New decisions

[DWOTR]

A very brief introduction before my question... I finally purchased a wheel a week and a half ago (used inmotion V8 with 150 KM.) Likely due to lots of work in the past on bongo boards and other balance boards, it did not take very long to get the hang of it. I limited the speed to 20KMPH for now (Until I purchase a helmet and wrist guards, I have decided to try to minimize the chances of severe injury.) That said, the thing "beeps" at me pretty regular now. I'm pretending to be an adult and will not increase the max speed until I get the proper gear. But I'm pretty certain that at 215 lbs and a V8, I'm going to be looking for another wheel sooner than later.

 

So, I'm left with a few options.

1. Get used to this wheel. Spend the rest of the year on it (let's face it. By October in Alberta, I'm likely going to find it a little chilly.) It's not like it is unusable, nor have I really "outgrown" it as there is still lots that it can teach me. But I know this limited speed thing is going to hold me back from taking it to work and using it to it's full potential.

2. Purchase a used MSX. There in one right now with 500 KM and the owner wants $2000. Might be able to talk him down a little? The nice thing is, no waiting. I could be on it next week. 

3. Get the Z10 from Ali. I love the looks of the Z10- and it for the longest time it was my "dream wheel". But the extreme lack of customer service, the battery pack, the known issues all add up to me wondering if I should indulge my "adult" side and refuse the wheel. But from ali there is a $1700 CAD option. That seems reasonable- but would I get a lemon- would I be unhappy with the range once I spent more time with it?

4. The last two options are a MSX and the MSuperpro. After a lot of time reading here and looking at reviews, I was pretty sure the MSX was going to be my first wheel (and the the V8 came up at a great price.) Both are a little more expensive. I really don't know if the suspension is worth it. But as mentioned above, I'm far closer to middle age, and my knees are not quite what they once were. I assume the suspension would be "nice." But I really, really hate buying the first batch of anything. So, I could order early spring...

 

I'm kind of leaning towards option 1 or 2. I have just started to ride backward and on one foot (both short distances right now.) I know that there is a lot that I could do and practice before "needing" to upgrade. There is nothing wrong with the wheel- but I know that the speed is going to feel very limiting even once I bump it up a little. My biggest problem is that I ride on very open paths that are in good repair up by the airport or side streets near home. I think if I rode downtown, or in congestion, it would probably be more than fast enough. But when it is a 3KM straight shot with no traffic, no pedestrians, and no obstacles, I seem to end up feeling like I "should" be going a little faster...

 

So, I'm open to thoughts. Have I overlooked a wheel that I potentially should be considering? I really don't want a "mid" level wheel. I think that I want to pick one that will the the "final" wheel (or at least be perfect for a few years.) I should add that I seem to jump to grass quite often and dirt paths over paved (hence the MSX or Z10. I'm pretty sure that I want to do offroad a little more- but if I spent the rest of the year with the V8, maybe I would find that I am really just a road and path kind of person...)

 

*I'm also open to somebody hitting me over the head to remind me to get a helmet and will not complain if you call me stupid for learning without the gear. To be fair, I did stop at sport check where they were sold out of wrist guards in anything but small and had no helmets in my size... 

 

 

[Howes Feng]

MSX is the best choice, but I don't recommend you buy that used one for $2000. I sent a message to you, please have a look.

[Tinkererboi]

Holy shit, 1 week and you are already going backwards?! You are definitely going to outgrow that wheel in no time. If I were you I would fork out for a flagship with good torque and tyre clearance - Be it MSP or S18 or 16x. Try not to get the MSX as it's already outdated now and will soon leave you thirsting for more. We all went through that phase at one time. Exception is if there are unusually sick deals, like sub 1k. 

Try to only get the models which have official battery sizes, as there has been way too many battery explosions from third party seller "upgraded" packs recently.

Gotta ask, what's a bongo board?

Edited July 24, 2020 by Tinkererboi

[mrelwood]

 

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But I'm pretty certain that at 215 lbs and a V8, I'm going to be looking for another wheel sooner than later.

Even if you would tolerate the V8 top speed, the wheel is seriously under powered for your weight up to the point of being a severe safety issue. Despite advancing incredibly fast, as a beginner you don’t yet have much of a feel to whether the wheel can keep you upright in each situation that you face. Then there are the darn potholes and other surprises that require a large power headroom, which your wheel simply doesn’t have for you.

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1. Get used to this wheel.

Getting used to a V8 is a skill in itself, and not something that enthusiastic riders (like you clearly are) tend to do for more than a few months. Looking into your choices now is a smart move either way.

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2. Purchase a used MSX. There in one right now with 500 KM and the owner wants $2000.

That price is just ridiculous, no matter which model of MSX it is.

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3. Get the Z10 from Ali.

You yourself laid out three major reasons not to buy the Z10...

Yes, the MSX is an old model, but even on the original 84V model there is very little to grow out of. It’s still a very powerful wheel that can safely go faster than any KS or Inmotion probably ever will. A used MSX at a reasonable price would be a great purchase, as long as the battery hasn’t been ruined.

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I really don't know if the suspension is worth it.

Some of us with knee, ankle, or back issues are certain that it is, despite the V11 barely having been born. But, no matter how confident I am about Inmotion nailing it for next week’s batch already, I must admit that there are always risks to early production EUC models.

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I really don't want a "mid" level wheel.

This may not seem as straightforward as one would hope and expect. For a lot of riders (NewYorkers excluded) a mid level wheel is all they will ever utilize, and more. There are also many scales: Speed, power, build quality, etc. Going GotWay for example, one easily tops at speed and power, but regarding build quality and durability they  buy a mid level wheel.

 What is top level for you? Speed, power, durability, warranty, build quality, looks, or something else?

 Yeah... going down the rabbit hole opens up more questions than it gives answers. In the end, we need to buy with our heart and choose the wheel we want the most. That way the quirks (that all wheels have) are the easiest to live with.

[DWOTR]

On 7/23/2020 at 11:10 PM, Tinkererboi said:

Holy shit, 1 week and you are already going backwards?! You are definitely going to outgrow that wheel in no time. If I were you I would fork out for a flagship with good torque and tyre clearance - Be it MSP or S18 or 16x. Try not to get the MSX as it's already outdated now and will soon leave you thirsting for more. We all went through that phase at one time. Exception is if there are unusually sick deals, like sub 1k. 

Try to only get the models which have official battery sizes, as there has been way too many battery explosions from third party seller "upgraded" packs recently.

Gotta ask, what's a bongo board?

Sorry... I should have been more specific. Around 10 feet max backwards so far (usually less.) One foot not too much of a problem. That said, I decided to "show off" the one foot thing and hit the ground harder than I have to date on Friday. I think a big advantage is that my "testing ground" is not a public area and the only people who might be able to see me are the air traffic controllers. It makes me a lot less nervous knowing that nobody is around to laugh.

 

I appreciate the advice on the MSX. From my research (a year and a half old now), that was my choice. It still looks like a nice wheel. Now I'm leaning towards a Nikola- but I will look at the other suggestions you had as well.

Quote

Gotta ask, what's a bongo board?

Bongo board is a 1.5 - 3 foot board with a roller under it. You "rock" right and left. I then stacked a board that rocked forward and back on top of that to make it harder. I would put the short bongo board under my feet, the long one under my hands and do pushups. I used to love stupid "core" exercises. when I was at a gym with the equipment. The problem is that the new gym does not have it.

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by DWOTR

[DWOTR]

On 7/24/2020 at 9:28 AM, mrelwood said:

 

Even if you would tolerate the V8 top speed, the wheel is seriously under powered for your weight up to the point of being a severe safety issue. Despite advancing incredibly fast, as a beginner you don’t yet have much of a feel to whether the wheel can keep you upright in each situation that you face. Then there are the darn potholes and other surprises that require a large power headroom, which your wheel simply doesn’t have for you.

Getting used to a V8 is a skill in itself, and not something that enthusiastic riders (like you clearly are) tend to do for more than a few months. Looking into your choices now is a smart move either way.

Yes, the MSX is an old model, but even on the original 84V model there is very little to grow out of. It’s still a very powerful wheel that can safely go faster than any KS or Inmotion probably ever will. A used MSX at a reasonable price would be a great purchase, as long as the battery hasn’t been ruined.

Some of us with knee, ankle, or back issues are certain that it is, despite the V11 barely having been born. But, no matter how confident I am about Inmotion nailing it for next week’s batch already, I must admit that there are always risks to early production EUC models.

This may not seem as straightforward as one would hope and expect. For a lot of riders (NewYorkers excluded) a mid level wheel is all they will ever utilize, and more. There are also many scales: Speed, power, build quality, etc. Going GotWay for example, one easily tops at speed and power, but regarding build quality and durability they  buy a mid level wheel.

 What is top level for you? Speed, power, durability, warranty, build quality, looks, or something else?

 Yeah... going down the rabbit hole opens up more questions than it gives answers. In the end, we need to buy with our heart and choose the wheel we want the most. That way the quirks (that all wheels have) are the easiest to live with.

Wow. Thanks for the well thought out response. I have come to the conclusion that the most I will do on the V8 will be 25kmph. I think that you are probably correct about my weight and the wheel / safety. It may end up with my nieces or as a "beginner" wheel for others to try out.

I'll skip the used MSX. I will be patient. I do know I can't buy the z10 for a hundred different reasons. Beautiful looking wheel- but I can't have it.

It's funny- my knees are not great. That is the one part of me that I worry if they will hold up to my stupidity in every sport. I think I was the last one with the old straight 205 (or 215) skis on the hill. I finally broke down last year and got the "parabolic" after saying that I'm sure they were not worth it (and wouldn't turn as well, and would crimp my style.) But I did hold out for the last decade while everybody else changed. This may be the same thing where I break down and get one with suspension in the end. My knees are not aging badly, but they are aging.

 

I'm sure that I don't need "top of the line." I doubt I would ever use most to their full potential. So I think I would like the power to pull my heavy ass up a steep incline followed by dragging it the maximum number of KM. That is one of the things that I am really worried about with the V8. I have went on a few trips now, but am always wondering if I go too far, will I make it back? I don't need 200 KM range- but something where I am not worried. (To be fair, I'm sure that a big part of the worry is that I'm new and it does not seem logical that I should even be able to go a few KM on something with a hand full of flashlight batteries.) Durability goes along with both other requirements or else a Z10 would be on it's way from China. It does not need to be prefect- but it can't have a 50% chance of dying the first week with no customer support (I realize that I am exaggerating things a little.)

Anyhow, thanks again for the response. It does confirm for me that I will need to look. And I think I may spend a few more hours looking at options. The newest offerings were not even a rumour when I last compared wheels, the MSX pro was not out, the Nikola was not around (or it was and it just never made it to my radar? Probably because I was nearly hyper focused on the Z10 vs. the MSX.)   Off to do a little more reading.

 

 

 

[Tinkererboi]

55 minutes ago, DWOTR said:

Sorry... I should have been more specific. Around 10 feet max backwards so far (usually less.)

That's already amazing progress! Took me half a year to be able to consistently hit 10 feet. After you break past that point it becomes so much easier. Even more people have ridden for years and never achieved that. Keep going at it and you'll eventually be able to go for unlimited backwards riding! 

 

As a wrinkly sith lord once said: we will be watching your career with great interest

[Tinkererboi]

1 hour ago, DWOTR said:

Gotta ask, what's a bongo board?

Bongo board is a 1.5 - 3 foot board with a roller under it. You "rock" right and left. I then stacked a board that rocked forward and back on top of that to make it harder. I would put the short bongo board under my feet, the long one under my hands and do pushups. I used to love stupid "core" exercises. when I was at a gym with the equipment. The problem is that the new gym does not have it.

No wonder EUC was easy for you, that thing looks way harder than any EUC model out there!

[DWOTR]

On 7/24/2020 at 9:28 AM, mrelwood said:

 

Even if you would tolerate the V8 top speed, the wheel is seriously under powered for your weight up to the point of being a severe safety issue. Despite advancing incredibly fast, as a beginner you don’t yet have much of a feel to whether the wheel can keep you upright in each situation that you face. Then there are the darn potholes and other surprises that require a large power headroom, which your wheel simply doesn’t have for you.

 

Well... This is true. Perhaps we should have started a pool to see how long it would be until I overtaxed the wheel? I finally bought wrist guards today. But I decided that given my "weight" issue, I would leave the wheel set a little slower. But suddenly I was a little more aggressive over bumps and corners. And I decided to take a hill.

 

I ran equipment for a lot of years. I guess I knew that it was over a 4:1 slope. So I argued with myself that I would go across and up the hill. About 1/3 of the way up I realized that while I was leaning forward, the machine was no longer keeping up. I don't know if it just "let" me fall forward or if it cut out. Either way, I hit the ground, and the wheel went bouncing down the hill for 70 - 100 feet. It would hit the tire, bounce, hit the top of the shell, roll, then get to the tire again. If it fell on its side, it may have been better...

 

Either way, when I recovered it, the wheel no longer powered on. I'm sitting in my chair staring at a blown fuse. I kind of assume that my heavy ass overtaxed the wheel and it blew the fuse despite having a fairly high charge. I'll probably solder a new one in tomorrow and hope that is all that it is.

 

So, now the search for a "bigger" wheel is officially on. My twin nieces are 12 and they each have around 3 hours on the wheel. In that short time, they managed to ride for around 100 feet each with no support. This may be a Christmas present- or it may be a "learner wheel" for people who want to try.

 

I'm pretty certain that I knew that it would likely cut out and that I would hit the dirt. But blowing a fuse in the process has me a little concerned. I was thinking I would use it because it is light and there would be times I would just want something to boot around the neighbourhood. But I'm having second thoughts (and believing you when you say my weight and the wheel may be a safety issue.)

 

I have no regrets. The wheel proved to me that I enjoy it. The wheel helped me learn. I knew it was not going to be my "final" wheel- and I can't really blame it for my asking it to perform in a way that it is not meant to. I also don't think this would have happened if I did not buy some safety gear. The final conclusion is that safety gear is evil.*

 

*Yes, that is a joke.

Edited August 3, 2020 by DWOTR

[mrelwood]

On 8/3/2020 at 6:54 AM, DWOTR said:

I'm sitting in my chair staring at a blown fuse

When any EUC is overtaxed, especially if the tire can’t rotate anymore, the currents get very high as the wheel desperately tries to give all battery power to the motor. The risk of blowing the mosfets or motor cables is big. The fuse blowing saved you from having to buy and replace a new control board, possibly also the motor. That’s why overtaxing a GW would’ve been quite a bit more expensive...