Monster Pro Best Street Tire and Nikola Best Street Tire

[Darrell Wesh]

I've owned and ridden the monster pro for almost 7,000 miles now, with 6,000 of those miles being on the Michelin Pilot Sport 1 motorcycle tire in 90/90-18 size. Stepping up to this size from the original 2.75-18 was a welcome improvement to comfort and stability but I remember seeing a loss in top speed, torque, and nimbleness.

 I was always overly fatigued in my feet and legs after only an hour of aggressive riding on the Monster Pro with the Michelin 90/90. What really tipped me over to wanting to tire downsize was when I tried a new, unknown tire on my Nikola. 

Vee Rubber Bike Tire 16x3

I was looking for a street tire for my Nikola instead of the shitty stock option and stumbled upon this with no reviews. I think i might be the first to have put this tire on. It's actually more narrow then the stock 3" tire (2.75") but transforms the wheel. Because it has less width, the torque is noticeably increased, range is increased, and nimbleness is increased. There is no more train tracking, the tire now reads your mind and turns when and how you want. It's so predictable it's very relaxing to ride the wheel now with minimal effort which equals minimal fatigue.

After seeing how a tire downsize effected my Nikola I began looking for a tire downsize for the Monster despite already owning Michelin quality. 80/100-18 was the size and I narrowed it down to the venerable Metzeler Roadtec 01 tire.

Metzeler Roadtec 01 Tire

The problem was this super tire was so popular there were none in stock. I had to scour the internet and luckily find a random ebay seller in Greece selling this size for the Monster Pro. After waiting 2weeks for the shipment I was able to put it on yesterday. It goes on nice and smooth, of course it is a motorcycle tire so some muscle is needed. 

My initial impressions: WOW. It's everything i hoped it would be. This 80/100 blows the Michelin 90/90 away. STOP BUYING 90/90. If you can find an 80/100 for non suspension wheels then they're gold. The extra sidewall height means dramatically more comfort going over bumps. The Michelin 90/90 was softer and more comfy then the stock tire in that it initially was a harder bump but no rebound (the stock tire bounced up and down like a basketball). This 80/100 Metzeler feels like there's actual rubber providing shock absorption over bumps and riding through grass was a pleasant enough experience with adequate grip.

The tire is visibly less width then the mammoth 90/90 Michelin when mounted, and that comes with a noticeable increase in acceleration/torque. I'm finally able to pendulum on the monster pro without significant effort, and accelerations from a stop are zippy. The biggest advantage is the incredible nimbleness compared to a 90/90 tire. I went on an hour long aggressive wide and felt much less fatigue afterwards. With the Michelin, carving was an entire body experience and you can just forget it above 30mph. As athletic as I am, I always felt like I wouldn't be able to swerve out of danger above 30mph with the 90/90 Michelin simply with how much more effort it took to carve at those speeds. This meant my Monster Pro was not relegated to rides with lots of traffic in the area.  Now, with the 80/100 tire it carved beautifully, with much less resistance. I no longer had to lean like a MotoGP rider in traffic circles just to get around them.

 

In short, with how heavy wheels are becoming, a thinner width tire might be the real solution that no one wants to think about. Wider is not always better.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Darrell Wesh

[mrelwood]

This is s good reminder, the tire choice affects the riding experience with a much larger scope than one would think.

 The width of the tire affects the turning response and behavior in exactly the ways you mention. But it doesn’t affect acceleration or braking. Since the tires are tubular, narrower tires usually have a smaller outer diameter. And that’s what affects the acceleration and braking response tremendously, as you had noticed.

23 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

STOP BUYING 90/90. If you can find an 80/100 for non suspension wheels then they're gold. The extra sidewall height

There shouldn’t be any extra sidewall height though. 90% of 90mm is 81mm, 100% of 80mm is 80mm. (In reality the actual measures of the tire can vary wildly, especially on narrow EUC rims.) And since the 80/100 is a narrower tire, it will probably compress a bit more, making the available shock absorbing height even lower. If you’re running then at the same pressure, the smaller tire is more cushy. And of course the rubber material and sidewall thickness affect the shock absorbing properties.

 To be clear, I don’t doubt for a second for any changes you felt. They are all explainable and even expected. Just that the exact cause for some of them was slightly off.

[Darrell Wesh]

On 7/21/2023 at 7:49 PM, mrelwood said:

There shouldn’t be any extra sidewall height though. 90% of 90mm is 81mm, 100% of 80mm is 80mm.

There is a dramatic difference both visually and in ride quality. You’re simply plugging in numbers. An 80mm sidewall height on an 80mm tire width is far different than an 81mm sidewall height on a 90mm tire width. 
As I said, the 80/100 has much more sidewall relative to the 90/90. And this increases shock absorption characteristics. 

[Darrell Wesh]

On 7/21/2023 at 7:49 PM, mrelwood said:

The width of the tire affects the turning response and behavior in exactly the ways you mention. But it doesn’t affect acceleration or braking

It most certainly improves acceleration. I upsized to a 90/90 tire. The Monster Pro was designed for an 80mm tire or a 2.75 which is its stock tire. I think you’re forgetting that part. So I simply put an OEM tire size back on it. 

[mrelwood]

On 7/23/2023 at 10:34 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

There is a dramatic difference both visually and in ride quality. You’re simply plugging in numbers.

Like I said, the actual measures and profiles vary a lot by each tire model.

 

On 7/23/2023 at 10:39 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

It most certainly improves acceleration.

Can you explain in technical terms how the tire width affects acceleration? And why it isn’t explained by the difference in the outer diameter? I’m sure a lot of people would like to understand this newly found phenomenon. Did you measure the exact outer tire diameter by any chance?

Edited July 25, 2023 by mrelwood

[Darrell Wesh]

On 7/25/2023 at 12:08 AM, mrelwood said:

Like I said, the actual measures and profiles vary a lot by each tire model.

 

Can you explain in technical terms how the tire width affects acceleration? And why it isn’t explained by the difference in the outer diameter? I’m sure a lot of people would like to understand this newly found phenomenon. Did you measure the exact outer tire diameter by any chance?

I did measure both tires off the wheel. I initially thought the new Metzeler tire was too tall, it was taller than the stock 2.75 monster pro tire. But after measuring it next to the 90/90 Michelin I found them to be exactly the same height, maybe less than a millimeter between the two. The Michelin has a more V rounded profile while the 80/100 Metzeler has more of a U shaped profile. 
 

Width only comes into play for helping acceleration when you’re using enormous amounts of power- think drag strip RWD race cars. But in our relatively weak wheels, thinner tires can always accelerate faster because less friction. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Darrell Wesh

[mrelwood]

On 7/27/2023 at 4:35 AM, Darrell Wesh said:

in our relatively weak wheels, thinner tires can always accelerate faster because less friction. 

There are two issues with your statement.

1) Racing bicyclist have been changing to wider tires ever since they learned that they will actually have a smaller rolling resistance. Do you have a source to backup your clause? You also didn’t mention the pressures you used with each tire, which largely affects the shock absorbing properties, as well as the contact patch size and shape.

It’s well known that knobby tires have a much higher rolling resistance than street tires. Yet there are no problems using a knobby on an EUC even in racing, other than the range is lower. If you were to compare the effort of acceleration on a knobby and an identically tall street tire (both with a comparable pressure), there wouldn’t be a notable difference, because:

2) Even if wider tires did have a higher rolling resistance, since we are on a self balancing vehicle it doesn’t really matter. The vehicle has to respond to the amount of torque you place on the pedals with an acceleration force that by rotating the motor perfectly matches your lean. Otherwise it wouldn’t stay horizontally balanced. If the wheel has to do more work to achieve what you ask for it to do, it will do so.

 We also can’t draw conclusions to the outer diameter of the tire from before it’s installed. Some tires are either stored tightly or just manufactured in a way that makes them more squished and taller. How the tire settles on an EUC rim is quite different.

 

 But my aim was to just correct the small bit of misinformation, not to make this a debate about the EUCs tire mechanics. I’m sure there’s enough to ponder for the readers by now.

[Darrell Wesh]

18 hours ago, mrelwood said:

We also can’t draw conclusions to the outer diameter of the tire from before it’s installed. Some tires are either stored tightly or just manufactured in a way that makes them more squished and taller. How the tire settles on an EUC rim is quite different.

Well I can assure you that these motorcycle tires are not squished with how rigid they come compared to a bicycle tire😂 you can practically ride them with 0psi. 
 

You can do all the supposing you want, you really are adamant on maintaining that width has nothing to do with acceleration despite the contrary being stated literally everywhere. 

18 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Even if wider tires did have a higher rolling resistance, since we are on a self balancing vehicle it doesn’t really matter. The vehicle has to respond to the amount of torque you place on the pedals with an acceleration force that by rotating the motor perfectly matches your lean. Otherwise it wouldn’t stay horizontally balanced. If the wheel has to do more work to achieve what you ask for it to do, it will do so.

 

You are wrong here saying it doesn’t matter-because we still can measure if there’s more acceleration by how hard we have to lean to get the wheel going. The 90/90 on kickstart would go nowhere(I’m sure you’ve seen my kickstart video). But the 80/100 rolls easily. This initial startup is the most important point of acceleration. The 0-10. That is where the most time is spent accelerating. It’s also the most easily measurable anecdotally and by timing. Both my Nikola and Monster Pro achieve faster 0-10 largely due to less friction making it easier to overcome inertia.

-For pressures My Nikola has equal PSI as the stock tire and the new 80/100 MPro tire is lower by 2PSI which should actually increase resistance and make it slower. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Darrell Wesh

[mrelwood]

 

4 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

you really are adamant on maintaining that width has nothing to do with acceleration despite the contrary being stated literally everywhere.

I haven’t seen it being said anywhere. Do you have a few links I could look into?

4 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

we still can measure if there’s more acceleration by how hard we have to lean to get the wheel going.

How do you measure how hard one has to lean?

4 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

(I’m sure you’ve seen my kickstart video).

I have not.

4 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

the new 80/100 MPro tire is lower by 2PSI which should actually increase resistance and make it slower. 

Yet it doesn’t.

[Darrell Wesh]

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Darrell Wesh

[Darrell Wesh]

11 hours ago, mrelwood said:

How do you measure how hard one has to lean?

It’s the same way you can tell the difference between the zippy ness of a 14” wheel vs a larger diameter wheel. Just less effort is required to make it “go”. Since swapping MPro tires that is the feeling I get, like the diameter is smaller- but on paper and  measured it’s the same. 
 

One explanation could be if the new tire weighs less to actually have that effect… I forgot to weigh them. Another explanation could be the U shaped profile of the 80/100 vs the rounder V shaped profile of the 90/90. I have no idea what that could do for acceleration.