Most vivid EUC fireworks display ever!

[Scottie888]

Hey guys&gals, I just caught this YT vid. I'm sure there might be worse fires but this vid is the most eye boggling case of EUC thermal runaway I've ever seen. Title says it an 84v Monster with 10k miles on it. Crazy stuff we're putting btwn our legs 😮

 

[Jengajuice]

I wonder if I'll be able to sleep soundly tonight with my MSX resting peacefully nearby. >_<

Really though, watching that is making me reconsider what a safe storage arrangement entails.

[meepmeepmayer]

5 hours ago, Jengajuice said:

I wonder if I'll be able to sleep soundly tonight with my MSX resting peacefully nearby.

These fire stories are why my wheel is now resting peacefully in the tiled hallway with nothing flammable nearby instead of where it used to (carpet!).

[redsnapper]

Until regulatory reqs force the use of designs that prevent thermal runaway, caution should be used in the storage and charging of EUCs. Consider the effects of toxic smoke and flames on the storage area and your escape plan if disaster strikes. Never leave machines charging overnight (as a fire while you sleep will give much less time for escape and/or mitigation ). These fires happen - take the time to implement a good risk mitigation setup so damage is minimal if you are unlucky enough to have one happen to you!

A very deep dive on battery safety technical problems & approaches:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s41918-019-00060-4

[RagingGrandpa]

Location: San Diego, USA

EUC: 84V Monster, >10,000 miles ridden

Rider's description:
"I rode in the heavy ass rain a few times and I had a wiring adapter with some smaller gauge wires, could have been a few different things, was not Gotway's fault for sure"

https://www.facebook.com/groups/352845635409860/permalink/793823701312049/

[Scottie888]

9 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Rider's description:
"I rode in the heavy ass rain a few times and I had a wiring adapter with some smaller gauge wires, could have been a few different things, was not Gotway's fault for sure"

https://www.facebook.com/groups/352845635409860/permalink/793823701312049/

With GW bashing being fashionable nowadays, I did have a moment of thought before posting this vid. GW's already being blamed for everything incl mosquito bites, I'm glad the person most involved came out with some truth.

Finally GW's not responsible. For this fire, at least😅

[null]

4 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

Finally GW's not responsible. For this fire, at least😅

I’d say they are responsible for selling véhicules who can fail catastrophically from being in the rain.. 

[Scottie888]

8 minutes ago, null said:

I’d say they are responsible for selling véhicules who can fail catastrophically from being in the rain.. 

Don't wanna be disagreeable here but being the owner of a few GW wheels, I have to say there's no where in the manual or any factory literature that says its waterproof or meant to be waterproof.

Indeed, there's this disclaimer in the manual (quote verbatim) "Do not ride in snowy conditions or on wet roads that are soft, muddy, or icy."

Take that for what it is & what it means. We can certainly decide to not purchase their products based on their specs but lets assign blame appropriately. Its OUR RESPONSIBILITY if we wish to take a wheel (or any product for that matter) out in conditions the mfgr says its not designed for. 

Please buy or not any product that doesn't meet our requirements. I'm not a GW apologist by any means as I wish their products to be much better than it is so I hate to say this (& most certainly no offense intended) but its erroneous misleading statements that doesn't contribute to safety. Facts would be much better than hysteria, IMO ofcos.

[meepmeepmayer]

18 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

there's this disclaimer in the manual

The "manual" also says the top speed of any of their wheels is 20kph

[Scottie888]

10 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The "manual" also says the top speed of any of their wheels is 20kph

In that case, shouldn't we all be ecstatic that for once, a product over performs & over delivers rather than the other way🤔. Perhaps this is the one (& only one) aspect of GW that we should applaud😋

PS: manual doesn't say topspeed is 20 (or 25) kph but rather "safe cruising speed" is xzy. Just the facts ma'am just the fact. LOLs just playin with ya meeps

Edited May 15, 2021 by Scottie888

[null]

11 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

Don't wanna be disagreeable here but being the owner of a few GW wheels, I have to say there's no where in the manual or any factory literature that says its waterproof or meant to be waterproof.

I don’t want to be disagreeable here either, but these devices are, by nature, for outdoor use. Not being able to safely take a common and unpredictable weather condition is, IMO, irresponsible to say the least.

I’m glad for you if you are ok with this, but to me it is borderline criminally negligent..

Edited May 15, 2021 by null

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[EUC Sharkman]

Wheel catching on fire is a mainstay on the list of nightmares for EUC riders, along with true unwarranted cutouts, and being run down by reckless car drivers.

 

Consider making the necessary precautions. I have been considering repurposing the fireplace as a wheel storage area, and we have a fire pit in the backyard for a more extreme case. Trying to figure out what would be too overboard. Right now I just have them on stands near the front door over the coat rack. Maybe not so wise.

 

[Camenbert]

On 5/15/2021 at 2:06 AM, null said:

I don’t want to be disagreeable here either, but these devices are, by nature, for outdoor use. Not being able to safely take a common and unpredictable weather condition is, IMO, irresponsible to say the least.

As an owner of a MCM5 that have fall in a lake, and did not burn since, I can tell you the battery pack -the subject here- is very well protected.
There is a lot of silicone paste where the cable exit the blue heat-shrink, providing a good waterproof protection - I dont see how water can penetrate.

Here, the man say he mod and this should be the reason of fire, modding is always a risk, even if that was IP67...

My adventure in the lake cost me in the other hand RGB LED, Buzzer, Bearings, even MB as there were no more headlamp.
Fortunately IPxx Wheels are coming
 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Camenbert

[meepmeepmayer]

7 hours ago, TheSlyGiraffEV said:

I have been considering repurposing the fireplace as a wheel storage area

 I like your pragmatic thinking here. Wheels are as they are, might as well go with the flow

[redsnapper]

On 5/16/2021 at 6:10 AM, Camenbert said:

As an owner of a MCM5 that have fall in a lake, and did not burn since, I can tell you the battery pack -the subject here- is very well protected.
There is a lot of silicone paste where the cable exit the blue heat-shrink, providing a good waterproof protection - I dont see how water can penetrate.

IMO this is a dangerous assumption - unless you unwrapped the battery back to see the paper under the heat wrap you really have no idea (water ingress into a submerged pack cannot be assessed from the outside of the pack and I say this from direct experience of thinking a pack was well sealed only to find serious water intrusion upon unwrapping) - there could be corrosion on the BMS or nickel strips that could lead to a spontaneous short/fire. Extreme caution and diligence must be used with any pack that has gone underwater! Ignore this advice at your own (and maybe others) peril...

[Camenbert]

The wheel was "floating" for me to grab it in time. A visual check inside just after was good enough, this area of the wheel was (mostly) dry.

I understand what you say, but have you look how they waterproof the battery pack nowadays?
It's nothing like ebike were indeed I have seen few time corrosion - and how many fire on the millions sold each year.

If you did look, but i dont know the V8, you wont be so sure.
I will look at any pictures that show me wrong (pack with silicone added).

About risk, what you purpose is an immediate risk - removing all the silicone paste without to damage the cables is already something, without to mention the short-cut when cutting the heat-shrink.
Plus a long term risk if not put back with the same care as they do in the factory.

There is a say for this : The remedy is worse than the disease.

About safety, there is no room on EUC, if you have doubt on your battery (too much sag, doubt on corrosion, unbalance or just after 3 years of services), no need to dismantle it, just change it.

[RagingGrandpa]

3 hours ago, Camenbert said:

A visual check inside just after was good enough

No!

Please digest this thread:
https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/19566-responsibly-dispose-of-16x/

Any modern EUC battery pack that was submerged in water needs to be opened and inspected by an experienced person.

Don't have experience with battery packs?
Remove it, destroy it, and discard it!

These batteries can and do start fires after getting wet.

  

On 8/21/2020 at 3:06 PM, RagingGrandpa said:

Please don't transport or ship those batteries until they're opened and tested...

But, you had the right idea in the end:

3 hours ago, Camenbert said:

if you have doubt on your battery, just change it.

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[Camenbert]

Exactly, change it if you dont trust your battery pack. I know mine.

There millions ebikes sold each year with less protected battery packs, they are not burning that often.

Anyway this will soon be a discussion of the past, see IPx7 protection on the V12.
You wont advise to open it after seeing water, will you?

[redsnapper]

my experience is with 2 packs from ks16x - well made and modern packs. outside inspection convinced me the packs would be fine. In fact one was dangerously corroded ( a ticking time bomb)! No submerged pack shld ever be assumed safe. Only way to know is to unwrap and inspect ( using plastic tools and proper safety measures outside). You may be comfortable assuming the pack is fine but imo you are playing russian roulette... instead of thinking it is fine you could know it via proper inspection. 

nuff said...

having seen machines burn 1st hand i hv relegated my eucs to outside metal shed in upside down file cab as a way to sleep soundly...

crude countermeasure but will contain flames well enough.

 

[Camenbert]

Yes, I saw your topic about this submerged wheel, it's interesting and it confirm my point if I can explain

So with "factory" silicone protection and after 10 minutes under the water (how deep to stay that long ?!?), you had one pack dry, one pack wet.
That's 50% chance after 5 to 10mn under water, with some pressure.

I did not see if the voltage of this pack (not to mention its sag) was still normal or not (preventing the need to open it before discard).

Anyway, you had legit doubts about every elements of that wheel, and you did right.
And as you especially bought this submerged wheel, you knew what you were doing.
 

So where apply The remedy is worse than the disease then?
I see advise to open battery pack at any issue after riding under the rain. This is wrong.

A nonsense because drops will never have the effect of submerging a pack (with pressure then).

Plus no-one know here the skill to whom the advise is given.
With some, the risk of disaster will be real and immediate.
For some other, if the pack was dry, there is a risk the waterproof protection (with already 50% failure from factory) will be poor,
creating problems in future were there were none.

ANYWAY the wheel that made fireworks here had nothing to do with water damage so I stop here.

 

[redsnapper]

5 hours ago, Camenbert said:

>> I should have said earlier - no personal criticism meant here. Just trying to bring attention to the unseen dangers of wet pack...

Yes, I saw your topic about this submerged wheel, it's interesting and it confirm my point if I can explain

So with "factory" silicone protection and after 10 minutes under the water (how deep to stay that long ?!?), you had one pack dry, one pack wet.
That's 50% chance after 5 to 10mn under water, with some pressure.

I did not see if the voltage of this pack (not to mention its sag) was still normal or not (preventing the need to open it before discard).

>>voltage was static ( no sagging over time ) - agreed this was extreme condition immersion

Anyway, you had legit doubts about every elements of that wheel, and you did right.
And as you especially bought this submerged wheel, you knew what you were doing.
 

So where apply The remedy is worse than the disease then?
I see advise to open battery pack at any issue after riding under the rain. This is wrong.

>> I agree - we are only talking about machines that go under water (or are exposed to water way beyond normal conditions)

A nonsense because drops will never have the effect of submerging a pack (with pressure then).

Plus no-one know here the skill to whom the advise is given.

With some, the risk of disaster will be real and immediate.

>> proper safety squint must be used!!!!

For some other, if the pack was dry, there is a risk the waterproof protection (with already 50% failure from factory) will be poor,
creating problems in future were there were none.

ANYWAY the wheel that made fireworks here had nothing to do with water damage so I stop here.

>> the advice to open pack is for very specific way out of spec water exposure (submerged,immersed,etc.). The basic point is that a pack cannot be properly inspected from the outside (no matter how well it appears to be sealed), and if a wheel gets extreme water exposure, it is much more dangerous to assume the pack is fine than to discard or properly verify it. The risk of proper verification can be mitigated with a little research and the pack can be resealed very easily.  My message is to take wheel immersion seriously because it can lead to spontaneous fire long after the immersion incident (and while the machine is sitting idle). @RagingGrandpa has provided great guidance on the dangers of wet/damaged packs & for that I am thankful. Where you draw the line on when to open a pack is subjective for sure. I would not sleep comfortably if I knew I had a machine that had significant water exposure and had not properly verified the pack (I bag my machine if I ride in  rain). Others may have a higher degree of risk tolerance... But I think we have flogged this topic pretty well. Thankfully fires are rare enough and batts will eventually have coatings to prevent thermal runaway.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by redsnapper