Recommendation for an EUC in the Philippines?

[Greyman]

About me - 5'8", 180lbs, 44yrs old.  Ex-athlete, but not fit any more.  Moderate lower back pain.  Work from home, so not a commuter.  Just looking at an EUC for fun, maybe the odd day out here or there with a motorcycling group.  No stairs to worry about, but would want to be able to lock up the EUC securely in e.g. a mall car park if possible.  I've never ridden an EUC before, and have only taken a friends OneWheel for a spin a small handful of times.  So, virtually no experience with these vehicles.

Roads here in the Philippines are notoriously poorly constructed and maintained - potholes, cracks, gouges, blow-ups, ravels, etc are very very common.  I'd encounter dozens of such just getting from my place to the main road a couple of miles away.  Top speeds for most roads here are ~40mph (mostly on national highways), and far less than that for suburban roads.

The key criteria is something that will handle the bumps and cracks with as much comfort and stability as possible, and is also durable / reliable / low-maintenance.  Top speed and range aren't particularly important, >60 miles would be nice but not a dealbreaker.  Availability of parts in the Philippines, or at least in Asia in a pinch, is a big consideration.  I'd have to do any servicing work myself, since I'm not remotely close to the capital.

Cost is not really a factor, happy to spend $$$$ for the right EUC for my situation.

With all of that.... what would y'all recommend?

[alcatraz]

18in wheel with suspension.

If it's expensive I wouldn't even think about locking it in a parking lot. Trolley it with you.

Come to think of it, even it it was cheap would I do it. The reason being that it's not just $$$ but a lot of time invested getting everything dialed in.

There's a wide range of 18in suspension wheels. Suspension in euc is at an infancy stage compared to motorcycles. Choose carefully.

[meepmeepmayer]

4 hours ago, alcatraz said:

18in wheel with suspension.

Yep, that sounds right. Or 16 inch with suspension, that might also be enough.

You have a wonderful plethora of wheels to choose from!

18 inch: Master, Sherman-S, S19, S22, Commander GT (soon)

16 inch: S16 (soon), Patton, Extreme, Commander Mini, Inmotion Adventure (soon)

and some others. Chose the one you just like best.

[Greyman]

Suspension wheels - got it, that makes sense.  "Choosing carefully" or "choosing the one I like best" are difficult propositions though, as I have no way of objectively judging what's good or bad and have to rely on the experiences of others.  Which is the reason I made the post in the first place

In the plethora of choices available, are there any in particular that stand out in terms of stability and reliability?  Where do I go to get a reasonable comparative analysis on the pros/cons of each of these wheels?

RE trolleying the wheel inside - I suspect the guards at a lot of malls will not look kindly on me trucking in a wheel with road dirt and dust all over it, and spreading it inside on their shiny clean mall floors.  Unfortunately.

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Greyman
Clarification

[0000]

18 minutes ago, Greyman said:

RE trolleying the wheel inside - I suspect the guards at a lot of malls will not look kindly on me trucking in a wheel with road dirt and dust all over it, and spreading it inside on their shiny clean mall floors.  Unfortunately.

Unless you're regularly riding in the mud, you shouldn't think of it any differently than being dirtier than the rubber on the bottom of your shoes. In fact, the narrow strip of rubber in contact with the ground on a rolling tire could even be less than the surface from both shoes/boots so rather the wheel may actually be cleaner than regular foot traffic. Just don't accidentally lift the trolley handle up and perform a burnout and you should be fine as long mall security can be persuaded with logic/reason if the need arises.

You might even say "are the bottoms of your shoes not rubber?" to trip them up Socratically if you get some friction

Can't help you on narrowing down the selection, just don't buy a newly released wheel until it's been on the market for a while especially as a new person to the hobby. Also, I'd compare YT disassembly reviews to get an idea of the maintenance involved if I was in your shoes.

[Greyman]

4 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

Unless you're regularly riding in the mud, you shouldn't think of it any differently than being dirtier than the rubber on the bottom of your shoes. In fact, the narrow strip of rubber in contact with the ground on a rolling tire could even be less than the surface from both shoes/boots so rather the wheel may actually be cleaner than regular foot traffic. Just don't accidentally lift the trolley handle up and perform a burnout and you should be fine as long mall security can be persuaded with logic/reason if the need arises.

You might even say "are the bottoms of your shoes not rubber?" to trip them up Socratically if you get some friction
 

Lol, nice pun.  Unfortunately that sort of logical reasoning just doesn't work here.  The society in general is much 'free-er' with very few rules constraining what you can do with your life and how you do it.  However, when there ARE rules they're often enforced with brutal rigor, especially by lower level workers that aren't granted much in the way of autonomy.  A typical mall guard is paid around $10-$15 USD a day, they're not going to risk their jobs letting a foreigner track something in that may get them in trouble later from some petty bureaucrat in management.  Just easier to say no to one random guy, instead of saying yes and potentially getting in strife with their supervisor.  It's just how it works.

 

4 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

Also, I'd compare YT disassembly reviews to get an idea of the maintenance involved if I was in your shoes.

This is great advice, I hadn't thought of taking the 'disassembly review' angle to get ideas on maintenance and servicing.  Perfectly obvious in hindsight, like so many good ideas are.  Thanks heaps.

[0000]

14 minutes ago, Greyman said:

Lol, nice pun.  Unfortunately that sort of logical reasoning just doesn't work here.  The society in general is much 'free-er' with very few rules constraining what you can do with your life and how you do it.  However, when there ARE rules they're often enforced with brutal rigor, especially by lower level workers that aren't granted much in the way of autonomy.  A typical mall guard is paid around $10-$15 USD a day, they're not going to risk their jobs letting a foreigner track something in that may get them in trouble later from some petty bureaucrat in management.  Just easier to say no to one random guy, instead of saying yes and potentially getting in strife with their supervisor.  It's just how it works.

TY :). I had a feeling it'd be like that, had to go for the pun anyway. Makes sense. How's life as an expat over there going otherwise?

Oh yeah, another thing now that I think about it - considering the state of the roads you'll probably want to go for a proper aftermarket/speed-rated scooter tire. There's lots of threads on swapping tires here on the forum, but if you can find a proper heavier/thicker tire, you'll probably save yourself some trouble from flats later on even though it's sometimes a pain to mount (and then center it on the rim). Depends on what the wheel you end up with comes with though.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Vanturion

[Greyman]

4 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

TY :). I had a feeling it'd be like that, had to go for the pun anyway. Makes sense. How's life as an expat over there going otherwise?

Life as a digital nomad expat here is incredible.  There are some downsides (as with any country really, and if it was perfect it'd become too crowded.... and then wouldn't be perfect any more ) but for my current position in life every day is more amazing than the last.

7 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

Oh yeah, another thing now that I think about it - considering the state of the roads you'll probably want to go for a proper aftermarket/speed-rated scooter tire. There's lots of threads on swapping tires here on the forum, but if you can find a proper heavier/thicker tire, you'll probably save yourself some trouble from flats later on even though it's sometimes a pain to mount (and then center it on the rim). Depends on what the wheel you end up with comes with though.

Also very useful advice, and something I hadn't considered - it hasn't come up at all in any of the "beginner's guide" reading I've done to date.  Thanks again.  Any particular recommendations?  Can I just grab e.g. a Pirelli or Michelin motorcycle tire with the right diameter and aspect ratio and bung it on, or is it more complicated than that?

[0000]

4 minutes ago, Greyman said:

Life as a digital nomad expat here is incredible.

That sounds fantastic, I am a bit envious then!

5 minutes ago, Greyman said:

Any particular recommendations?  Can I just grab e.g. a Pirelli or Michelin motorcycle tire with the right diameter and aspect ratio and bung it on, or is it more complicated than that?

Well, tire selection is something that many people are pretty particular about as it can change the entire riding dynamic and feel which makes sense as controlling a wheel is arguably more closely linked to feeling/feedback than with any other type of vehicle.

Generally you have 3 types of tires: street, dirt/offroard, and hybrid. Myself I went with a hybrid tire since my use case is 30% street and 70% off road. It's a compromise in the dirt, but it has worked out well enough all things considered. One of the tradeoffs to riding a proper knobby tire in the street is a slight loss to efficiency (range) and an increase in rolling noise. Another dynamic that will change the feel of a tire in use which could easily influence the reviews you may read about is how they fit on a wider vs narrower rims. Just another thing to consider if you decide to dive into the nuance of this aspect.

I've only had experience with one aftermarket tire and felt the need to get it right in one go so I won't make any specific recommendations because there's just too many factors to consider/balance. I think the approach that works best is to know your use case, the rim size (diameter, width) you need to fit figuring for clearance within to EUC shell or mudguard, then aggregate a bunch of reviews with hopefully some about the wheel you intend to purchase to get a feel of the best available options.

One other thing - if you get used to your stock tire and then switch, you might immediately dislike the feel of your new tire if you don't first get 3 things right:
1) center the tire on the rim 2) tire pressure for your body weight and thickness/profile of the new tire 3) account for time and miles to wear the new tread in a bit.
Just a heads up off the top of my head for some sticking points on new tire change.

[Greyman]

Understood.  Really appreciate all the advice, everything you've mentioned is useful for a newbie but hard to find, at least in the places I've been looking.  One more question if I can - does the weight of an EUC affect comfort and/or stability?

Forget the schlepping it around aspect, I'm only talking about in-motion handling characteristics.  E.g. is a heavier EUC generally more stable (with perhaps a trade-off of less nimble/agile?), simply because of momentum or inertia?  Or does it make little to no difference?

[0000]

Hmm I'd say not as much as other factors since generally all newer* suspension wheels are above 70 lbs, but I'm not the best person to ask as I don't have a lot of comparative experience.

That said, in terms of agility, some interesting factors to consider are the width of the shell and how far that sets your legs apart as well as the height of the shell between the legs. I think the taller and heavier the wheel, the less side-to-side (flickability) and twisting responsiveness  (at lower speeds) you get, and the more restricted the range of motion of your body relative to the wheel will feel for leaning type motions out of the typical forward-aft directions.

I ride what you could consider a performance wheel with one of the lowest shell height profiles with what might be called a medium shell width, and these dimensions help to give the wheel an extremely playful, agile feel as the low shell height allows for more freedom of movement particularly with the lower half of the body. Even mounting my seat mod which brings the overall euc profile more in line with the height of a typical suspension wheel changes the dynamic that would otherwise feel less restrictive. This is a lot of nuance though that I don't think too many riders concern themselves with and something I didn't think about until a long time after I became comfortable with the basics of riding.

That said, I don't think atypical side-to-side aggressive body maneuvers come into to play as much outside of dynamic terrain like mtb trails or possibly races where the rider often takes a lower-aggressive stance. You'll basically get used to whatever wheel you select (as long as you stick to it) and that will become your baseline normal. While the higher pedals that suspension wheels tend to come with are harder to learn/start out on, as the rider is higher off the ground, they do have another benefit of being at less risk of clipping a pedal over obstacles/debris.

Besides being in a wreck scenario or controlling the weight of your wheel at a stop, the momentum and inertia of say a 70 lb wheel vs a 110 lb wheel is probably less of a factor affecting feeling of comfort and control than the height of the pedals relative to the motor axis as well as the user-selectable pedal stiffness/response setting. Both of these factors contribute greatly to how a rider controls acceleration and deceleration. I can't speak about high speed stability though lacking experience riding a wheel over 35 mph.

Lastly, motor characteristics and power levels being equal, a noticeably heavier wheel will increase your braking-to-stop distance, something EUCs are not the best at compared to other conventional vehicles with mechanical brakes. Just another bit of nuance it doesn't hurt to be aware of.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Vanturion

[Roadpower]

@Greyman You and I are about the same height & weight (for reference). My bias is for an Inmotion product, in particular the V11. At this point it is a well known & stable quantity. It's also modestly priced. At least in the US it is. From your descriptions I don't see speed being an issue. The only brand I would not consider is a Begode product (again my bias).

The V11 might also be a winner for how you could snake a chain through the body to lock it to a strong bolted or cemented down bike rack or the like, although this idea of locking up a EUC while you are in a store is not something I would feel comfortable with unless I knew the environment well. If they did manage to steal a V11 locked up in this manner they would have to cut the chain/cable/lock, or pick the lock, or if a very crude attack they would have to destroy the upper body of the wheel.

That all said I think most riders end up with more than one wheel just due to learning what you think you like/dislike and also the grass is greener on the other side type of perception.

[techyiam]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:14 PM, Greyman said:

The key criteria is something that will handle the bumps and cracks with as much comfort and stability as possible, and is also durable / reliable / low-maintenance.  Top speed and range aren't particularly important, >60 miles would be nice but not a dealbreaker.

Depending on how you want to approach the learning stage, you could start with a small learner's wheel. You would most likely learn quicker. But if money is tighter, then you could skip the smaller wheel and go for something like a V11. but it will most likely take longer to learn, but it depends on the person. Some can learn rather quickly even on a 60 lbs wheel. After some time, maybe a year, you would probably know what you want to get.

 

 

[Greyman]

22 hours ago, Roadpower said:

@Greyman You and I are about the same height & weight (for reference). My bias is for an Inmotion product, in particular the V11. At this point it is a well known & stable quantity. It's also modestly priced. At least in the US it is. From your descriptions I don't see speed being an issue. The only brand I would not consider is a Begode product (again my bias).

Thanks for this. I took a really detailed look at the V11 based on your advice, but the outdated air suspension is unfortunately a dealbreaker for me.  All reports indicate that it just doesn't stack up to the suspension on more modern wheels.

Currently leaning towards the KingSong S22 Pro, with perhaps a few aftermarket mods and changing the tyre out for something more road-oriented.  Now the only difficulty is where to buy it - the only authorized distributor here (EUC Warehouse) seems completely hopeless.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Greyman