Leaperkim Sherman L 151V 4000wh 20" 102lbs

[tonto_euc]

5 hours ago, Paul g said:

     That’s exactly what probably many, including myself, think would be a necessary safety accessory going forward. The wrist device should deliver haptic feedback to the rider who can’t hear much at high speeds. Where the hell did you came with the shock thing? This isn’t a S&M sex accessory 😹

if there's a 3rd party that comes up with a great haptic feedback wrist band, EUC manufactures can just provide the USB Type-C port for controlling. It can be something that is standardized in the EUC community for the betterment of everyone. No need for each EUC manufacturer to develop their own version. Heck, EUC World and DarknessBot can also make use of it for some customization and such.

As for the shock factor, I was thinking if folks don't care to listen to the warning with a buzz, maybe they will with a shock and can be "trained" to ride safer. of course, this can be an optionally upgrade. 

[Rawnei]

Sherman L already have the best safety feature namely Dynamic PWM tiltback.

[Duster]

On 7/28/2024 at 1:48 PM, widdershins said:

why would it be a range benefit? that's not how anything works. if anything the range would be worse, since the controller has to run more phase amps to the higher kv motor.

We might be getting our motors reversed here... My thinking is that putting the weaker (lower kw) SS motor in the Lynx or Sherman L would provide minimal range benefits, as the lower limit of the SS motor would encourage slower acceleration to top speeds. But this is just theorizing. In practice there would likely be no significant difference.

[Skampster]

3 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Sherman L already have the best safety feature namely Dynamic PWM tiltback.

Is this the same as what the lynx has?

[Rawnei]

9 minutes ago, Skampster said:

Is this the same as what the lynx has?

Yes.

[Anthraksi]

Dynamic PWM tiltback is a very good safety measure, can't really blame the wheel if it gives you feedback that you can feel but choose to ignore.

I just hope they would make it available for the Sherman S. Apps get a PWM readout so I see no reason why it should not be possible. Plus it was in the earlier firmwares. At least some variation of it

But we'll see. They have made some promises regarding the older wheels a little while back so remains to be seen if they deliver or not.

Edited July 29 by Anthraksi

[Rawnei]

19 minutes ago, Anthraksi said:

Dynamic PWM tiltback is a very good safety measure, can't really blame the wheel if it gives you feedback that you can feel but choose to ignore.

I just hope they would make it available for the Sherman S. Apps get a PWM readout so I see no reason why it should not be possible. Plus it was in the earlier firmwares. At least some variation of it

But we'll see. They have made some promises regarding the older wheels a little while back so remains to be seen if they deliver or not.

LK when asked before said that the eeprom on the SS had limited space and that they couldn't implement it there unfortunately.

[Anthraksi]

29 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

LK when asked before said that the eeprom on the SS had limited space and that they couldn't implement it there unfortunately.

4k wheel and saving a few cents by skimping on that. Yes what a great decision.

So how come they mentioned that the hall sensorless feature would be made available on the SS as well? Don't figure the eeprom magically becomes larger unless they release a new controller version which would be pointless considering that well, the L exists and it kinda made continuing to manufacture the SS pointless at the same time.

Unless the hall sensor feature is a smaller feat to implement and takes less space and could be squeezed into the firmware. I still don't have any idea if its mostly software or hardware that allows you to ride without the hall sensor.

[widdershins]

3 hours ago, Duster said:

We might be getting our motors reversed here... My thinking is that putting the weaker (lower kw) SS motor in the Lynx or Sherman L would provide minimal range benefits, as the lower limit of the SS motor would encourage slower acceleration to top speeds. But this is just theorizing. In practice there would likely be no significant difference.

i did not talk about wattage, i said "kv". the ss motor is a higher kv, so it has a higher speed at a given voltage but requires more phase current to get the same torque (that's what kv means). rated motor wattage is a very poor metric that has very little meaning.

for gentle riding it's unlikely that it would make much difference but if one or the other motor is at a disadvantage, it'll be the higher kv motor that will result in more waste heat doing the same job.

[Duster]

5 minutes ago, widdershins said:

i did not talk about wattage, i said "kv". the ss motor is a higher kv, so it has a higher speed at a given voltage but requires more phase current to get the same torque (that's what kv means). rated motor wattage is a very poor metric that has very little meaning.

for gentle riding it's unlikely that it would make much difference but if one or the other motor is at a disadvantage, it'll be the higher kv motor that will result in more waste heat doing the same job.

Gotcha. I have read of the uselessness of the motor wattage metric. Ever since, I try to only use it when referring to motors we know are stronger than another (typically, this only works when talking about motors from the same manufacturer, hence comparing the motors of the SS to that of the Lynx/SL), mostly because I keep forgetting the term from that one chart on the forum that most objectively measures the strength of each motor. Once I get the hang of it I'll try to use that measure more.

Given what you're saying about the kv differences, it sounds like another drawback to the motor swap idea. However, the range loss alone (consolidating it from any other issues that the heat losses might put on the Lynx/SL's hardware) might not be a downside if you're racing for short bursts. Again, this mod seems like a racer's only kind of thing.

[widdershins]

yeah. probably the racer's ideal would be, since typically they are trying to ride at speeds close to the pwm limit, to just add another 20% or so to the unweakened free-spin speed of the motor. if the battery's power output is not the bottleneck, the next problem is heat, and you are going to get the least wasted heat by having a torquier, slower motor that takes fewer amps to drive. (this is also why there is a race to higher and higher voltages with faster wheels: it enables using higher-torque motors to reduce the overall amperage within the system, both at the battery and at the phase wires. heat comes from amps!)

so with a given battery, the ideal motor for top speed is going to be one that has comfortable but not excessive free spin overhead at the speed you're going when you reach the battery's power output limits. re-winding the motor to just the right characteristics is one way to do this.

overall wattage is a pretty useless measurement for electric motors because the amount of power they can deliver continuously is more closely related to their torque output (phase amps) than their power output, and you can get more power out of the same motor motor by just adding more volts and running it at the same torque at a higher speed (assuming it won't short its windings' insulation at the higher voltage, it's mechanically capable of running at the higher speed, etc.).

doing what they did with the ET Max and making the motor's magnet interactions even stronger by shrinking the physical gap with the tile magnets lets you run fewer and/or beefier phase wires will get you less waste heat in the motor's actual stator windings, but i am not sure to what extent that heat is even a big deal vs the heat management in the controller. it's a matter of whether controller or the motor windings are closer to getting too hot. so that's the reason the tile motor has a higher 24/7 duty cycle wattage rating, but in either case we aren't told either what kv the motors are or what voltage they receive their rating at!

[Paul g]

On 7/29/2024 at 6:39 PM, Rawnei said:

Sherman L already have the best safety feature namely Dynamic PWM tiltback.

    While it is a very good measure, thank god they did it- giving a good example to others as well, I find these tilt backs very destabilising, and especially concerning because they happen at high speed. They scare the hell out of me, and for a while I am asking myself if what I just witnessed was a tilt back or something else. I would definitely appreciate if I would have a device at my hand that would give me haptic feedback and even a luminous one (for example a red light turning on). And though the quality of the wheels have significantly increased in the last years, let’s remind wheel producers that they still have big gaps in safety that they need to address: proper back lighting, with special light for braking, and signaling.

[Paul g]

On 7/29/2024 at 4:33 AM, Tan Ho said:

if there's a 3rd party that comes up with a great haptic feedback wrist band, EUC manufactures can just provide the USB Type-C port for controlling. It can be something that is standardized in the EUC community for the betterment of everyone. No need for each EUC manufacturer to develop their own version. Heck, EUC World and DarknessBot can also make use of it for some customization and such.

As for the shock factor, I was thinking if folks don't care to listen to the warning with a buzz, maybe they will with a shock and can be "trained" to ride safer. of course, this can be an optionally upgrade. 

    Bether than dogs, humans! ☠️😂😂

[Anthraksi]

6 minutes ago, Paul g said:

    While it is a very good measure, thank god they did it- giving a good example to others as well, I find these tilt backs very destabilising, and especially concerning because they happen at high speed. They scare the hell out of me, and for a while I am asking myself if what I just witnessed was a tilt back or something else. I would definitely appreciate if I would have a device at my hand that would give me haptic feedback and even a luminous one (for example a red light turning on). And though the quality of the wheels have significantly increased in the last years, let’s remind wheel producers that they still have big gaps in safety that they need to address: proper back lighting, with special light for braking, and signaling.

You can also use a smartwatch that gets notifications from Darknessbot (iOS) or EUCWorld (Android) and set up a notification to pop up at a set PWM value. You have to however set the app's PWM alert lower than the wheel to get a notification before the wheel starts tilting back.

I don't consider the tiltback to be dangerous even at high speeds. I have mine set at 70kmh and have hit it a couple times. If that causes you instability, you had no stability to speak of at all even before the tiltback.

[Rawnei]

13 minutes ago, Paul g said:

    While it is a very good measure, thank god they did it- giving a good example to others as well, I find these tilt backs very destabilising, and especially concerning because they happen at high speed. They scare the hell out of me, and for a while I am asking myself if what I just witnessed was a tilt back or something else. I would definitely appreciate if I would have a device at my hand that would give me haptic feedback and even a luminous one (for example a red light turning on). And though the quality of the wheels have significantly increased in the last years, let’s remind wheel producers that they still have big gaps in safety that they need to address: proper back lighting, with special light for braking, and signaling.

That's surprising, LeaperKim's implementation of tiltback is very slow and progressive, for me it naturally hinders me from exceeding intended PWM as in making you require more intent, I don't feel it's sudden at all but very natural feeling almost not even feeling that it's happening.

Edited July 30 by Rawnei

[Anthraksi]

Just now, Rawnei said:

That's surprising, LeaperKim's implementation of tiltback is very slow and progressive, for me it naturally hinders me from exceeding intended PWM as in making you require more intent, I don't feel it's sudden at all but very natural feeling.

Also this. It doesn't just slam the pedals up on LK wheels, it kinda gently lifts them up to let you know that you hit a limit that you set. You can also set it to beep at that same spot as far as I know, so you know what is happening, if you can hear the beeps that is... Sure it may catch you off guard if you don't have an idea of your speed. I listen to the sound my tire makes to figure out how fast I am going, I can easily tell the difference between 50kmh and 60kmh

[Skampster]

Agree, LK tilt back is perfect. 

[Paul g]

21 hours ago, Rawnei said:

That's surprising, LeaperKim's implementation of tiltback is very slow and progressive, for me it naturally hinders me from exceeding intended PWM as in making you require more intent, I don't feel it's sudden at all but very natural feeling almost not even feeling that it's happening.

    That’s interesting. I only hit my InMotion V12’s tilt backs so I don’t have any experience with a LeaperKim wheel. Might be a better implementation.

     My thinking was that we need a way to signal changing direction intent and horn so we would need a device for wrist ( with buttons attached to finger, for example ). This device would be able to incorporate a taptic engine and red warning lights. If it would be made by a third party and work with all wheels that would be even better from my point of view. Even nicer if it would display speed, so we don’t need to look down. I don’t know what everyone thinks about that. There are some people, like Kevin- EUC Upgrades, that made a pressure button on the back pads that instantly activates brake lights ( does not have the delay that motion sensor ones have ) and there are some bicycle back lights with left right signals and remote buttons, but they’re made for bikes and very poorly designed ( read “ugly as hell” ).

  There is one important safety aspect here that wheel manufacturers could implement with little effort, and that is a dedicated brake light as they have the deceleration signal from the board that can be used to activate it instantly. For the other ones a bit more sweat needs to be shed. 

[Hellkitten]

7 minutes ago, Paul g said:

EUC Upgrades, that made a pressure button on the back pads that instantly activates brake lights

https://www.brakefreetech.com/
 

These work great for brake light indication and added visibility. A ton of local riders here in Toronto use them. Bright with a decent battery life.
Hand signals also work well and drivers understand what you’re trying to communicate. I’d be leary about adding an unknown turn signal light setup into the mix. IMO.

[Paul g]

1 hour ago, Hellkitten said:

https://www.brakefreetech.com/
 

   Thanks, I know about that helmet light, but I personally would not add that weight to my already heavy motorcycle helmet, it also creates a weight imbalance that will put pressure on the neck. That brake light is working on kinetic sensors so will have a delay and that is an issue. On my wheel I have mounted two strong 350 lumen lights on the back pads that have similar features.

   The problem with signal lights is not necessarily during the day but in the dark, most notably during the winter. Then motorised vehicles should have turning signals to be legal and the legal part of the problem is a real thorn in the back right now where I live. I’ve been stopped by police and told if they find me riding again they will add 6 points on my driving licence , confiscate my wheel and make me pay a £300 fine, so the situation is quite serious. Those points might take 4 years to be erased from my licence. 

[Rawnei]

 

[Standard4130]

Any updates y’all have from eWheels about when the L’s are getting shipped out? I’m patiently waiting for my email notification….. I’m going up north to Yellowstone at the end of the month & would really like to bring my new wheel!

[Jason McNeil]

10 minutes ago, Standard4130 said:

Any updates y’all have from eWheels about when the L’s are getting shipped out? I’m patiently waiting for my email notification….. I’m going up north to Yellowstone at the end of the month & would really like to bring my new wheel!

The container is arriving this Tuesday, hopefully shipping out by the end of next week, but it all depends on what mood Customs are in.

[Standard4130]

2 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

The container is arriving this Tuesday, hopefully shipping out by the end of next week, but it all depends on what mood Customs are in.

Thank you Jason! I’m going to keep my fingers crossed & hope for no later than the 29th on my doorstep…. I’ve got 100’s of miles of road & trail to explore!!! 

[Rawnei]

29 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

The container is arriving this Tuesday, hopefully shipping out by the end of next week, but it all depends on what mood Customs are in.

You bastards in NA/CA got all of the first batch. 🤬😂