Spent the day on two wheels: KS18XL and KS S18

[Obee]

In a chatty mood so figured I would share my thoughts.

I've got just shy of 1000 miles on the 18XL which I got last summer as my first wheel.  I've got about 100 miles on S18 which i got just after Christmas.  I live in New Hampshire where we have winter, so its been awhile since I have been able to ride a lot.

Today it hit 50 degrees Fahrenheit and I rode.  25 miles or so on the S18, 10 on the 18XL.

The S18 (for me) is supposed to be the off road wheel.  But the snow, ice, and mud, kept me on the pavement, some smooth some rough. I rode this wheel first and most today. 

I was a little annoyed to find that the tire is not perfectly round, or perfectly set, or something, because on very smooth pavement you can feel a "thunk thunk thunk" and look down and see the tire wobble.  I chose to ignore this and was a little happier to discover that the less you pay attention to it, it faded away and didn't really impact anything.

Some stats.  I weigh 180 pounds.  Upper chamber 250 psi, lower chamber  100 psi, tire pressure 30 psi.  Rebound wheel set to fastest setting.  This is fairly stiff suspension and fairly soft tire.

I cruised around town (Keene NH) on sidewalks, through parking lots, on the streets, around the cemetery, hitting a top speed of 28.7 mph according to euc world app.

The turning is great. This is what Wrong Way calls a batch 2 wheel.  At least when I saw his pretty recent video it looked the same and has the same tire.

Compared to what I am used to it feels like you can lean the wheel over and it will arc in ever tighter circles.  I can turn tighter and slower on this wheel than the 18XL.

Sometimes the ride feels bumpy despite the suspension and you wonder if it's really worth it.

I started the ride at 100 percent battery and after 25 miles was at 40 percent battery.  I got beeps while leaning into accelerating up hill.

I had fun but felt like the pads were wearing into my pants on my calfs.

Then I switched to 18XL. Tire pressure about 30 psi.  Its more comfortable on the legs.  No chaffing.  You can carve turns on it too, but it feels a little different and I am not able to turn it as tight and slow.  Narrower wheel.

Cruising along on pavement I was thinking it's just the same (ish) and then I hit a little unseen divot.  Said "whoah".  This happened several times over 10 miles of riding and I realized that the S18 suspension had been doing more work than I realized.

Felt much more confident leaning into accelerating up hill.  Never got beeped at.  Never feel range anxiety on the 18XL.  

Felt more "speed wobble" prone after hitting bumps or dips and also under braking.  This went away somewhat after an adjustment period where I felt like I was relearning the wheel a bit.  I was trying to ride fast on smooth pavement to see if it's easy or better on the 18Xl than S18.  Surprised me that it took awhile to beat the 28.7 mph fastest speed of the day on the S18 with a speed of 29.2 on the 18XL.

After awhile on the 18xl I found my knees were doing more work, and also I think my brain was doing more work.  Not in a bad way.

End result... I really enjoyed both.  Looking forward to using S18 on dirt trails where it belongs.  But even on pavement its really good.  Maybe as good as 18XL except range,  ability to really lean into hills, and comfort of the pads.

Ok I think they both have their place and will both be used in the future.

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Obee

[Hangman]

This is good to hear regarding these wheels.  I have been looking for more information on how the 18XL handles & the S18 after a year from release.  Granted you mentioned your S18 is possibly "second batch" but still it is good to hear the description of the feel with these.

I am debating currently on investing in either the KS 16X or the S18.  I really want the range but at the same time, I want the comfort of the suspension.  I do not want the maintenance issues & extra upkeep that apparently comes with the suspension wheels though (Been following too closely the IM V11) so I'm really leaning more toward the 16X.

I know the two wheels (16X vs 18XL) are so similar in their specs that it really comes down to personal preference.  Currently I'm preferring the 3" tire & the looks of the 16X over the 18XL.

I am hoping the 16X will react in its turns much like you described the S18 handles.  I'm also hoping because the 16X is as tall as the 18XL, that it'll be as comfortable as the 18XL in it's ride, but I have no way to verify other than hearing / reading reports like this one.  So thank you for posting.

[Rotan]

I'm also torn between s18 and 18xl... I discarded the v11 for the hollow motor, less interesting suspension and look.

But the s18... is beautiful, and can't decide if the look and suspension is worthy the loss in range. It's gonna be some hard thinking :S

[Y4SS]

16X is the wheel, good speed, long battery range, and very manoeuvrable ~ 14 months and never looked back from dirt trails or pavements 

[Rotan]

3 hours ago, Y4SS said:

16X is the wheel, good speed, long battery range, and very manoeuvrable ~ 14 months and never looked back from dirt trails or pavements 

I'm very tall (196cm) and wanted a 18 wheel...

I wanna be sure that the suspension is really a good value, with a great impact in comfort and safety... else I'd go for the extra range and less complexity of the 18xl

[Hangman]

8 hours ago, Y4SS said:

16X is the wheel, good speed, long battery range, and very manoeuvrable ~ 14 months and never looked back from dirt trails or pavements 

This is what I am counting on for now.  Perhaps when I'm a little older & my knees are a little weaker, perhaps KS will have updated the S18 to perfection ... or perhaps a better, more long distance S18 model wheel.

[.....]

The locksong 18l/xl and 16x are all mature in design and top class wheels. I can spin my 18l on a dime, about as easily as my mten nowadays. I too am waiting on a suspension wheel that adds suspension but with less overall compromises. Maybe next year, maybe not.

[Rotan]

Well, if you already own a 18l or 16x, then getting an s18 is kind of a whim... 

But if you just have a 14d like me, then choosing between 16x, 18xl and s18 is tough... cos I can give up to a chunk of range IF it's for some REAL quality of ride... 

[mrelwood]

10 hours ago, Rotan said:

Well, if you already own a 18l or 16x, then getting an s18 is kind of a whim... 

But if you just have a 14d like me, then choosing between 16x, 18xl and s18 is tough... cos I can give up to a chunk of range IF it's for some REAL quality of ride... 

I’d go with a tried and true design if I were you. To my knowledge most of the issues since the rushed S18 launch are still there. And tbh, disregarding the bearing issues some people get with the hollow bore motor, after riding the V11 the suspension on all three S18s I tried felt like a lackluster at best. Design may be top notch, but the execution leaves way too much to desire.

[FinRider]

47 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I’d go with a tried and true design if I were you. To my knowledge most of the issues since the rushed S18 launch are still there. And tbh, disregarding the bearing issues some people get with the hollow bore motor, after riding the V11 the suspension on all three S18s I tried felt like a lackluster at best. Design may be top notch, but the execution leaves way too much to desire.

This is good advice.

Both the S18 and the V11 have their own unique ”issues” at the moment... and both are so severe in their own way that I could not recommend either wheel to someone who is not mechanically inclined enough to fix & repair the wheel on their own. Be it a full tear-down on the S18 to fix the pivot arm binding/rotation, axle alignment, etc or to modify/change the motorbearings on the V11.

[Hangman]

On 3/14/2021 at 4:09 AM, FinRider said:

This is good advice.

Both the S18 and the V11 have their own unique ”issues” at the moment... and both are so severe in their own way that I could not recommend either wheel to someone who is not mechanically inclined enough to fix & repair the wheel on their own. Be it a full tear-down on the S18 to fix the pivot arm binding/rotation, axle alignment, etc or to modify/change the motorbearings on the V11.

This is good advice for me.  While I am mechanically inclined, I am not interested in 'working' on the wheel, I'd prefer to ride it.  I am also workspace, tool, & time challenged.  Things I need to keep in mind while I peruse the desires of my heart.

[FinRider]

48 minutes ago, Hangman said:

This is good advice for me.  While I am mechanically inclined, I am not interested in 'working' on the wheel, I'd prefer to ride it.  I am also workspace, tool, & time challenged.  Things I need to keep in mind while I peruse the desires of my heart.

Space & tools shouldnt be your concern. A good set of allen keys and screw drivers will get you sorted with the S18 at least. Can’t speak for the v11 as I do not have experience with it, but I would imagine thats all you need. There are also great writeups on the forum and at least the official KS teardown videos are actually really good and all you need as a tutorial to get the wheel apart.

oh, a wise or bearing puller might be needed if your bearings are bad... easy to DIY with a socket, rod, washers and bolt though. A dremel to hone oit the cavities would not hurt either. Nothing that you cant do on your diningroom table.

time is also so different for everyone. I completely overhauled my S18 in 2 evenings... a rainy weekend, so no riding time lost 😎.

I guess my point is that one should not be afraid to dig into these wheels... all wheels require TLC at some point and not all of us have a shop in their town where they can bring them in for repairs. This should be part of every curicculum for your EUC 101 class.

[Hangman]

15 minutes ago, FinRider said:

Space & tools shouldn't be your concern. A good set of allen keys and screw drivers will get you sorted with the S18 at least. Can’t speak for the v11 as I do not have experience with it, but I would imagine thats all you need. There are also great writeups on the forum and at least the official KS teardown videos are actually really good and all you need as a tutorial to get the wheel apart.

...

I guess my point is that one should not be afraid to dig into these wheels... all wheels require TLC at some point ... This should be part of every curicculum for your EUC 101 class.

Yep.  This is the mechanically inclined part.  I wouldn't have a problem with this.   And I agree, if we are willing to invest in a wheel, we should be willing to invest in the upkeep of the wheel.

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oh, a wise or bearing puller might be needed if your bearings are bad...  A dremel to hone oit the cavities would not hurt either.

Now this is the tool(s) I don't have.  While there are makeshift remedies & workarounds, my luck would be I'd need a press type puller (The large types seen at Big O Tires).

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Nothing that you cant do on your diningroom table.

Right, And I CAN'T do it on my dining room table.  I'd be up the ... crick without a paddle & a prayer in the time it takes to say "E U C". 

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time is also so different for everyone. I completely overhauled my S18 in 2 evenings... a rainy weekend, so no riding time lost

Again, my luck would be two weeks, not two evenings.  And I can't afford two weeks without riding ... it hurts too much. 😉 😁

[Rotan]

On 3/14/2021 at 10:09 AM, FinRider said:

Both the S18 and the V11 have their own unique ”issues” at the moment... 

I thought current batches of the s18 (the ones with that asymmetrical tire) were with a completly functional suspension now... 

[Obee]

My S-18 has that asymmetrical tire and has no suspension issues.  

Worked perfectly right out of the box. (after setting pressures)

There is the slight wobble in tire but it's slight enough to ignore, not sure the fix for that. 

[Hangman]

34 minutes ago, Obee said:

There is the slight wobble in tire but it's slight enough to ignore, not sure the fix for that. 

I've been told to let most all of the pressure out of the tire & massage the tire.  add a little air & massage again.  this 'balances' the tire on the rim a bit better.  If this is indeed the case (usually is), the tire will feel butter smooth once your filled up to your riding pressure.

If you have an anamoly in the tire, well then all bets are off. 😁

[FinRider]

9 hours ago, Rotan said:

I thought current batches of the s18 (the ones with that asymmetrical tire) were with a completly functional suspension now... 

They probably are..- which means that no major modification is required to get going. However, as the complexity of the KS S-18 suspension wheel is way different than lets say the 18XL, you will have to perform more maintenance on the wheel over time.... this is where the DIY / mechanically inclined attitude comes in.

For example, the stanchion tubes have ”plastic” covers on them that simply will not stay in place over time. This means that dirt and grime will find its way in there and this needs to be opened up and kept clean as there is no possible way to do this from the outside. On the other hand, doing this is not that much more complicated than repairing a blown tire, so again, its not something to be afraid of, just something that one definitely has to take into account.

If you are looking for a wheel to just ride and forget about, then chosing a 18XL, V10F etc is the safer bet.