Is it a good/bad idea to go tubeless?

[lazybones99]

Let's say you find the right tire - like a Heidenau K66. It's tubeless. Let's say you can get a local bike / powersports shop to convert your EUC (maybe a brand-new Sherman Max) to tubeless. Is it worth it? 

I don't think you can go back - because you need to drill a hole in the rim for the valve.

Maybe you can have dedicated rims for tubed and tubeless tires if you want the ability to have both - but changing the rim seems like a lot of work???

[Funky]

50 minutes ago, lazybones99 said:

Let's say you find the right tire - like a Heidenau K66. It's tubeless. Let's say you can get a local bike / powersports shop to convert your EUC (maybe a brand-new Sherman Max) to tubeless. Is it worth it? 

I don't think you can go back - because you need to drill a hole in the rim for the valve.

Maybe you can have dedicated rims for tubed and tubeless tires if you want the ability to have both - but changing the rim seems like a lot of work???

Everyone has their own option about "worth". Some may think it's worth the hassle. Some may say it not worth one bit.. In my eyes it's not worth. What do you gain going tubeless anyways?

Simply use tube with tubeless tire. Funny thing i'm using K66 80/80-14 with tube right now.

Why change rim - buy second motor.  No need to change tire for summer/winter riding. Spend 300$ and never have the pain of changing tire.  

Edited April 3, 2022 by Funky

[lazybones99]

10 minutes ago, Funky said:

Simply use tube with tubeless tire. Funny thing i'm using K66 80/80-14 with tube right now.

I think this is my solution here or possibly the 2nd motor but that would be for next fall/winter maybe.

Thank you!

[mrelwood]

Absolutely not worth it. Back in the day I made my MSX tubeless, but the very next time I had the wheel on my workbench I reverted it back.

I have shared all the details here a few times, but in short, simply the time and effort it requires to make a tubeless tire to seal properly on a straight edged rim is simply not worth it. And centering the seating is also even more troublesome. Besides, the major gains of a tubeless is lost because you can’t run it on lower pressures anyway.

 Slime your tube and use the rim like it’s designed for.

[lazybones99]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Slime your tube and use the rim like it’s designed for.

What do you think about using a tubeless tire with a tube (like Funky suggests)? The reason I ask is I actually K66 and realized after I ordered it that it was tubeless. It sounds like the tubeless inner surface is rough enough to tear/pop a tube.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, lazybones99 said:

What do you think about using a tubeless tire with a tube (like Funky suggests)? The reason I ask is I actually K66 and realized after I ordered it that it was tubeless. It sounds like the tubeless inner surface is rough enough to tear/pop a tube.

Most of us who uses K66 or any other tubeless tire, use it with tube - Only thing that tube vs tubeless means is weight, tube tire is lighter, tubeless = heavier (it has more rubber on it.) When i got mine, i was amazed how K66 tire sides alone was 4-5x thicker than my original 18x2.5 tire. That tire compared to K66 is a toy. xD

 Ps. i did a lot of research for that tire, as mine 18xl can fit max 72mm tire in width. I knew that i will need to cut mine K66 sides - i did that, it works amazingly good. Also i gained more clearance from ground as 80/80-14 is bigger in diameter. I wanted to get 80/90-14 but it's too big for my euc.

In tire section you can see my post what/how i cut the tire. xD

Edited April 4, 2022 by Funky

[mrelwood]

50 minutes ago, lazybones99 said:

What do you think about using a tubeless tire with a tube (like Funky suggests)? The reason I ask is I actually K66 and realized after I ordered it that it was tubeless. It sounds like the tubeless inner surface is rough enough to tear/pop a tube.

I might’ve been the first to sing the K66 gospel, and I’ve been running it with a tube since I got it. The inner surface doesn’t really feel any more rough than that of my tube type tires.

 

9 minutes ago, Funky said:

Only thing that tube vs tubeless means is weight, tube tire is lighter, tubeless = heavier (it has more rubber on it.) When i got mine, i was amazed how K66 tire sides alone was 4-5x thicker than my original 18x2.5 tire. That tire compared to K66 is a toy. xD

You are not really comparing apples to apples here... The original tire on your wheel was a bicycle tire, the K66 is a motorcycle tire. Both groups have tubed as well as tubeless tires, but you are comparing drastically different kinds of tires here, not just tubed vs tubeless.

 The shape of the tire bead is different in tubeless vs tubed tires, as they are made for different kinds of rims.

[Funky]

43 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

You are not really comparing apples to apples here... The original tire on your wheel was a bicycle tire, the K66 is a motorcycle tire. Both groups have tubed as well as tubeless tires, but you are comparing drastically different kinds of tires here, not just tubed vs tubeless.

 The shape of the tire bead is different in tubeless vs tubed tires, as they are made for different kinds of rims.

I know it's bicycle tire. (Doh i thought it's E-bike.) That's why i said "toy". xD Motorcycle tires are way better for euc. As they are more rigid overall. Most low/mid end euc use those flimsy bike tires.

Also true about bead, forgot about that. But in our case the bead doesn't mean much, because we are using tube anyways.

[Unventor]

For now I have not a practical experience going all tubeless. I do use the V11 with K66 80/90-14 and that works fine with a tube. Now with that out of the way I will move into my thoughts and expectations. 

If a tire can rotate on the rim under high torque then a tubed solution risk ripping of the valve. I think a few sherman riders had this happen to them. Now you could argue it might not be airtight seal if the tire rotate. But I think a slime or similar sealant might solve it. 

In case you get a puncture with a tubed solution then you need to remove motor to fix this unless slime or similar can fix it. With a tubeless solution you might not need to remove the tire to fix the leak. There are kits to do this. If that will solve all leaks, I doubt it but I can see it as a benafit. 

When running with a tubed solution then some riders ride with low pressure and risking rim damage. On a tubeless solution the pressure is often a bit higher, with means you likely need a suspension system as the tire is harder. But it also means a smaller contact surface which can have different impacts. Good and bad. 

Right now I can't evaluate which is best. But many mcs, mopeds and cars are tubeless as I understand it. But if that work as well for EUC I am not sure. But to facilitate a good solution the rim should probably be made for tubeless use. 

Like many things in life I see both pros and cons. It might not be a simple question to answer. 

[spitfire1337]

I've got a k66 installed on my s18 and went tubeless with it. It's not to difficult and can still revert back to tubed if I wanted to. I did have to make the hole slightly larger for the tubeless valve stem but it's not much larger and wouldn't impact going back to tubed if I ever wanted to.

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, spitfire1337 said:

I've got a k66 installed on my s18 and went tubeless with it.

That looks like a tubeless bicycle valve. Seems to fit well! All I found back when I tried tubeless were MC valves. They require a much bigger hole, and some of them are too short for the rim thickness.