KS18L pedal settings

[HuskerDawg]

Can someone help me understand the pedal settings or "ride mode" on the KS18L? I couldn't get the Kingsong App so I am using the darkness bot. 

On that app its 0, 1, or 2 and states that 0 is "hard"? How do these setting effect the controls? 

I rode on pavement for the first time today, rode about 4 miles according to the app. Not sure how accurate that is. I did notice my calves tightened up big time. It seemed like I 

had to practically be on my toes. I did re calibrate after the ride to level the pedals, they were forward some and maybe that was the cause. 

Any insight and recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks again and stay safe and healthy. 

[mrelwood]

The ride modes, ”hard”, ”medium” and ”soft” select the wheel’s response to acceleration and braking. In soft mode the wheel lets the pedals tilt a bit according to your input, while on hard mode the pedals stay horizontal.

Aggressive riders often prefer hard riding mode, since it reacts faster. It is also more stable when going over roots, curbs and other obstacles.

Soft or medium mode can be more relaxing to ride, as the wheel follows your motions. It can also be easier on the feet and ankles. Softer modes also get slightly better range, but the difference is rarely worth choosing the riding mode on.

Which riding mode you use is 100% up to personal taste, and all of the above is just to help you understand the practical differences. If you don’t feel the difference or can’t say which you prefer, I’d start with ”medium” and try the others again after a few hundred miles to see if you’d like another mode better.

Edited March 22, 2020 by mrelwood

[HuskerDawg]

Good advice mrelwood. I'll try the different settings. I know I have to get to a comfortable calibration angle first. It also helps now that I can ride some distance. 

The words make a lot of sense now, Hard, Medium, Soft. It sounds like its basically the input span. Higher degree of angle tilt to get the same motor output when compared to the lower mode setting. 

 

[mrelwood]

 

11 hours ago, HuskerDawg said:

I know I have to get to a comfortable calibration angle first.

Only if you haven’t upgraded to fw 2.0. KS has themselves said that the calibration can no longer be used for personal preferences, it must be calibrated perfectly horizontal. Otherwise it will rock pretty wildly when turning, as one member witnessed. A one degree tilt might still work, but iirc 3 degrees was already too much.

11 hours ago, HuskerDawg said:

The words make a lot of sense now, Hard, Medium, Soft. It sounds like its basically the input span. Higher degree of angle tilt to get the same motor output when compared to the lower mode setting. 

Exactly! I often say how it gives the feeling of standing on a fluffy bed, yoga matt, or on a wooden plank.

[.....]

On 3/22/2020 at 5:04 PM, HuskerDawg said:

The words make a lot of sense now, Hard, Medium, Soft. It sounds like its basically the input span. Higher degree of angle tilt to get the same motor output when compared to the lower mode setting. 

 

Lower NUMBER of mode, but HARDER setting? Darkness bot numbers seemed backwards to me, wasnt 'hard=0  and soft=3'?    Firmware 2.0 is the BEST, but do heed elwood about the LEVEL calibration. Gone is the ability to calibrate it offset for rider preference. Personally, i think level being level is a no brainer. The wheels are designed to run both directions evenly, I wouldnt want to mess that up. Hell, I ride mine running backwards for miles sometimes, before I realize the 'nuts' are on the front... (18L mud flap is better, it looks like nuts AND doesnt crease or catch on things ). I use hard mode. Does having to use MORE lean for same power actually equate to easier on the joints? I would think that tire pressure would do more. Moving the ankles MORE to do the same, seems worse on old hips/knees/ankles, to me.

Edited April 2, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[HuskerDawg]

I tried hard mode and the wheel got really squirrelly. I went back to soft. I'll try it again once I get more practice in. I believe its probably something like 0-15 degrees of tilt equals 0-100% speed when in soft mode, and perhaps something like 0-5 degrees (or less) of tilt equals 0-100% speed in hard mode.

Its an experimental period for me. I can barely look around while riding yet. I am working on making "anti crash" maneuvers. Steering practice I'll call it. I want to be able to ride up the highway a few miles but dont want to cause horns to blow and fingers to fly, let alone something really serious, like a beer can chucked my way.

When I first got my wheel it took me a bit to figure out which way was supposed to be forward. At first I thought "Aren't the nuts supposed to be in front". Then I realized it was a mud flap. 

My feet are quickly getting used to riding. I also changed my foot position, letting more of my foot hang over the front of the pedal. It kind of makes sense too to me. If I align my ankle bone with the center of the pedal that puts my leg directly in line with the centerline of the wheel which then positions my foot more forward. Seems to be less stressful. 

 

 

[.....]

Feet forward makes sense, as we spend MORE of our time going forwards and we can get MORE leverage backwards by sitting position, than  we can safely lean forwards.  I woudlnt dare try to share the road on an mten, as 15mph is so slow it would get me run over or piss off everyone...me included. I noticed the direction of wheel on the 18, per the tire tread. I got mine with its nuts screwed on the wrong side. I THOUGHT it was the tire mounted backwards, but the power button was wrong too. It was a simple matter of 2 screws and a lot of loctite to correct the oversight. A tire rolling backwards, sheds water much worse, and im also OCD. "beer chucked my way"  i think i said the exact same thing on my ride video as I passed a motorcycle... Must be a common worry for us backwoods southern folks. I found hard mode to be great on the 18l. I also put the mten in 'hard' as it dips horribly forwards when in dirt or very rough terrain. Whatever works for you is the best way.

[HuskerDawg]

Alright alright, so should the power button be in the front or the back? 

[.....]

check direction of tire tread. My power is in the back. This also keeps the light sensor from turning off my lights when being followed by a car. However, my light does go out for a moment with oncoming headlights. I dont know which direction it is supposed to be, so i made it follow the tire rotation. Moving a flap seemed much easier than removing a tire. Its likely that they may have mounted tires either way, as QC isnt REALLY high on their list of worry.

Edited April 3, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[HuskerDawg]

Yup- Tire tread in the direction of the nuts. Reading tire tread is a whole separate topic.  Power button on opposite end. So my nuts are on backwards too. I'll have to switch that around. Also there is a directional arrow on the side wall as well. Wonder if I'll notice any difference in the ride. Hmmm.........

Not the quality control I would expect from the Covid pioneers. 

[.....]

Theres an arrow on my sidewall too, it should point to the back when on the bottom. Dont fret by try 20 theyll address that pesky low mortality rate. Probably no difference in ride, only its ability to shed water at speed. If you dont go fast thru water, i'd  imagine its more an ocd thing that not. Ive never hydroplaned on my euc, not sure its even possible, but im ocd anyhow. I was in the tire bizz for a decade, so Im trained to worry. lol

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[bigwave]

42 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

My power is in the back

On my KS18XL,the power button (on/off) is in the front with the USB charge ports. The Charger ports are in the back. The tire arrow shows the correct rotation of the wheel(clockwise) .

[HuskerDawg]

Thats right, arrow towards the back at the bottom, wheel rotation direction which indicates, sure enough, me nuts iz backwoods er backwards. LOL

Doesn't look like there are nuts on the back of the two screws for flap but rather sheet metal screws. I"ll just have to insure I put them in straight and tight the first time. Blue tite probably not a bad idea. 

[.....]

LOTSA loctite   There should be dimples to assist you put them in correctly. I tightened mine to the point the screws dig into me nuts. With that and loctite, they havent lossened yet.  Big Wave  I think they just randomly install the tire. Your musta been installed the OTHER way from ours. My charge ports on opposite the side of power button. Charge in front, on/off in back.  Possibly a change or just more random QC qwerks.  Level calibration makes it fairly moot. Hell, my tire could be backwards altogether, but swapping that rubber flap is hella easier to me, than swapping tire direction. I dont want to know for SURE which way, as i'm ocd and dont want to have to 'fix' it. I kinda assume that the sensor on front makes more sense, as on back, my headlight would be off with a car behind me. Of course, with a car behind me, maybe they figure i dont need a light at all.  With sensor on front, my light does go out as cars pass, kinda freaky first few times it happens. Idk, just petty details, probably doesnt really matter much either way.

Edited April 3, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[bigwave]

2 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

My charge ports on opposite the side of power button

Thats correct. My power button faces forward direction and the charge port is at the rear. The USB Charge ports are underneath the power button in the front

[.....]

they mounted your tire opposite from our is all. now THATS great qc for ya! Seriously tho, if anyone is deciding to make things, its a good idea to try and make it the same. Tho it  may not matter, it just raises doubt. I didnt see any other QC issues other than pedal hinge specs. In a perfect world, my ocd would have nothing to feed on. Fwiw, the 2.0 FW delays the light from cutting out so quickly via sensor. This did help with passing car lights turning it off, tho it still does sometimes. I wouldnt think this fw change would help with cars behind you and a rear facing sensor. MAYBE they intended it to face forward and the FW change was to assist in useability? Just to clarify..  I LOVE MY 18L, and its QC was much better than most of my toys. Tbh, i open up everything when i get it new and rebuild it, and very few things avoid me bitching about something...

Edited April 4, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[HuskerDawg]

Ok I changed my flap to the other side. Rode about 16 miles today. Was a good day. Got back to the garage and was looking through the Darkness app and turned the torch on

and guess what? The light under the power button came on LOL. So now I looked closer into the orientation. I took note of the pedals, they say Kingsong in the orientation that puts the power switch in the front. The torch button in the app turned this light on as well. So I switched the flap back to original position.

I am not sure how to read the tread to tell for certain which damn way the wheel is designed to rotate. Regardless of the tire standard, they assembled this with 2 out 4 of the orientation indicators opposite the other 2. The tire arrow (if going by the standard) and the manual shows that the power button is above the flap. The Kingsong words on the pedals and the torch button turns on the light under the power switch which indicates the opposite orientation. Go figure!!!!

I am going to keep it how it was shipped even though the wheel may be mounted incorrectly and the manual shows the front being opposite of how it was shipped. Unless I can make the other headlight come on some how. I can swap the pedals. I'm still not certain of the tire either. Talk about OCD!!!!!!!

[.....]

tire arrow faces back when at bottom, its the same for EVERY tire on the road that has directional arrow. You can also read the tread. The reason for the arrow is that when going wrong way, A tire doesnt shed water and it compresses it instead, increasing chances of hydroplane. I dont know how applicable this is for simple 30mph euc, but forwards IS forwards. The lights are the same on both sides. More importantly, may be how the sensor gets used. Behind you, it will pick up traffic following you. Its a minor detail either way.

You have a valid point about darknessbot (and eucw) making the torch come on the 'back' when the sensor is on the front. This obviously throws a wrench in everything. If we listen to the way the light is facing (i never used the torch function in an app until you mentioned it), then the tire is backwards. If we listen to the tire, then the apps are backwards. I guess you get to just decide whcih you prefer, knowing your tire rolls the right direction, or knowing your light controlled by the app is.  I dont know what to tell you, as I never noticed the light thing, since mine auto and ive never needed to activitate it via app. My suggest is to flip a coin or listen to whatever ocd reasoning you come up with

As for pedals, i have no idea what swapping those would do, as mine are exact copies of each other and bidirectional.

Edited April 5, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[HuskerDawg]

If you look closely at the pedals the words Kingsong are on them and mine are oriented to where the power button is on the front. Meaning the words are right side up if reading them as if you were riding, otherwise the words are upside down. You are right, the pedals function identically oriented either way, I was just going by the words. 

I always thought the arrow meant thats the direction the tire is to spin, regardless where in the rotation the arrow is. However, maybe in their wisdom they didn't go by the standard, as we know it, and merely put it on their to mean "go this way" when the arrow is where you can see it, on the bottom. If I knew how to read tread that would clear it up for me but I have no idea, by looking at just the tread, which way is correct. 

It doesn't matter to me providing the schrader valve wont impede rotation and it wont either way. I do want my "torch" to come on and point forward though. 

[.....]

Hmm, I have the bigger pedals, mine would read with Kingsong upright (when folded), regardless. It would be impossible to be any differently. I never thought to notice until you mentioned it. If you use the torch function and you want it to the 'front' (understandably), then its pretty much settled. As for tire direction.   To read tread, typically you look at it as you roll forward. The patters typically start at the center and work outwards. If the pattern is open as it runs the ground, channeling towards the center, this is backwards. Imagine it as if YOU were seeing water and would the direction of the tire push the water OUT from center, or does it look like it would gather towards the center? Most tires are cut so they can be used both ways. Tires with arrows on them, were deesigned to run in a manner that sheds water to the outsides of the tire, rahter than gathering it in to cause hydroplane. This picture shows a directional tire as it would, rolling towards you. Of course, hydroplaning doesnt happen at low speeds and it may be totally negligible on an euc. Some people like to run tires backwards for improved dirt traction. Of course then theres the argument that it increases dirt traction but only until it clogs with dirt. Meh, run it how you want man, it seems the light facing one way and the tire another means there is no proper answer.Fwiw, I too searched for pictures and noticed discrepancies, before I just swapped it. Too many years in the tire bizz, I couldnt ignore it if i tried, even if I KNOW its inconsequential.

Edited April 6, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[HuskerDawg]

Where did you get the BIG pedals?

[.....]

e-wheels has them. You may also keep them in mind when you inevitably break the 18L trolley. https://www.ewheels.com/product/new-king-song-10-25cm-larger-pedal/

I think my trolley upgrade to the Xl and my pedals came from Jason at e-wheels both. I got my mten from E-wheels and it arrived quickly and in good shape.

[HuskerDawg]

Oh boy I'll break my trolley? You already did? or you upgraded before that happened? Hard to change? 

[.....]

Bought mine with 5 miles on it, one scratch and a trolley that wouldnt lock on one side. Im ocd, so i combed thru it, bought pedals and a trolley and a cover.. If your trolley works, just use it. Dont be gentle, just use it. If it breaks, the upgrade isnt a bad install. I think loc-tite or some goop for the 'sensors' is only thing youll need. From what i hear, the trolley (older) is a little under rated for the bigger 18 wheels. The newer trolley addresses it, tho you still want to be mindful. The trolley isnt icing on the cake, its a BIG layer of enjoyment. DO NOT lift it with the trolley extended!! Lock it down to lift. Raise it up to roll.

Edited April 7, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[GothamMike]

Every nut in my trolley handle 18L  came loose, also the bolts at the base of the trolley handle. loctite fixed that.