Duf damn near bought the farm…

[OldFartRides]

Fast flat sent him off the shoulder into traffic. Walked away.  It’s just nuts riding these on highways ( including shoulders).

 

Edited September 29 by OldFartRides

[alcatraz]

Members only video

[OldFartRides]

Will repost if vid becomes public. Sorry.

[Funky]

49 minutes ago, OldFartRides said:

Will repost if vid becomes public. Sorry.

Do it now - it's public. At least on his channel..

Reason one i will never ride with cars.. I like perfectly fine empty sidewalks the best.

Good thing that truck stopped in time. Otherwise if driver didn't pay attention, etc.. Outcome would have been way gruesome.

The moment he falls/turns into trafic - you can hear how hes riding the wheel with empty tire.

Edited September 29 by Funky

[techyiam]

Note to myself, buy only quality inner tubes.

Duf's video was an eye opener. 

I have come across cheap inner tubes before and didn't think the valve stem could sheared off like that, even when the wheel was lightly used. 

[Funky]

30 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Note to myself, buy only quality inner tubes.

Duf's video was an eye opener. 

I have come across cheap inner tubes before and didn't think the valve stem could sheared off like that, even when the wheel was lightly used. 

Have happened to me two times.. And i ride very little.. Doh i didn't fall. Wheel simply started to make a weird noise, so i stopped and checked what's going on - flat tire.

I think tire simply slipped on rim while acceleration or braking to hard. Resulting in sheared off stem. (Can see it happening at 280lbs..) After second time it happened, i took sandpaper and "roughened" up the tire bead/rim bead, so it isn't that smooth and tire doesn't slide. Now tire doesn't slip anymore.

Before i used sandpaper you could tell that tire slipped, because it was so smooth and tire bead had that glossy look. Yes rubber was shinny as glass... Meaning tire was moving up/down while riding, and it only took one harder brake/acceleration to slip. Sanding the bead did the trick.

Edited September 29 by Funky

[rcgldr]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

I think tire simply slipped on rim while acceleration or braking too hard.

Is there any way to know if it was a valve stem failure after a crash? That should be rare. I don't recall the old tubed motorcycle tires every slipping during hard acceleration or braking. I also have an 18XL, but the new version 2 with spiked pedals and power pad protrusions on the upper pads. I don't know if it's using a different tire or rim than the older 18XLs. My braking is not that great. I weigh about 200 lbs with gear, and there's a slight decline where I finish my ride, and according to EUC World, my best peak braking so far is about 1/2 g, 10.5 mph per second. I don't want to stress the motor, so I don't brake hard that often. I don't accelerate hard, 5 or 6 mph per second at slower speeds (less than 1/3 g).

[Funky]

1 hour ago, rcgldr said:

Is there any way to know if it was a valve stem failure after a crash? That should be rare. I don't recall the old tubed motorcycle tires every slipping during hard acceleration or braking. I also have an 18XL, but the new version 2 with spiked pedals and power pad protrusions on the upper pads. I don't know if it's using a different tire or rim than the older 18XLs. My braking is not that great. I weigh about 200 lbs with gear, and there's a slight decline where I finish my ride, and according to EUC World, my best peak braking so far is about 1/2 g, 10.5 mph per second. I don't want to stress the motor, so I don't brake hard that often. I don't accelerate hard, 5 or 6 mph per second at slower speeds (less than 1/3 g).

Well one time my valve stem where pulled inside the rim - as it slipped. And second time it wasn't pulled in, but in both cases tear/cut was right next to valve stem - the part where it connect to tube.

I got K66 M/C tubeless tire installed. Which i use with tube. The thick sidewalls doesn't help, as when tire is mounted it sandwiched the stem right between tire beads.. I imagine tube doesn't completely fill in the gap - valve moves around. Each rotation tire suppresses, making it move, at some point tearing the stem.

Also i was riding around 30psi, when it happened.

Now i'm riding around 35-40psi. Harder tire - less tire suppression each rotation - less valve stem movement. So far so good.

 

 

We need better tubes on EUC's.  Have you checked how weak/thin is the rubber where valve stem is connected to tube... I even glued patch over my new tube stem, before installing it inside the tire - that also may have helped. (Yup i made the part around stem thicker, more robust by gluing a patch of old tube over new ones stem.) First time it happened - i was okay.. Faulty tube maybe.. Seconding time it happened 200km latter - i took extra steps to prevent it from happening again..

Edited September 29 by Funky

[bpong]

im just relieved that nothing disastrous happened to the rider....damn lucky man !!!

[OldFartRides]

He’s doing a live stream tonight at 8 PM Eastern standard for any interested .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgmPJvsV9RA

 

[Zuber]

5 hours ago, techyiam said:

Note to myself, buy only quality inner tubes.

Duf's video was an eye opener. 

I have come across cheap inner tubes before and didn't think the valve stem could sheared off like that, even when the wheel was lightly used. 

So scary...thankfully he good!

So the alleged cause was a rapid deflation from a sheared valve stem? Perhaps it was a rapid leak and the valve stem sheared off from the force of the crash? I guess we'll get more answers in the live stream...

Edited September 29 by Zuber

[Maverick]

I just asked Duf if he knew what failed and why.  He doesn't know yet but he will share when he knows more.  He wonders if the rim was too sharp where it engages the valve, the rim's hole cut into the valve and that led to the catastrophic failure.  QUESTION: If a rim is capable of supporting a tubeless tire, but you add a tube anyway, wouldn't that add protection?  Wouldn't a strong bead hold the air even if the tube fails?  I don't understand the engineering.  Thanks.

[WheelGoodTime]

5 hours ago, Maverick said:

I just asked Duf if he knew what failed and why.  He doesn't know yet but he will share when he knows more.  He wonders if the rim was too sharp where it engages the valve, the rim's hole cut into the valve and that led to the catastrophic failure.  QUESTION: If a rim is capable of supporting a tubeless tire, but you add a tube anyway, wouldn't that add protection?  Wouldn't a strong bead hold the air even if the tube fails?  I don't understand the engineering.  Thanks.

Tubeless tires require their own independent valve stem. inner tubes come with a valve stem built-in. I had this exact same crash happen to me with the ET Max about 6 months ago (I still have shoulder pain from it today). The valve stem sheared off and i hit on the ground when I was traveling at 35 mph on the et max. bad day. I recently have found out about 4 others who have had this exact same thing happen - one was an EB wheel, Duf (master v4), a commander Pro, and couple ET Maxes. It  could be chalked up to a bad batch of CST tubes, but other brands use these tubes with no problem, so it MUST be an issue with the rims that BG uses.

I suspect that it happens from the rim's valve stem hole having sharp edges/burrs, which cut into the inner tube. I forwarded the info about my crash and Duf's crash to Wendy @ BG, and they said they'd investigate and take further action. I don't know what kind of action that is, hopefully not just lip service. I'll follow up in a few days or so, and see what (if any) action is being taken, because this is literally a matter of life and death.

For now, I know that the only way to prevent this from happening is to use tubeless tires ONLY if you have a Begode or EB wheel. If you have a tubeless tire - but have a tube in it - remove the tube, pop in a tubeless valve stem, and reinflate. Don't let what could have killed me and Duf happen to you - ride tubeless on Begode and EB wheels! At least until we know more, this is the only 100% guaranteed way to prevent the tube valve from shearing off: by not having a tube valve at all.

Edited September 30 by WheelGoodTime

[Funky]

1 hour ago, WheelGoodTime said:

Tubeless tires require their own independent valve stem. inner tubes come with a valve stem built-in. I had this exact same crash happen to me with the ET Max about 6 months ago (I still have shoulder pain from it today). The valve stem sheared off and i hit on the ground when I was traveling at 35 mph on teh et max. bad day. I recently have found out about 4 others who have had this exact same thing happen - one was an EB wheel, Duf, a commander Pro, and multiple ET Maxes. It  could be chalked up to a bad batch of CST tires, but other brands use these tubes with no problem, so it MUST be an issue with the rims that BG uses.

I suspect that it happens from the rim's valve stem hole having sharp edges/burrs, which cut into the inner tube. I forwarded the info about my crash and Duf's crash ro Webdy @ BG, and they said they'd investigate and take further action. I don't know what kind of action that is, hopefully not just lip service. I'll follow up in a few days or so, and see what (if any) action is being taken, because this is literally a matter of life and death.

For now, I know that the only way to prevent this from happening is to use tubeless tires ONLY if you have a Begode or EB wheel. If you have a tubeless tire - but have a tube in it - remove the tube, pop in a tubeless valve stem, and reinflate. Don't let what could have killed me and Duf happen to you - ride tubeless! At least until we know more, this is the only 100% guaranteed way to prevent the tube valve from shearing off: by not having a tube valve at all.

Yup the edge on rim hole can be to sharp also.. I sanded edges of my rim down little bit. That also may helped to stop tearing of the valve stem..

Previously it was straight drilled hole. Now it has grove/edge going around hole itself. Where stem can sit more comfy in the rim/hole.

Edited September 30 by Funky

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, WheelGoodTime said:

I recently have found out about 4 others who have had this exact same thing happen - one was an EB wheel, Duf, a commander Pro, and multiple ET Maxes.

You wouldn't happen to know whether all these wheels were using low tire pressures? 

Edited September 30 by techyiam

[WheelGoodTime]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

You wouldn't happen to know whether all these wheels were using low tire pressures? 

For me, I didn't check the tire pressure, but it was very firm. I initially suspected that it was incorrectly inflated from the factory. But, since hearing every other instance that the valve stem has sheared off, all the other BG wheels have had correct PSI.

Edited September 30 by WheelGoodTime

[Rawnei]

Looks like his tire pressure could have been on the low side already, might be a contributing factor.

[Skampster]

Apart from valve stems shearing off, the side of the road especially on highways, are loaded with debris that will puncture your tire. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

9 hours ago, WheelGoodTime said:

I had this exact same crash happen to me with the ET Max about 6 months ago

Your crash seemed much different, it didn't look at all like the stem sheared before you fell. Watching the video, it looked like the wheel started leaning to one side and before you noticed it it was to late causing you to run off the road onto the grass. I think the tire valve shearing happened after the crash. There was no instability before you looked down and ran off the road. I think running these tire pressures super low is the issue as far as valves shearing, if it is tubeless and you run it low. It can easily blow out the bead and deflate even faster. People just have to stop running them super low if you plan on riding in front of cars and trucks. Glad to see the truck was paying attention and stopped in time.

[alcatraz]

Super low pressure is scary. The wheel stops turning so when the rider tries to lean to balance it, the wheel just continues in the same trajectory. Resulting in it toppling over sideways at speed. 

It helps to constantly swerve gently left/right because you'll detect the pressure loss early and hopefully be able to stop in time before it's uncontrollable. It also gives you a chance to pinch the wheel and muscle that thing to balance under you as you're braking.

Even though I don't have a slow air leak, for my commuting wheels I always set a perfect air preassure on the same day each week, and I never skip this task. It makes my commuter wheel extremely predictable. You'll become sensitive at detecting when something is off with constant pressure. A red light will come on early in your head at the slightest deviation.

It also helps to have a favorite brand of inner tubes. I noticed that cst gave me 4000km and a noname brand around 1000km. Easy choice there. I tried sealant and it did nothing to help. Maybe you'll have more luck.

Putting in the same pressure every week, I think will prolong the life of my inner tube. I used to let it come down a lot which was comfy but it would wear our the tube much faster. When you have a consistent pressure that isn't rock bottom you get a good balance of both worlds, comfort - lifespan.

I'm not that concerned with sheared valves or punctures, but with wearing out the tube. I also hate to change tubes so I can't be bothered with the safest approach: replacing every 3000km.

Edited September 30 by alcatraz

[Maverick]

Hi all.  I was rereading the early comments and responses.  I noticed the discussion moved very quickly to a valve shearing off.  While a very important concern, Duf had not shared anything definitive on the tube.  I just wondered how we ventured there in the absence of Duf's input.  Is a valve shearing off a common catastrophic failure?  If so, would it be because the rim hole may have been sharp and cut into it? Or, could it have gotten cut or pulled off as the tire rotated, perhaps hitting the battery box.  Be patient with me, I'm still learning my way.

[DavidB]

2 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

. Glad to see the truck was paying attention and stopped in time.

And it wasn't fully loaded. They can't stop fast when full. I use to worry about Duf with all those cars sliding past his elbow just so he can get a coffee. Can I suggest in future getting a coffee maker and riding trails instead.

[Rawnei]

12 minutes ago, Maverick said:

Hi all.  I was rereading the early comments and responses.  I noticed the discussion moved very quickly to a valve shearing off.  While a very important concern, Duf had not shared anything definitive on the tube.  I just wondered how we ventured there in the absence of Duf's input.  Is a valve shearing off a common catastrophic failure?  If so, would it be because the rim hole may have been sharp and cut into it? Or, could it have gotten cut or pulled off as the tire rotated, perhaps hitting the battery box.  Be patient with me, I'm still learning my way.

He released a clip showing the valve had sheered off.

[WheelGoodTime]

7 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Your crash seemed much different, it didn't look at all like the stem sheared before you fell. Watching the video, it looked like the wheel started leaning to one side and before you noticed it it was to late causing you to run off the road onto the grass. I think the tire valve shearing happened after the crash. There was no instability before you looked down and ran off the road. I think running these tire pressures super low is the issue as far as valves shearing, if it is tubeless and you run it low. It can easily blow out the bead and deflate even faster. People just have to stop running them super low if you plan on riding in front of cars and trucks. Glad to see the truck was paying attention and stopped in time.

I assure you that the valve sharing off is the single exclusive cause for my crash. What the original cause is for it shearing off is, I am not 100% guaranteed, but the crash definitely happened because the valve sheared off. As soon as I looked at the wheel post-crash, the valve stem was spinning freely in the hole, just like on Duf's wheel. What happened to me was that I heard a strange noise and felt something unusual - turns out it was all of the air escaping out of the freshly created hole. If my tire pressure was low, I could have maybe caused the valve to "walk" over to one side, causing it to get ripped off, but there was no instance of the bead blowing out e side. The only hole in the entire tube was where the valve stem used to be.

I feel like this conversation ought to be redirected to discuss why this is happening on so many Begode EUCs, and how it can be avoided. The sad fact is that all of these valve stem shearing-related blowouts are happening only on BG/EB wheels, who use the same rim manufacturer. And who knows how many people this has happened to where didn't make its rounds on the internet?

Edited September 30 by WheelGoodTime

[Rawnei]

21 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

I assure you that the valve sharing off is the single exclusive cause for my crash. What the original cause is for it, I am not 100% guaranteed, but it definitely happened because the valve sheared off. As soon as I looked at the wheel, the valve stem was spinning freely in the hole, just like on Duf's wheel. What happened to me was that I heard a strange noise and felt something unusual - turns out it was all of the air escaping out of the freshly created hole. If my tire pressure was low, I could have maybe caused the valve to "walk" over to one side, causing it to get ripped off, but there was no instance of the bead blowing out e side. The only hole in the entire tube was where the valve stem used to be.

I feel like this conversation ought to be redirected to discuss why this is happening on so many Begode EUCs, and how it can be avoided. The sad fact is that all of these valve stem shearing-related blowouts are happening only on BG/EB wheels, who use the same rim manufacturer. And who knows how many people this has happened to where didn't make its rounds on the internet?

On my master I had a tire jump of the rim (tube was still intact and inflated even with the tire having jumped off and locked the whole wheel), I documented it here somewhere on the forum I believe with photos and all as well as on Facebook, after I shared this story I heard that there were a bunch of similar cases on Begode wheels of various models and various tires (even stock tires from factory).

It's possible that it's something related to the rim not keeping the tire in place, in your case and in Dufs case maybe the tire rotated on the rim bringing the tube with it and sheering the valve in the process? Difficult to say after the fact.