around inside the wheel, the wires had some slack. Also they can be run more directly. Not going around each corner, etc..  

[M640x]

On 9/30/2022 at 7:21 AM, MetricUSA said:

So a apparently you have no side clearance problems... 

 Was this a question or a statement?  Sorry if I missed it.  I don't really know what you mean by side clearance.

[M640x]

On 9/30/2022 at 1:14 PM, Funky said:

If you really want you could lift it even higher..  

You could regulate how high the shell sits, by holes going upwards or more downwards. And same time still use all holes - less chance of cracking the plastic.

I'm thinking of using this idea for my 18xl. Lifting it more upwards and adding 18x3" tire. I already got K66 80/80-14 tire..

But if i lift my wheel, then i could get the same K66 tire but in 80/90-14 size. Which is closer to the 18x3" tire.

I like the ride of the 16S as is so I won't be lifting it any further but the 14D I just purchased will get a similar plate type setup as you have here.  It should be here this week and after a 12 - 15 mile test ride I'm going to start the mod.  The lift should be around 2.5" and I'll find a semi knobby tire that fits in there.  Even though I'm a function over form guy and the lift is mostly for offroad and a bigger tire, I do like the way these wheels look when they're lifted.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, M640 said:

 Was this a question or a statement?  Sorry if I missed it.  I don't really know what you mean by side clearance.

He meant tire width can be to wide.. It wouldn't be possible to mount the tire/motor back into plastic casing, if it's to wide.

 

Example: (I will take numbers from my ks18xl wheel.) Regular tire that comes with my ks18xl is 18x2.5" size. It's width is ~64mm wide. But the EUC itself has space for 72mm wide tires. <<< I can't put bigger tire than 70mm As it would not fit into the wheel well. Or it may rub the plastic sides..

If you lift the wheel upwards. You can put any tire that still fits inside the wheel well. (My case if i want bigger tires - i need to cut tire sides down to 66-68mm wide.) Which i did to my K66 tire, it was 76mm wide originally. 76mm won't fit 72mm wheel well.

You need to measure how wide tires you can place into your wheel. (The gap where tire goes into plastic shell.) And add 2-3mm space both sides - so tire won't rub against shell.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Funky

[M640x]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

He meant tire width can be to wide.. It wouldn't be possible to mount the tire/motor back into plastic casing, if it's to wide.

 

Example: (I will take numbers from my ks18xl wheel.) Regular tire that comes with my ks18xl is 18x2.5" size. It's width is ~64mm wide. But the EUC itself has space for 72mm wide tires. <<< I can't put bigger tire than 70mm As it would not fit into the wheel well. Or it may rub the plastic sides..

If you lift the wheel upwards. You can put any tire that still fits inside the wheel well. (My case if i want bigger tires - i need to cut tire sides down to 66-68mm wide.) Which i did to my K66 tire, it was 76mm wide originally. 76mm won't fit 72mm wheel well.

You need to measure how wide tires you can place into your wheel. (The gap where tire goes into plastic shell.) And add 2-3mm space both sides - so tire won't rub against shell.

I measured when I put the 2.5" on my Tesla T3.  Luckily, someone had already put the same tire on a T2 so I was pretty sure it would fit and it did very tightly.  There's no plan to cut anything on the 14D but that "wild hair" may hit while I'm in there working on it.  I mostly want the benefit of added clearance of the higher plastic and the possibility of a bigger tire.  I'm pretty sure some of the street 2.5's I've found will fit.  I have found a couple 2.5" knobby tires and I've also found a couple 2.125 knobby tires that I know will fit.  I'll know more after I sky that 14D.   

Last thing I'll work on is lifting the pedals.  I know there are pedal hangers made for that and I'm trying to find a simpler solution.  There may not be but I'm pretty inventive and can usually come up with something that works.  I know that just lifting the pedals does nothing for the hangers because they'll be in their original location but I'm mostly interested in getting the front and rear of the pedals higher.

Edited October 4, 2022 by M640

[Funky]

1 hour ago, M640 said:

I measured when I put the 2.5" on my Tesla T3.  Luckily, someone had already put the same tire on a T2 so I was pretty sure it would fit and it did very tightly.  There's no plan to cut anything on the 14D but that "wild hair" may hit while I'm in there working on it.  I mostly want the benefit of added clearance of the higher plastic and the possibility of a bigger tire.  I'm pretty sure some of the street 2.5's I've found will fit.  I have found a couple 2.5" knobby tires and I've also found a couple 2.125 knobby tires that I know will fit.  I'll know more after I sky that 14D.   

Last thing I'll work on is lifting the pedals.  I know there are pedal hangers made for that and I'm trying to find a simpler solution.  There may not be but I'm pretty inventive and can usually come up with something that works.  I know that just lifting the pedals does nothing for the hangers because they'll be in their original location but I'm mostly interested in getting the front and rear of the pedals higher.

What i was trying to say 2.5" can be closer to 3" width or be even 2.125" (IN REAL LIFE.) Bigger knobbies = bigger tire in real life. (Knobbies - the rubber knobs doesn't count towards the size..)

Same as 80/90-14 tires. One can be 76mm wide, different name tire from different manufacturer will be right on mark 80mm wide. And if we look at "knobbies" same size 80/90-14 can be closer to 90mm wide - because of "knobbies".

If you don't know real life measurements - more or less it's guessing game, if tire will fit. Or how lucky you where.  

This is what i mean: 

Anyways good luck.  

Edited October 4, 2022 by Funky

[M640x]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

What i was trying to say 2.5" can be closer to 3" width or be even 2.125" (IN REAL LIFE.) Bigger knobbies = bigger tire in real life. (Knobbies - the rubber knobs doesn't count towards the size..)

Same as 80/90-14 tires. One can be 76mm wide, different name tire from different manufacturer will be right on mark 80mm wide. And if we look at "knobbies" same size 80/90-14 can be closer to 90mm wide - because of "knobbies".

If you don't know real life measurements - more or less it's guessing game, if tire will fit. Or how lucky you where.  

This is what i mean: 

Anyways good luck.  

Yup I did know that info about the knobby tires.  : )  I'll see what I can stuff in there.

[alcatraz]

Lifting a shell often isn't enough because it won't address the clearance in front or at the back of the wheel.

This is true on the Tesla that has a perfectly circular wheel well. If you've got an arched wheel well that provides more clearance at the front/back then lifting is a good solution.

[Mattman]

I like to mod shit, I noticed a much more appropriate driving style could be used with lifted pedals and shell.

[M640x]

Update:  I finally installed the 2.5" tire on the 16S.  I already had the tire and the wheel was already lifted so I said why not.  The lift definitely helped with making room for it and it definitely has even more stability.  Also installed a 2.5" tire on the 14D.  Coincidentally it's the same tire that's on the MCM5 V2.  Didn't know that initially, I just ordered a 14 x 2.5" tire on ebay.  14D pics are on the "Tire" threads.  I'll see about getting a pic or two of the 16S on here.

[mrelwood]

Didn't you have to cut the shell for the 2.5" tire, where the tire goes in (and out) the wheel well?? I did on my 16S when I made the same mod some 4 years ago.

 One point about the lifting process though:

 Originally the shell rests on top of the pedal hangers, and is only secured in place by the bolts. Now that you lifted the shell up, the stress forces go to only the bolts and not the actual shell structure that was designed for it.

 If 3/4” was the lifted height, I suggest that you manufacture 3/4” thick blocks of a material of your own choosing, and use them to retain the correct support at the top of the pedal hangers. That should give much more lifetime to the plastic around the bolts. They would also prevent the axle bolts from getting filled from all the mud and water spraying from the tire, as well as block the empty bolt holes from getting dust and water from entering the shell.

[M640x]

10 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Didn't you have to cut the shell for the 2.5" tire, where the tire goes in (and out) the wheel well?? I did on my 16S when I made the same mod some 4 years ago.

 One point about the lifting process though:

 Originally the shell rests on top of the pedal hangers, and is only secured in place by the bolts. Now that you lifted the shell up, the stress forces go to only the bolts and not the actual shell structure that was designed for it.

 If 3/4” was the lifted height, I suggest that you manufacture 3/4” thick blocks of a material of your own choosing, and use them to retain the correct support at the top of the pedal hangers. That should give much more lifetime to the plastic around the bolts. They would also prevent the axle bolts from getting filled from all the mud and water spraying from the tire, as well as block the empty bolt holes from getting dust and water from entering the shell.

I think it may depend on the tire that gets installed.  If I understand the part of the wheel you're mentioning, there's room there and it doesn't rub.  The tire profile isn't perfect and I have very slight rubbing on the left side once in a while.  I looked at it last nite and I'll take care of it today.  A minute or two with a small file and done.  On the other wheels that have had a tire size increase, I just ride for 50 miles or so and my tire takes care of the rubbing.  I thought about the blocks when I was researching the lift and it may be something I do in the near future.  Usually after I get done with a wheel I'm "over it" and need a week or two before I'll get the motivation to crack the case again lol.  

Update:  Rubbing gone... took care of it this morning.

Update #2:  Got to take the wheel out for a ride this morning, something beyond the driveway circles.  Wow it rides different with the 2.5.  Actually behaves a lot like a Z10 for those that might have had the opportunity to own/ride one.  Wants to stay upright and the foot/body inputs from me are totally different.  That part is difficult to explain except for it just plain out feels like a totally different wheel.  I'm going to give it approx. 50 miles before I decide if I like it or not.  I do however love the stability.  It no longer wants to fall into a corner, I have to make it go into a corner similar to the Z10.

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by M640