16X safe Amps

[wehey]

I’ve put about 100miles on the wheel and I’m growing in confidence.

 

I have been looking at the data in EUC World and have been hitting a maximum of 30A on the wheel.

 

I am thinking of setting an Amp alarm. What would be a good safe number to use?

Edited September 18, 2022 by wehey
Spelling

[Chriull]

Ks wheels report battery current which is in no direct relation to mosfets or motor wire burden.

As overburden alarm value one would need the motor current as reported by gw/begode and leaperkim wheels or even better the rms of this motor current.

[Funky]

12 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Ks wheels report battery current which is in no direct relation to mosfets or motor wire burden.

As overburden alarm value one would need the motor current as reported by gw/begode and leaperkim wheels or even better the rms of this motor current.

30A fuse? I think he meant that? If he rides and hits often ~30A it will burn? (Sorry, i have very little knowledge of these thing..) 

Same for my 18xl, i sometimes see a spike of ~28A.. At EucWorld Current/Speed tab.

[wehey]

It was only outputting 2044watts at the time if that helps

[Tawpie]

The "safe" current draw depends on the cells used in the battery, and I don't know what's under the blue shrink-wrap.

But.

KS has a reputation of protecting the wheel at all costs... it's rare to hear of burned MOSFETs or batteries or nickel strips in the 16X, I think in large part to KS being very/overly conservative in their firmware and simply not allowing the rider to use more current than the nannies at KS deem wise. Blown fuses are known to happen to those that ride stairs, don't do that with this wheel. And don't ride the beeps either, because the nannies would rather you get up close and personal with pavement than let the magic smoke out of the electronics. (which seems harsh, but it makes sense… if the magic smoke does come out, you still eat sh*t and you have expensive parts to replace)

Long story, but I wouldn't worry much about it. But experiment. If you set a current alarm at 30A, see what you're doing when you hit it. You could use it as a reminder to modulate your riding style, or don't bother with it at all and just watch safety margin.

FWIW and not that it means anything at all, but there are 2 green fuses in each battery pack to go along with the pair on the motherboard.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Tawpie

[Funky]

3 hours ago, Tawpie said:

The "safe" current draw depends on the cells used in the battery, and I don't know what's under the blue shrink-wrap.

But.

KS has a reputation of protecting the wheel at all costs... it's rare to hear of burned MOSFETs or batteries or nickel strips in the 16X, I think in large part to KS being very/overly conservative in their firmware and simply not allowing the rider to use more current than the nannies at KS deem wise. Blown fuses are known to happen to those that ride stairs, don't do that with this wheel. And don't ride the beeps either, because the nannies would rather you get up close and personal with pavement than let the magic smoke out of the electronics. (which seems harsh, but it makes sense… if the magic smoke does come out, you still eat sh*t and you have expensive parts to replace)

Long story, but I wouldn't worry much about it. But experiment. If you set a current alarm at 30A, see what you're doing when you hit it. You could use it as a reminder to modulate your riding style, or don't bother with it at all and just watch safety margin.

FWIW and not that it means anything at all, but there are 2 green fuses in each battery pack to go along with the pair on the motherboard.

Waa battery packs also got fuses?? Under the blue heat shrink? I thought those two fuses on motherboard where one for each pack? 18xl uses Samsung 35E batteries, my guess 16X uses the same? (Doh quick google search says 16X uses LG MJ1).

Doh i don't know "how good" are those batteries..

[RagingGrandpa]

11 hours ago, Funky said:

Waa battery packs also got fuses?? Under the blue heat shrink?

Yes... but I think it's 60A per pack, so the only way to melt them is a very severe fault, not just hillclimbing.

Edited September 19, 2022 by RagingGrandpa

[Funky]

10 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Yes... but I think it's 60A per pack, so the only way to melt them is a very severe fault, not just hillclimbing.

If those are 60A. (Can green fuzes be rated 30A and 60A? I thought they are colored for a reason? Or do 2x green count as one 60A? ) I figure the 30A fuses will burn first and only.. Before 60A ones burn. In most cases 60A ones should not even get "fazed".

Edited September 19, 2022 by Funky

[RagingGrandpa]

31 minutes ago, Funky said:

2x green count as one 60A

Yes  

[Funky]

7 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Yes  

Lol. I thought it was a joke 2x lower 30A = one 60A. But seems it wasn't..   

[Robse]

1 hour ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Yes  

Not 100% usable.  To fuses in parallel is not the same as two equal resistors in parallel.  If one of the fuses melt at 29,3 amps, and the other at 30 amps, then the power surge (because lover resistance) will apply the 29,3 amp fuse and blow this long time before the current reaches 60 amps, and from that point, the other fuse will blow.  If 2 fuses are used as one, you have to make sure that 1: the fuses are 100% equal and 2:  both fuses must be installed in an common mounting that will divide the load 100% equally.  And even if this is KingSong, i dont think that they have used that much development for a solution that could have been fixed with one 60 amp fuse.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Robse

[wstuart]

I keep my 16x under 25mph.  It's never given me trouble if I do that

[Funky]

8 minutes ago, wstuart said:

I keep my 16x under 25mph.  It's never given me trouble if I do that

Same. I never go past 27mph on my 18xl. Alarm is set at 26mph. As soon as i hear it - i slow down.  (I can even tell when it will start "screaming", just by wind noise and how fast everything is going past.) I normally stick around 22mph.

I have set the alarm way up there, so i don't hear it almost ever..

[RagingGrandpa]

26 minutes ago, Robse said:

To fuses in parallel is not the same as two equal resistors in parallel.

Why split hairs?

It's a melting fuse, with quite a bit of overhead, and also a significant part-to-part variation. As a statistical average, these two 30A fuses in parallel at the same place in the circuit will pass 60A "forever" without melting. And really, we only expect to need 30A from them, so plenty of margin here. 

26 minutes ago, Robse said:

If 2 fuses are used as one, you have to make sure that 1: the fuses are 100% equal and 2:  both fuses must be installed in an common mounting

And they did. Those fuse holders are co-located. 

26 minutes ago, Robse said:

could have been fixed with one 60 amp fuse

There are no 60A fuses in the standard AT size. 
So the options are: use a specialty fuse; or put two of the cheap AT fuses.

The real gripe here is exceeding their voltage rating... but the fireball doesn't last long enough to catch the nearby plastics on fire, so practically it hasn't been an issue for EUC's to use 32V-rated fuses. Almost all brands do.

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by RagingGrandpa

[Robse]

2 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Why split hairs?

It's a melting fuse, with quite a bit of overhead, and also a significant part-to-part variation. As a statistical average, these two 30A fuses in parallel at the same place in the circuit will pass 60A "forever" without melting. And really, we only expect to need 30A from them, so plenty of margin here. 

And they did. Those fuse holders are co-located. 

There are no 60A fuses in the AT class size. 
So the options are: use a specialty fuse; or put two of the cheap AT fuses.

The real gripe here is exceeding their voltage rating... but the fireball doesn't last long enough to catch the nearby plastics on fire, so practically it hasn't been an issue for EUC's to use 32V-rated fuses. Almost all brands do.

oh, i see

[rcgldr]

Most blade type fuses are rated to run at 110% for 100+ hours without blowing, so those 30 A fuses are effectively 33 A fuses. For a 30 A fuse with 40 A current, minimum blow time is 0.75 seconds. Link to a table of fuse blow time versus rating. Scroll  down to time current section.

https://www.pecj.co.jp/en/fuse/outline/p3.html

I don't know what current wheels report to EUC World. Riders of Inmotion V8F have reported peak currents over 30 A and peak power over 2200 w, while the V8F has a 30A fuse and a 1000 w nominal motor. I usually keep peak current below 20 A, but sometimes have reached a peak current of 25 A.  Average current is much less, usually around 3A, sometimes up to 5A.

Edited September 19, 2022 by rcgldr

[wehey]

9 hours ago, wstuart said:

I keep my 16x under 25mph.  It's never given me trouble if I do that

Yup. I have tiltback set at 25mph and alarms start at 22mph.