What fancier wheels will 2025 bring?

[Finn Bjerke]

I should stop buying wheels now since the future will prob bringer faster, studier and torqueer wheels - Any rumours about what the EUC producers are brewing on these days? 

More Volts? 
More Suspension? 


Im told Leaperkim and Inmotion have plans about new wheels very soon.  I have Sherman, V13 and s22... 

[OldFartRides]

I had wheel  fever in the beginning, but I’m going to wear out the ones I already have first. Then maybe buy one more before I kick.

Thats the plan

[techyiam]

12 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

I should stop buying wheels now since the future will prob bringer faster, studier and torqueer wheels

You live in Europe. Are you really still looking for faster wheels than your v13. You already ride the Sherman S, V13, and the S22. 

Shouldn't you be looking at smaller, slower, and lower performing wheels?

 

Personally, I would like to see a 20" suspension wheel from Inmotion that is based off the V13, not the V14, but utilizes a hydraulic suspension system.

I like to see a Lynx killer from Begode that is loosely based on the ET Max but with hydraulic suspension. However, the weight must be competitive to the Lynx.

Edited May 5 by techyiam

[atdlzpae]

8 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

I should stop buying wheels now since the future will prob bringer faster, studier and torqueer wheels

Not really. Fast technological advancements happens when a technology is young.
EUC's are very mature by this point, now the only advancements really left are trade-offs.

[Poker]

 I was hoping that with lynxes popularity for its weight would mean that someone pushes that concept even further. Carbon fiber is even lighter than magnesium for instance. 

[Funky]

And i want to see 20kg/40lbs wheel made for REAL last mileage users... With amazing carry/trolley handle, which can be operated one-handedly! (Motor kill switch built inside said handle.) Still having solid/strong axle and at least 40kmh/25mph speed. (Ofc faster - the better.) With real smart BMS and waterproofing.

One single wheel is enough.. I'm not asking for dozens to be made in same category. (Compared to all these new wheels that are over 30kg/70lbs.)

Edited May 5 by Funky

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, Poker said:

 I was hoping that with lynxes popularity for its weight would mean that someone pushes that concept even further. Carbon fiber is even lighter than magnesium for instance. 

But who, and how many are willing to pay the significant increases in msrp?

I believe there are already some people who feel the price of the Lynx is quite high.

I also hope that Lynx's popularity should also direct other manufacturers to put out wheels with hydraulic suspension with choices of spring rates.

Edited May 5 by techyiam

[macgyvercanada]

I'm hoping for a mid range mid weight fast charging offroad cruiser with just a bit of suspension.  I'm not going to the dirt jump park or doing huge drops, i just want to get around at a reasonable pace and be able to lift the damn thing.  Willing to go heavier than Funky.  At this point the V11Y is probably in the sweet spot but it's like to see a bit more tech evolution.

[Funky]

22 minutes ago, macgyvercanada said:

I'm hoping for a mid range mid weight fast charging offroad cruiser with just a bit of suspension.  I'm not going to the dirt jump park or doing huge drops, i just want to get around at a reasonable pace and be able to lift the damn thing.  Willing to go heavier than Funky.  At this point the V11Y is probably in the sweet spot but it's like to see a bit more tech evolution.

My right now wheel is 26kg heavy. For mid range it's perfect. I just personally want something lighter for my next wheel. I could easily carry 30kg wheel if i really wanted, but i don't.  I would gladly sacrifice speed and range for lightness. 

I also was looking at V11/Y, but it's so big..

Why can't we get big tire and everything built inside the motor apartment.. You would need only half cut pipe going over top of tire (For safety/mudguard) and have a neat seat at top:

 

Edited May 5 by Funky

[macgyvercanada]

Big issue with the V11 series is the shell/suspension design making it hard to mount pads, lights, or anything else.  Also, the batteries and electronics are not suspended (just the rider), so it really thumps sometimes.  Not ideal.

I really like the idea of hiding components inside a hollow motor, but that exposed tire in the video makes me very worried about friction burns in terrible places...

Edited May 5 by macgyvercanada
More words!

[Funky]

23 minutes ago, macgyvercanada said:

I really like the idea of hiding components inside a hollow motor, but that exposed tire in the video makes me very worried about friction burns in terrible places...

I did mention "cut pipe" design like mudguard covering 60-70% of upper part of tire. Meaning you would not have exposed tire at all. Shell over a Shell design. Tire would travel true tunnel.. 

You would have big flat sides for pads and place for big comfy seat, if one needs a seat. And by having almost all tire covered - you would have amazing mudguard.

More or less "low rider" of a wheel. Where it's tire is almost completely hidden.. Also in crash - it would simply keep rolling till stop - no damage to wheel at all. (Can't speak about damage done to surroundings.)

Edited May 5 by Funky

[DavidB]

I watched a Russian video the other day courtesy of Google translate. It was with a guy who has developed a reputation for sorting EUC suspensions. When asked about how manufacturers could improve the suspensions he was pretty adamant. Reduce unsprung weight.

I had also thought about internalized batteries & electronics etc. Clean designs. But every bump jars the electronics and batteries, although the Z10 didn't have too many issues in that regard.

CATL now has 5C LFP batteries with power densities close to nmc cells. A lot of people are afraid to get PEVs due to all the apartment fires and some transport companies ban PEVs.

For true acceptance and last mile use the safety has to be sorted.

[techyiam]

40 minutes ago, DavidB said:

When asked about how manufacturers could improve the suspensions he was pretty adamant. Reduce unsprung weight.

Aside from the V11, that is basically the weight of the motor/tire assembly. What we do know is that the Lynx suspension works well. On the other hand, the linkage suspension systems without the roller sliders don't work as well. For most use cases, just by adopting Fast Ace hydraulic suspension would help a lot already. Reducing unsprung weight further doesn't sound cost effective. The rim, stator hub, wheel spoke, and motor covers are already made from aluminum or magnesium alloys.

[Tomallo]

11 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

Not really. Fast technological advancements happens when a technology is young.
EUC's are very mature by this point, now the only advancements really left are trade-offs.

Huh? If EUCs are very mature, what about smartphones, laptops? I think there's still a lot of room for improvement and innovation. Look at how the smartphone is "figured out" in the sense that many models look so similar that they're hard to even recognize, and each iteration is barely different and better (if at all) from the previous one.

[Funky]

10 minutes ago, Tomallo said:

Huh? If EUCs are very mature, what about smartphones, laptops? I think there's still a lot of room for improvement and innovation. Look at how the smartphone is "figured out" in the sense that many models look so similar that they're hard to even recognize, and each iteration is barely different and better (if at all) from the previous one.

Yet they are still the same.. Getting better displays or better cameras won't change the basics.

Same as EUC's all having one wheel. (Aside of that E20 monstrosity..) Adding better suspension, etc won't change them. They still will be the same.

Only thing left now is waiting for better battery technology to become a reality. 

 

Same as bicycles - nothing much has changed. When they first were made.. Or cars.. Or anything really.  

Edited May 5 by Funky

[atdlzpae]

35 minutes ago, Tomallo said:

Look at how the smartphone is "figured out" in the sense that many models look so similar that they're hard to even recognize, and each iteration is barely different and better (if at all) from the previous one.

Well, the same is true about EUCs, is it not? Every iteration is an incremental improvement, we haven't had real "leaps" for a long time.

Efficiency of the new EUCs is basically the same as the older ones. And if you want something "powerful" that rides 90km/h for 200km, it will weight 50kg. Because the technology is almost the same.

KS18XL, a 6 year old model is still being produced. And it's a very good EUC for commuting.

#####

The last true innovation in EUC were shock absorbers. And that's been iterated on for a few years already.

Edited May 5 by atdlzpae

[Aztek]

A torquey light (under 30kg) suspension 20" wheel would be nice.

The biggest advance would be if we had solid state battery packs - 50% lighter and non-explosive. The biggest problem with our wheels nowadays is the lithium ion batteries. They are heavy, dangerous and degrade.

[Funky]

36 minutes ago, Aztek said:

A torquey light (under 30kg) suspension 20" wheel would be nice.

The biggest advance would be if we had solid state battery packs - 50% lighter and non-explosive. The biggest problem with our wheels nowadays is the lithium ion batteries. They are heavy, dangerous and degrade.

Don't forget about 0-100% charge in ~30 minutes.. They could even build the charger in the wheel itself.. And we would not need big batteries anymore, because at any outlet one could top off their wheel in very short time.

Imagine charging wheel true USB.  And needing to carry around only small USB cable.

Maybe that dream will be a reality in next 5-10 years.. Doh 20" may still be to high of a ask to be under 30kg.. 18" could be done.

Edited May 5 by Funky

[Finn Bjerke]

Interesting thread....... 

I asked what the future EUCS will be and the answer I got was wishfull thinking ....  Wonderfull dreamers. 

The SHerman S is fasat as hell the Sherman Patton / Lynx has more voltage and is faster to accelerate. 

[slippyfeet]

1 hour ago, Finn Bjerke said:

I asked what the future EUCS will be and the answer I got was wishfull thinking ....  Wonderfull dreamers. 
 

Catch 22 proposition.  All our opinions here will be wrong until something is officially revealed.

My guess is a $6000 Abrams successor of some kind soon. If history is cycling again, its LK that moves the market trajectory each year.
 

[macgyvercanada]

Quote

They could even build the charger in the wheel itself.. And we would not need big batteries anymore, because at any outlet one could top off their wheel in very short time.

Imagine charging wheel true USB.  And needing to carry around only small USB cable.

We could do USB charging today, it would just take a few weeks.  Lighter batteries won't mean less charging input power per Watt-hour.  The limiting factor for charging at a wall outlet will be the wall outlet itself which offers 15A as a standard.  We already have 15A chargers.  Issue is that even a light 500Wh battery will take about 20 minutes to charge at a standard North American wall outlet.  We'll need Level 2 EV chargers pushing 40A @ 220V to properly quick-charge a solid state EUC battery; that'd get 550Wh down to 4 minutes charge time!  And you won't want much less battery than that I figure; an ultralight wheel's Wh per km isn't going to be that much better.  Consider my body weight and even riding a 1 kg wheel is only 30% overall weight savings over riding a Lynx.  

Edited May 6 by macgyvercanada

[Aztek]

8 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Wonderfull dreamers

Yes we are

Otherwise 2025 will most probably bring more of the same - heavier, faster, more expensive unnecessary wheels - a trap for new EUC riders. I hardly can tell one from another anymore.

Better dream some.

Edited May 6 by Aztek

[techyiam]

8 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

the answer I got was wishfull thinking ....  Wonderfull dreamers. 

Well, it appears the manufacturers have the rumour mill under very tight control.

I know of someone who has been to China and was showed things. However, this person is under NDA or equivalent, and would not spill the beans. Which of course is the right thing to do. Honourable guy, and smart. Otherwise, he would lose his connection and future input.

But the result is that the public at large won't know what is coming.

So, I guess the next best thing for us, which is under our own control, is to dream big.

Hopefully this would have a tiny influence on the manufacturers.  

 

[Funky]

8 hours ago, macgyvercanada said:

We could do USB charging today, it would just take a few weeks.  Lighter batteries won't mean less charging input power per Watt-hour.  The limiting factor for charging at a wall outlet will be the wall outlet itself which offers 15A as a standard.  We already have 15A chargers.  Issue is that even a light 500Wh battery will take about 20 minutes to charge at a standard North American wall outlet.  We'll need Level 2 EV chargers pushing 40A @ 220V to properly quick-charge a solid state EUC battery; that'd get 550Wh down to 4 minutes charge time!  And you won't want much less battery than that I figure; an ultralight wheel's Wh per km isn't going to be that much better.  Consider my body weight and even riding a 1 kg wheel is only 30% overall weight savings over riding a Lynx.  

I mean battery size - from 3600Wh down to ~2000Wh.. Because we could charge them very fast, we would not need those big batteries anymore. As we can charge fully in 5-10 minutes at any outlet. (I mean anyone can top of their wheel around any outlet very fast.)

Charging 3600Wh or ~2000Wh i think ~2000Wh will get to 100% faster. (Both charging at same power..) Or was i wrong thinking like that? I just thought that smaller battery will charge faster, as it needs less time to get full.

But yeah - outlet power is next issue..  4 chargers 1 per pack - issue fixed.  

Edited May 6 by Funky

[macgyvercanada]

Quote

I mean battery size - from 3600Wh down to ~2000Wh.. Because we could charge them very fast, we would not need those big batteries anymore.

Well consider that a 15A @ 110V (standard North American) wall outlet can safely pump out 1,500 Watts of power at maxiumum.  It doesn't matter how fast a solid state battery could possibly charge, a 2,000 Wh pack would still take 1.33 hours to charge on a standard outlet, and that assumes 100% AC to DC conversion efficiency.

Quote

As we can charge fully in 5-10 minutes at any outlet.

10 minutes @ 1,500 Watts can provide a theoretical maximum of 250 Wh; a bit less in reality.  So if that's enough battery capacity for you then it's all good!  4 chargers would be a viable way to quadruple that amount, but they would need to be plugged into 4 separate outlets on 4 separate household circuits or you'll be popping breakers at the electrical panel.