Is China Using EUC's to spy?

[on one]

2 hours ago, Circuitmage said:

It's pretty easy to see when people get out of line...which is what I am guessing a large part of the "algorithms" are doing.

That's true, but the concerns about artificial intelligence by the developers of the technology are more concerned with most of the human race going extinct, and the remainder of us living in a chicken farm.

When it comes to if China or the US is spying on me through my devices, I am working on the concept for an app that would not release my data unless I get paid for my data. The other way I use my data and content is to actually communicate with the companies and the governmental agencies. Since they are reading it, then they know how I feel. It's like a direct communication link with the powers that be. They might be biased though. Still I really want to make the app that monetizes my data directly through some kind of tracking signature and a block chain, so we can validate each others data to legitimate how much the companies owe us. I fully support whoever else is working on an app like this too. I want to be involved with it, because it's one of those things that is going to happen, eventually.

While I admire Seba and his work with euc world, I don't want to just hand my data over for free either. I would love to partner with euc world or another euc app to make this happen. Actually, we could do a test run here in the euc community to pay for an updated euc block chain app that compensates us for our data or blocks it to anyone, including euc world. Seba could sell the app for like $5.99 so that euc world gets paid for their work on the app, and once a few of us join the block chain then we could make an offer to King Song to pay for our data. This actually gives King Song and EUC world a chance to shine because they would be part of something with amazing good fortune to everyone.

I would hope we could at least get a 20$ credit every month for the use of our personal data. So, if King Song were using my data then I would get a credit to my bank account for an agreed on amount based on my peer verified blockchain. Developer could easily create android app (linux) to replace the King Song app if King Song refused to pay us for our data.

Edited April 27, 2023 by earthtwin

[onewheelkoregro]

2 hours ago, earthtwin said:

One of the great checks and balances of the United States Constitution is that we can disregard laws that most of us don't agree with through juror nullification. So in theory at least, we are safe from laws that go against what a jury of our peers judges us. For example, I get a redflex stop light ticket automatically mailed to me by an artificial intelligence, if were coded as a misdemeanor then I could fight it with a jury of my peers who would most certainly uphold my right to have the violation witnessed by a human police officer. The problem with this is that so often, a red light violation does not rise to the level of misdemeanor, so I would have to wait until my drivers license was revoked and I was issued a misdemeanor ticket for driving without a license to actually fight the original red light infraction issued by a computer. Shew...

That is nice to believe but that isn't at all how the US government works. Many popular policies don't ever see the light of day because of the lobbying power of corporations. But it is a nice illusion to believe that your vote truly does matter.

 

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf

[onewheelkoregro]

And your vote on policies and laws get less effective the closer you get to your level of government. All the business owners in your city get together to dictate the best laws/policies to extract the most profit from the community.

[on one]

45 minutes ago, onewheelkoregro said:

3 hours ago, earthtwin said:

 

That is nice to believe but that isn't at all how the US government works. Many popular policies don't ever see the light of day because of the lobbying power of corporations. But it is a nice illusion to believe that your vote truly does matter.

Jury nulification has been used in a number of cases where either the law was unjust, or the law was being applied unfairly, or both. Consider the following from chat gpt: 

Historically, jury nullification has been used in a number of cases, including:

1. The Fugitive Slave Act: Prior to the Civil War, juries in the northern states frequently nullified the Fugitive Slave Act, which required the return of escaped slaves to their owners.

2. Alcohol Prohibition: During Prohibition, juries often nullified charges against people accused of violating the laws against the manufacture, sale, and distribution of alcohol.

3. Civil Disobedience: In cases of civil disobedience, juries have often nullified charges against protesters or activists who have broken the law to make a political statement.

4. Drug Laws: In recent years, some juries have nullified drug charges against defendants who were growing or possessing marijuana for medical purposes, or who were using drugs for personal use.

[DjPanJan]

17 hours ago, earthtwin said:

Thanks for bringing this up. Does eucworld actually take measures to protect our privacy? I am uncertain, yet hopeful. I think that this discussion gets at the actual policy of countries when it comes to  how potential enemy countries use public domain type information as intelligence. The CIA surely has a policy on this type of information. I google cia policy on safegaurding consumer information and found this: https://www.cia.gov/static/1e9e6ea141310e2fcd792e71bd24d792/Safeguarding-Information-Ops.pdf I quote, "In a 4 June 1998

Eucworld is app created in EU and is protected by GDPR european LAW.

You can chose use app with or without GPS or colect data function 

You can have all data just in you phone without uploadyng anywhere.

I am only APP tester and sometime i help translate to Czech language aka second low level translator. Main source CZ in eucowrld is Mr. ONDRA just for clarify.

Good free VPN is windscribe you can trafic 2GB monthhy for free. I use this VPN when i need something in Chinese apps after i unistall or FREZE this Chinese  apps manual take out permision is efective too.

My EUCs no need original apps anymore becasue is old models i dont know what new EUCs is conected to original apps if is some functionality blocked or exclusively in original Chinese apps. 

I speak about ANDROID and if you ROOT phone you can completly give FAKE information about location speed altitude phone data ETC if you are on paranoid side just ROOT andriod phone and you can fake all for 100% anonimity. Cons is on Roted phone not work PAY function ETC.

This is solution for you buy cheap android phone +-200Eur/dolar and ROOT = use this phone exclusively for EUC . 

 

[Bizra6ot]

On 4/27/2023 at 9:14 AM, jojo33 said:

@Bizra6ot keywords : balloon - china - huawei - xiaomi - honor - zte - winnie the pooh

Thanks but no thanks buddy now that you've associated my username with all this I'm spied on 
Hello CCP wish happiness and long life to Mr. Jinping 

[on one]

4 hours ago, DjPanJan said:

I am only APP tester and sometime i help translate to Czech language aka second low level translator. Main source CZ in eucowrld is Mr. ONDRA just for clarify.

Thank you for helping to create EUC world. Does Euc world want to talk about working on a block chain version that compensates users for their data?

[DjPanJan]

1 minute ago, earthtwin said:

Thank you for helping to create EUC world. Does Euc world want to talk about working on a block chain version that compensates users for their data?

Ask @Seba about this he is mastermind of eucworld.

[mike_bike_kite]

I was a bit confused this week when the US published satellite photos of the Chinese building hardware to turn off their spy satellites as they flew overhead. Weirdly, there wasn't a note of irony in the story. Personally, I'm more worried by commercial access to my "data" - have you ever read what permissions all these apps require? Then every web page you visit wants to have access to info on what sites you visit, where you live and any personally identifying info. I suspect I'm the only one that carefully goes through unticking every requested  permission. I can't remember what info this forum asks for (or EUC World) ...

[on one]

1 hour ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Personally, I'm more worried by commercial access to my "data" - have you ever read what permissions all these apps require?

Me too, I hope I can find an app to switch to soon, just look at all this difficult to understand language.

 

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[0000]

13 hours ago, DjPanJan said:

I speak about ANDROID and if you ROOT phone you can completly give FAKE information about location speed altitude phone data ETC if you are on paranoid side just ROOT andriod phone and you can fake all for 100% anonimity. Cons is on Roted phone not work PAY function ETC.

Even if you take some of the painstakingly annoying steps to de-Google your smartphone with a custom OS like LineageOS, there is often built-in functionality that still reports your unprotected phone information going around so-called VPN anonymity even with that feature enabled simply by "turning on" WiFi functionality. There is simply an incredible amount of ways electronic devices and computers use to leak your personal information and at such frequency that anonymity and retaining your privacy in digital communications is damn near an impossibility, especially if you regularly use a smartphone of any kind.

The results and discussion from a recent analysis performed by a German Android penetration tester on LineageOS security goes a long way in informing just how leaky these devices are in general, even when you expend efforts to attempt to wrestle back some of your digital privacy flashing a custom OS. I will say, it's very much worth your time for anyone reading this post to run this link through a translator if you're curious about this stuff and concerned in anyway about the implications of what having no digital privacy means going forward.

Basically, for whatever convenience and functionality they provide in day-to-day life, smartphones probably should be thought of as Slave Tracking Devices first IMO, and personal computers, desktops, etc are not all that much better. It's not necessarily about what's happening today with all the information people have already willingly given away, although that's already had many consequences from industry competition to political decisions. It's more about what happens tomorrow and in the near future.

For the OP - it's not China you have to worry about (unless you live there). What should be of extreme concern to everyone everywhere is how their own governments and other powerful organizations in closer proximity will use all of this data they've siphoned up over the years now that the technology, strong(er) AI, is available to make aggregating and processing it trivial. A primary concern being, how this kind of AI will be used to manipulate, steer, and control large populations of people to constrain their future choices and force conformity to the whims and goals of the powerful.

A question: can people really exert free-will (or have informed consent) if their access to information is filtered in ways designed to limit their knowledge?

Personally, I think giving up on the idea of privacy is one of the most dangerous mentalities to have in this increasingly digitally powered world.

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Vanturion

[Clem604]

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

King Song User Agreement (they call themselves an intelligence company) Shenzhen King Song Intelligence Technology Co.,LTD.

The S22 Pro is the official unicycle of the CCP 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Clem604

[onewheelkoregro]

9 minutes ago, Clem604 said:

The S22 Pro is the official unicycle of the CCP 

And on behalf of my mother's family, EUC's are the official transportation vehicle of citizens of the DPRK

[on one]

1 hour ago, Vanturion said:

Basically, for whatever convenience and functionality they provide in day-to-day life, smartphones probably should be thought of as Slave Tracking Devices first IMO

Yes, they can be depending on how we use them. One problem that many AI developers are concerned about is an AI programming us, the user, to do the AI's bidding.

1 hour ago, Vanturion said:

For the OP - it's not China you have to worry about (unless you live there). What should be of extreme concern to everyone everywhere is how their own governments and other powerful organizations in closer proximity will use all of this data they've siphoned up over the years now that the technology, strong(er) AI, is available to make aggregating and processing it trivial. A primary concern being, how this kind of AI will be used to manipulate, steer, and control large populations of people to constrain their future choices and force conformity to the whims and goals of the powerful.

I hope one of our community members can come up with a hack for us to turn of all communication and data saving of information of our wheels. Or maybe some of us can produce a free product, free as in the consumer gets to control his/her own machine and data. I'd love to form a company and a product like that because we could start a movement and a testing company to test foreign and domestic products for consumer freedom.

1 hour ago, Vanturion said:

Personally, I think giving up on the idea of privacy is one of the most dangerous mentalities to have in this increasingly digitally powered world.

We have a great opportunity to solve an important problem.

1 hour ago, Clem604 said:

The S22 Pro is the official unicycle of the CCP 

lol, you mean The Chinese Communist Party, sad but true, we should work on a controller board, or even a daughter board that gives us the consumer freedom we deserve, we could sell it for like $400, make a sweet little profit and liberate our community. Or, better yet program a usb stick to jailbreak our wheels!

Edited April 28, 2023 by earthtwin
another idea

[ride INMOTION]

On 4/27/2023 at 10:43 AM, earthtwin said:

I know this looks kind of silly, but I have been thinking about this ever since US nearly blocked Tik Tok. Is there a way to turn off the mapping capabilities of my King Song? Could China be using us as unwitting spies? Am I just being overly paranoid by worrying about this everyday?

hi,great topic.

As I work for Kingsong,I can tell you the truth that you have been over-worrying.

I read the data of Kingsong App daily,nothing sensitive will Kingsong App correct ,it is just a service App for users.

Kingsong is a small factory,with small quantity users,spy people have no interest in us,hahah.... 

 

another question is:how do you think about Kingsong App?what improvements should we make to better serve your need ?

Edited June 27, 2023 by Kingsong Customer Support
add a question

[0000]

18 minutes ago, Kingsong Customer Support said:

Kingsong is a small factory,with small quantity users,spy people have no interest in us,hahah.... 

Reasonable. Personally, I'm more worried about my own government, their own flagrant and prolific abuses of power, and their evident disdain and disregard for the rights of the individual they are supposedly duty-bound to uphold increasingly as it comes to matters of speech, bearing arms, search and seizure, due process, and of course privacy. The more data there is floating around, even if it is coming over bluetooth out of an EUC, the more avenues they have to acquire this personal data, and the easier it will be to figure out new methods classify individuals and control them especially with, now, AI's ability to parse large amounts of data. The trust is gone, and I'm not interested in generating more of this 'meta'data to make things easier in the future for our would-be rulers.

Perhaps you have a favorable view of your government living in China. If you do, more power to you. For me, living in the US I view those working in the upper eschelon's of power here as the literal scum of the Earth. Dog shit is given higher regard from my POV. For this reason, I'm not interested in using any apps on the slave tracking devices we commonly refer to as smartphones. My recommendation: retain full functionality through the display for any features that would otherwise be configured through your app.

And since you asked, it'd be great if our wheels reported the actual voltage on the display rather than the simplified battery level indicator. The battery indicator showing bars on my Begode wheel is a simplified abstraction that provides significantly less utility than knowing precisely what the battery voltage is at any time. If you already do though on Kingsong wheels, please disregard.

[varamontelo]

On the title, EUC must be associated with an application for a chinese viewer. He requires theses conditions, and a known system. But if you change your application he's blind. I've tried old languages, less used today. There's debug risk with some EUCs.

[ride INMOTION]

27 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

Reasonable. Personally, I'm more worried about my own government, their own flagrant and prolific abuses of power, and their evident disdain and disregard for the rights of the individual they are supposedly duty-bound to uphold increasingly as it comes to matters of speech, bearing arms, search and seizure, due process, and of course privacy. The more data there is floating around, even if it is coming over bluetooth out of an EUC, the more avenues they have to acquire this personal data, and the easier it will be to figure out new methods classify individuals and control them especially with, now, AI's ability to parse large amounts of data. The trust is gone, and I'm not interested in generating more of this 'meta'data to make things easier in the future for our would-be rulers.

Perhaps you have a favorable view of your government living in China. If you do, more power to you. For me, living in the US I view those working in the upper eschelon's of power here as the literal scum of the Earth. Dog shit is given higher regard from my POV. For this reason, I'm not interested in using any apps on the slave tracking devices we commonly refer to as smartphones. My recommendation: retain full functionality through the display for any features that would otherwise be configured through your app.

And since you asked, it'd be great if our wheels reported the actual voltage on the display rather than the simplified battery level indicator. The battery indicator showing bars on my Begode wheel is a simplified abstraction that provides significantly less utility than knowing precisely what the battery voltage is at any time. If you already do though on Kingsong wheels, please disregard.

Thanks for your recommendation.

I will transfer your recommendation to our Kingsong App software engineer.

I fully understand your worry about privacy,but the political topic is out of my job.I admired Steve Jobs's focus on user experience .Topic about user experience is my interest.

 

[on one]

6 hours ago, Kingsong Customer Support said:

another question is:how do you think about Kingsong App?what improvements should we make to better serve your need ?

I like your King Song App, I don't use it very often. Only once in a while to change speed alarms. I think it would be fun if your app had a way for me to see where other king song riders were riding if they opted in to location and video sharing.

[Cerbera]

On 4/27/2023 at 3:43 AM, earthtwin said:

Could China be using us as unwitting spies? Am I just being overly paranoid by worrying about this everyday?

I would ask what mapping our EUCs provide that isn't already available via google maps and other sources. What value would there be in China monitoring the various shopping trips and trail rides most of us undertake on our wheels ? I have to say, I am not in the least bit concerned about this. There are far too many other aspects of owning and riding an EUC that are more worthy of our time and attention.

[ride INMOTION]

10 hours ago, earthtwin said:

I like your King Song App, I don't use it very often. Only once in a while to change speed alarms. I think it would be fun if your app had a way for me to see where other king song riders were riding if they opted in to location and video sharing.

is  location and video sharing too sensitive to user's privacy ?

[dredwheel]

14 hours ago, Kingsong Customer Support said:

is  location and video sharing too sensitive to user's privacy ?

not for most normal people, no. most of our apps ask for it when they use location or camera. 

[0000]

7 hours ago, dredwheel said:

not for most normal people, no. most of our apps ask for it when they use location or camera. 

Politics aside, do you think normal is an accurate description of people who are not concerned with sharing and storing their most personal information including their contact-list info, location data / physical movement history, and even camera images to often unscrupulous companies and their apps who often 'anonymize' easily de-anonymized PI data for sale to unknown third-parties or often store that data in an unsecure manner which is then later breeched, hacked, and stolen?

I'll give you an example of why 'normal' people shouldn't be so dismissive when it comes to controlling their digital privacy, hot off the press from just the other day -

Quote

A European digital rights organization is alleging that a telecommunications giant and a U.S.-based fraud detection company are violating privacy laws by gathering and transferring the cellphone data of half the world’s population and using it to create personalized scores of individuals’ trustworthiness.

https://therecord.media/privacy-organization-accuses-us-company-of-using-cell-data-to-rank-phone-users-gdpr-violation

So, allegedly, you have powerful (American) telecom organization(s) using some of this PI data floating around thanks to, presumably, the blanket trust 'normal' people trade for convenience that is now being used to score the legitimacy of people broadly. I don't know about you, but that sounds a bit dystopian to me on the surface. Given that credit-history information already exists and is ubiquitous, a normal person might ask why this kind of classification and list-making of people is necessary. Also, even if this information in this one instance/example is not being used in a way most people would see as nefarious or malicious, it should raise some general concern how your PI and metadata is being used outside of your purview especially when the head of Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency in the US asserts the following:

Quote

“One could argue that we’re in the business of protecting critical infrastructure, and the most critical infrastructure is our cognitive infrastructure,” Easterly said. “We now live in a world where people talk about alternative facts, post-truth, which I think is really, really dangerous if people get to pick their own facts,”

--Jen Easterly head of CISA  

I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in a world where it becomes illegal to simply look at information and decide for yourself what is and isn't true. I don't need a government stooge to do that for me, and I think it would behoove anyone that wants to retain some measure of freedom and autonomy to have some concern regarding the personal information these kinds of authoritarians have access to.

Anyway, at the end of the first article:

Quote

They also call for a fine, which under EU law would not exceed €236 million ($257.4 million), or 4% of Proximus’ annual revenue.

Even if the lawsuit is successful, it appears that the fine limit ensures that the judgment would just be a matter of course or simply the cost of doing business. In other words, the court system(s) won't protect you or even deliver justice for these type of digital abuses. It's all on the individual to make an effort to care about these matters and then take action.

Once your PI is leaked (to criminal elements or authoritarian officials ^{did I repeat myself}), that's it, there's no recourse for "getting it back." Just ask Jennifer Lawrence and other celebrities how trusting their intimate photos to "cloud" security using their Apple smartphones worked out for them.

I can't make anyone care about the importance of privacy, but I know for a fact what the result will be if the majority of people take comfort in conforming to naivety simply to afford themselves some measure of convenience. The actions of the powerful will control the choices of the many, and the rights of the individual will continue to diminish in the face of the needs of the many as that false justification is used to, in reality, enrich the very few at the top.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Vanturion
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