Ninebot ES2: Error 18 and Electric brake / motor issue

[eliothis]

Hello !

I have the Ninebot ES2, with additional battery. It's been running fine for about 200km now, i just started running into issues :

- The first one is the infamous "electric brake kicks in when the headlight is on", which i reckon can be fixed quite easily.

- The second one is weirder. When i get close to the 30km/h max speed, the engine start to act up. It stop accelerating, seems like it's really struggling, and then it just stops. I have to turn the scooter off, wait for a couple minutes, turn it back on. And most importantly, i have to stay below ˜22km/h, otherwise i get the issue again.

- Now, the scooter won't start anymore. It beeps, and gives out error 18 on the screen  

Is there a solution ? I'm confortable soldering / replacing parts, i just don't know which one ...  

 

Thanks a lot ! 

[ionbrain]

Error is 18 is that wire below the controller and battery are having issues and you need to take apart the unit and look at those wires, check for wear and tear. you might have a short on one of the 3 main wires, the yellow, Blue, Brown. (could be different colors, depending on what manufacture date is )

as for the rest, the symptoms tend to point to the controller board and could be the main fuse is failing (common problem) . This fix is not for casual people, you will need to remove this item and then resolder a replacement . This 'B' item is a high-speed 125 mA self-resetting fuse.  This degrades over time and needs to be replaced.

when you turn the light on it causes more power draw and causes this to constantly set and reset, slower speed and lockups on getting to hot

You could just build a solder bridge across the points, but this will increase your chances of a complete controller board burn-out. Its has been done and it will work but you really should order the replacement fuse and solder that. You will need long pointed tweezers to get this one off the board.

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by ionbrain
additional description

[TomekG]

Hello.

Where to buy this fast acting fuses ? Or maybe try to replace it with a bit higher acting current ~150-200mA ? 

Regards,

Tomek

[Captainkirky]

I have the same issues, but it’s ridiculous to change a fuse every 150 km. I have the additional battery installed and obviously then it fails much earlier.

my scooter doesn’t even have a failure code, it’s just not powerful at all anymore and the motor doesn’t keep a constant speed when the wheel is free spinning.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Captainkirky

[ionbrain]

you will have to look for SMD (surface mounted) fuse with the high-speed 125 mA self-resetting fuse online or at your electronics store and yes you can go higher, after all some people just build a soldier bridge and keep riding until the whole board is burnt. ( This does depend on the temperature of how hot you let the unit get)

but its also was installed so there would be a person needed to repair and replace the unit. (Product security or always needing new parts)

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by ionbrain

[TomekG]

Hello. 

Thank You, but if somebody here try to replace this fuse with other type (less prone to degeneration - different manufacturer or current) I'm interesting in result of this. 

Yes we know that bridge of it (0ohm, no fuse) still works, so maybe replacing this fuse with one with a bit higher current = less often acting, not damage the controller and simultaneously extends degradation of this element (if this is direct reason of malfunctioning of the controller).

And maybe somebody share source of those elements - I try to found any, but I''m not sure about type:

https://www.littelfuse.com/products/resettable-ptcs/surface-mount.aspx

No identical elements on aliexpress or ebay ... or my bad searching.

Regards, and thank you for information (twice ) 

/Tomek

 

[ionbrain]

Well I replace them with this if I have the time, otherwise it's a soldier bridge. Hope this helps

 

The Chip Specs are 0.063W 0603 0 Ohm, 5%, Chip Resistor (SMD)

PartNumber: RC0603JR-070RL

Installation smd 0603

Nominal resistance 0

unit of measurement om

Accuracy,% five

Power rating, W 0.063

Working voltage, V 50

Operating temperature, C -55 ... 155

Body length L, mm 1.6

Width (diameter) of the housing W (D), mm 0.8

 

 

[Captainkirky]

Hello,

So I bridged the resistor, but then I noticed that there were blown up circuits on the back side of the board. I tried to fix those with solder but when I wanted to connect the battery I had a massive spark so obviously something is shorted. Maybe a FET is shorted? I'm not a specialist.

Now I can order a new control board and have to replace the battery connector.

Does anybody know where to get the genuine board? Does it work plug n play?

Thanks

[ionbrain]

Well the soder should only cover thee FUSE and the next resistor in a single line

if you got a connection on the Brown resistors then yes it would blow the whole circuit since your crossing the power supply lines

and forcing the full voltage around your bridge ( the aluminum back panel ).

At this point you could order from Amazon so you have the ability to get a refund if the unit is not a genuine.

When you get the part you will get errors because the EEROM is not in sync with the BMS EEROM or the Dashboard EEROM

you will need to be quick on the bluetooth activation to get the update firmware option from your phone to fix those issues and you will be good to go.

I do recommend taking your scooter completely apart and getting it to work in pieces on the floor before reassembling it and trying to have a go at it.

This is because you will have to disconnect the Controller from the battery a few times to clear out cache values and you will also need to set phone to Airport mode to clear out its cached values and try the whole process again and again until it syncs all the EEROMS

Segway has just release a 2019 update to the firmware which makes the scooter limit the speed to 20 K as a default now.

[LA185]

Hi All,

i just encountered an error 18 issue and identified a burned out component on the control board as per picture. May i ask if someone knows what this component used to be? Thanks a lot in advance. 

[ionbrain]

Well that particular one is a BLACK resistor without a label

100 ohm should be the value

But with this being blown, it's clearly showing there is a short on the board and there most likely more damage to other components, I recommend you just buy the new control board because this rabbit hole of failures will keep you digging and replacing other components.

 

[Henrique Poeira Manso]

Hello everyone!
Sorry if I'm going to write nonsense, but I do not want to be ignorant.
I see that there are 4 wires (Red, Green, Yellow and Black) that connect the bottom circuit (which is next to the battery), to the top where the display is. I assume that Red and Black are 5V power which should be constant, right? The rest, so Green and Yellow will be D- and D +, right? And the problem is due to the fickle 5V power supply, right?
So I ask, could it be that the power supply (with the Red and Black wires) could be made by a stable circuit of a batery eliminator circuit (BEC)?
Thank you in advance for clarification.
Henrique Manso

[ionbrain]

IMG_5811.HEIC

Red, Green, Yellow, and Black?

I don't see this combination near the battery, I see Yellow, White, Red, Black, in a small 4 slot connector. This connection is connected to the Battery and is the USB interface to the BMC (Battery Manage Chip) located there.

if you believe you are having Battery problems, like a dead cell, you can get this app for android based phone and check the batteries

http://mimod.ru/download/NINEBattery.apk

You can't stop using the BMC since it's communicating with the circuit on the Controller board.

Yes Blk and Red is 5V (4.8+/-) 

IMG_1046.HEIC

[Henrique Poeira Manso]

IONBRAIN thank you for responding. I saw that I did not make myself understood, perhaps because it is difficult to make a correct and linear translation to what is intended to communicate in a different language to the native / origin. So I thank you for forgetting what I wrote, and now see what I am going to write, and please clarify me.

So, please see the photo Ninebot resitor.png that attachment (which I use from the ones you published, and that I apologize for using them), and see the color of the wires I mentioned, the 4 wires Red, Green, Yellow and Black, am I right or wrong?

Now near the plug of these wires is the SMD Resistor (the SMD B, which I suppose is a ThermoResistor), which is giving problems, right (see the same photo as the attachment)?

So I ask:
1º) What is the function of this Resistor?
2º) Where is this Resistor connected (to Red or Green wire)?
After answering these two questions, I will make others to complete my request for clarification. I think it will be easier to make myself understood.

Thank you in advance for clarification, and excuse my English (I wrote with google translator help).
Henrique Manso

[ionbrain]

The 'B' chip is a quick Thermal fuse. It is here to try and prevent the system from getting too hot for extended uses or heavy loads.
It will toggle on and off very quicky, and this will cause poor performance when the light is on. Not enough current can flow to the motor, and it is not able to get enough electricity   

If you replace this with just soldier or you buy a new 'B' thermal fuse.

It is connected to Red wire and controls the flow of electricity to the motor bridge and lights.

[Henrique Poeira Manso]

IONBRAIN  once again my thanks for your explanatory reply.

Now, continuing with the subject .....
But if we change the 'B' thermal fuse, by a direct connection (shunt), or by Resistor 0603 0R, will not cause problems in other components?
If the 'B' thermal fuse is damaged, where to find the substitute?
I also do not understand how the control of the flow of electricity to the motor bridge and lights, by a feeding wire the Red, should not be made by the information wire (D + - the Yellow)?

 

To finalize for now, please clarify me.
From the reports I've read, most of the problems, although with different symptoms, will direct everyone to the same component, the Fuse B. So, I ask, what should be done, so that there are no problems with the fuse B ? or, will the driving behavior change?

Thank you in advance for clarification, and best regards.
Henrique Manso

[ionbrain]

Well shunting the 'B' fuse is best option so far,

I have replaced the 'B' fuse with another higher rater 'B' fuse, only to have it fail again.

The controller board is flawed. Shunting works for a long time until the whole control must be replaced

They cut corners and this is why the 'B' fuse is there in the first place. 

They failed to build the circuit with proper tolerances and so they decide to add a quick 'B' fuse to solve the issue 

I usually just Shunt the system and the next time it will be replacing the controller board. The rider usually only rides 10 Km so it really hit maxium threshold failure unless it's a Hot day, or rider is more then the 100kg specification.

 

[Henrique Poeira Manso]

IONBRAIN  once again my thanks for your explanatory reply.

So the best solution will be to replace the complete controller, but ....... so, we'll have to be careful in driving to not get back to term problems, right?
And to avoid even problems it is best to follow some of their recommendations, such as:
- Do not accelerate downhill; Do not exceed 100kgs of driver weight; Do not use the maximum speed for long (25 ~ 30kms / h); Do not let the inside of the Ninebot exceed the temperature of 30º Celsius; and..............
So in short we have to have these all taken care of until the manufacturer solves it with a new redesigned board, right?
Until then, we have to be careful and when it malfunctions, first shunt, and then replace controller boards.

Yet there is something else:
IONBRAIN when you wrote:
"They cut corners and this is why the 'B' fuse is there in the first place."
What does it means? Sorry I did not realize the meaning, could you explain it better?

To conclude this continuation of the request for help / clarification:
I have already done more than 100 kms, in accentuated climbs, so in effort, I sometimes used speed of 25 ~ 30 kms, and the weight is 94kgs (including clothing and others), I do not use the front LED (I deactivated), and nothing has happened yet, so I have not had any problems yet. But if it does, so burn the fuse B, I ask what it suggests I do (weld another B, or weld 0603 0R, or shunt)?

Thank you in advance for clarification, and best regards.
Henrique Manso

 

Edited April 6, 2019 by Henrique Poeira Manso

[Slepzs]

Hello Ionbrain

I had the same error(18) before my scooter won't even start anymore. So my question is. Is it still possible that it's the B fuse. I've looked at the control board, and couldn't find any burned out components, which makes it harder to identity the problem. If i disconnect the dashboard from the scooter and plugin the charger. The back lights on the scooter start blinking.

Would really appreciate help!

Edited April 10, 2019 by Slepzs

[peheje]

Awesome details in this thread.
I have an Ninebot ES2 with extra battery as well.

I had the headlights/break error after about 1100 KM. I tried to just shunt the component, but the smoke escaped :D!
Must have shorted something, my soldering tools and skill are weak.

On Aliexpress I found a completely new logic board, installed it, updated firmware and I was up and running. Annoying as the replacement board was not cheap.

Then I installed a bicycle headlight on the scooter, with own batteries - I now never use the internal lights in hope that this will prolong the circuit lifetime, is this plausable?

I think services like VOI and the like will force Ninebot to create an updated logic board, have anyone heard of updated logic boards?

[ionbrain]

On 4/6/2019 at 3:04 PM, Henrique Poeira Manso said:

IONBRAIN  once again my thanks for your explanatory reply.

So the best solution will be to replace the complete controller, but ....... so, we'll have to be careful in driving to not get back to term problems, right?
And to avoid even problems it is best to follow some of their recommendations, such as:
- Do not accelerate downhill; Do not exceed 100kgs of driver weight; Do not use the maximum speed for long (25 ~ 30kms / h); Do not let the inside of the Ninebot exceed the temperature of 30º Celsius; and..............
So in short we have to have these all taken care of until the manufacturer solves it with a new redesigned board, right?
Until then, we have to be careful and when it malfunctions, first shunt, and then replace controller boards.

Yet there is something else:
IONBRAIN when you wrote:
"They cut corners and this is why the 'B' fuse is there in the first place."
What does it means? Sorry I did not realize the meaning, could you explain it better?

To conclude this continuation of the request for help / clarification:
I have already done more than 100 kms, in accentuated climbs, so in effort, I sometimes used speed of 25 ~ 30 kms, and the weight is 94kgs (including clothing and others), I do not use the front LED (I deactivated), and nothing has happened yet, so I have not had any problems yet. But if it does, so burn the fuse B, I ask what it suggests I do (weld another B, or weld 0603 0R, or shunt)?

Thank you in advance for clarification, and best regards.
Henrique Manso

 

They cut corners means they use the cheapest part to fix a problem with the design. the :"B" is in there because they know the unit gets too hot and fails the whole board

If you stay within the weight limit then you should be fine, 100-120kg is fine for short runs of 5 to 10 miles in one constant run

otherwise 120kg in short runs of 2 miles, then cooldown, then 2 more miles , then cooldown 

the stress of the amount of electrical current going through the thin wires is what makes the unit need the"B" fast fuse switch to try and keep the current flow low and thus keep the unit cool and not overheat.

if the "B" does break, then just Shunt it, don't bother replacing it because the way you are using the scooter is beyond the normal specifications and your just going to have to replace the "B" again and again

 

[ionbrain]

On 4/9/2019 at 9:58 PM, Slepzs said:

Hello Ionbrain

I had the same error(18) before my scooter won't even start anymore. So my question is. Is it still possible that it's the B fuse. I've looked at the control board, and couldn't find any burned out components, which makes it harder to identity the problem. If i disconnect the dashboard from the scooter and plugin the charger. The back lights on the scooter start blinking.

Would really appreciate help!

if the "B" is burnt out it will not show any signs

you should just shunt it , after fully disconnection of battery 

and then reconnect battery and look for the beep of the dashboard.

 

[ionbrain]

On 4/28/2019 at 11:31 PM, peheje said:

Awesome details in this thread.
I have an Ninebot ES2 with extra battery as well.

I had the headlights/break error after about 1100 KM. I tried to just shunt the component, but the smoke escaped :D!
Must have shorted something, my soldering tools and skill are weak.

On Aliexpress I found a completely new logic board, installed it, updated firmware and I was up and running. Annoying as the replacement board was not cheap.

Then I installed a bicycle headlight on the scooter, with own batteries - I now never use the internal lights in hope that this will prolong the circuit lifetime, is this plausable?

I think services like VOI and the like will force Ninebot to create an updated logic board, have anyone heard of updated logic boards?

they are alway making some changes but they will not offer you a update to the control board since the Dashboard would also have to be updated because of the firmware they are using 

[Gorodeckij Dimitrij]

ionbrain, could you please advise where to buy mosfets for es2? I found this  but its says 1CKD1 then mine is 1CKJ1 not sure if they fit? in my case first 3 in row shows 1 then I check them, others showing 0.720-0.760 - so expecting that replacement will help me to ride again? 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Gorodeckij Dimitrij

[mrelwood]

Electronic components can be purchased online for example from Mouser, Digikey and Farnell. Sometimes the minimum order amount or shipping/handling fees are high enough to make even the overpriced Ebay sellers a viable alternative for just a few components.

Edited May 10, 2019 by mrelwood