Why Big Fast Wheels are Here to Stay in the US Market

[techyiam]

50+ mph in car traffic during the day on non-perfectly smooth roads.

Too bad Dawn wasn't riding the V13. It would have been nice the to see the V13 in action in a group ride on real roads.

It looks like the Master Pro's were doing well.

Was Marty riding alone in a group ride? He is making the V13 look bad. (Maybe I got it wrong. Marty just didn't want to chance it, and end up sending Chooch a wrecked V13) 🙂

Shame that there were no Sherman S sightings. 

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by techyiam

[2disbetter]

What was the wheel in blue, the rider was wearing jeans? It looked like it had a custom rim in it. Really cool looking. 

Edit: Nevermind, I can see from the front light that it is a Master. 

And I agree with your premise. The EUC is a fantastic transportation vehicle, and you can park it under your desk at work, for example. Even Bromptons can barely do that. 

I commute currently to work in a Velomobile (Intercity DF) which is completely human powered. I thought that a EUC wouldn't require any real effort, but the truth is that you are using a LOT of muscles. Muscles you don't normally use. I feel tired after practicing for an hour. Just really cool that the EUC gives you a workout as well. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by 2disbetter

[2disbetter]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

Too bad Dawn wasn't riding the V13. It would have been nice the to see the V13 in action in a group ride on real roads.

I saw in the youtube comments that Dawn said the V13 is just bigger and heavier for her. It is undoubtly fast, but she felt the Master was just smaller and more nimble. 

She ended by saying the V13 was a power cruiser, capable of any speed, but that the Master was a nimble racer wheel. 

[techyiam]

36 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

I saw in the youtube comments that Dawn said the V13 is just bigger and heavier for her. It is undoubtly fast, but she felt the Master was just smaller and more nimble. 

She ended by saying the V13 was a power cruiser, capable of any speed, but that the Master was a nimble racer wheel. 

Indeed she did. But I wasn't really asking why she didn't ride it.

My interest was seeing the V13 in action, and she could have made it happen. So, it was great shame that she wasn't riding the V13. The other reason is because she is small and light, and the wheel is big and heavy. It would have been interesting to see her riding the V13 at high speeds in traffic on roads that weren't smooth.

[2disbetter]

10 minutes ago, techyiam said:

My interest was seeing the V13 in action, and she could have made it happen. So, it was great shame that she wasn't riding the V13. The other reason is because she is small and light, and the wheel is big and heavy. It would have been interesting to see her riding the V13 at high speeds in traffic on roads that weren't smooth.

I agree. I was impressed to see her riding it as well. I remember seeing a video of her trying the Sherman S as well. Impressive. 

Kuji Rolls has a video of the V13 in action, and he really was whipping the thing around, and going fast. 

He and Hsiang basically called the V13 the wheel of the future. Over-engineered with safety standards that exceed everything else on the market. They set a high bar. The drawbacks? Weight, and the suspension is not perfect. It takes a lot of effort to control the wheel due to its weight. 

[mhpr262]

On 1/18/2023 at 8:04 AM, 2disbetter said:

I thought that a EUC wouldn't require any real effort, but the truth is that you are using a LOT of muscles. Muscles you don't normally use. I feel tired after practicing for an hour. Just really cool that the EUC gives you a workout as well. 

Its just a matter of practice and getting used to it. I am a very overweight, 48 year old guy and very unathletic but I could ride all day long without any issues if it wasnt for the pain in my feet. Once you have gotten used to riding an EUCand can relax standingg on the pedals  it doesnt take more effort than standing on solid ground (as long as you dont do difficult offroad riding).

Edited January 19, 2023 by mhpr262

[2disbetter]

Good to know. I guess I am just really tense when riding now, which is normal. I look forward to when I'll be relaxed and confident on the thing. One thing is for sure, I'm in love with EUCs. Just the coolest form of a transportation yet. 

[Funky]

Question doh.. Is there any rules/laws about EUC's in street even made in USA? Or other countries? I would get riding on bike paths and such. But on street with cars?

Or are people simply riding so said "ghost" vehicles. Not minding much to rules/laws? Because you can't really control EUC riders. As EUC doesn't have a license plate. And rider information can't be found so easily, if the rider ever breaks any rule/law?

Yeah big EUC's are here to stay. But how legal are they?  That's the real question in my mind..

 

It seems anyone can go buy one and go ride on streets, not having even a driver license... I can only imagine the problems you will have, if you ever collide with a car. Or get in any accident..

Edited January 19, 2023 by Funky

[2disbetter]

As far as I know, EUCs are legal in the US and on the street. That doesn't mean that you wont have a problem with law enforcement, as I think it would be pretty easy to make a case for reckless or unsafe issues that they could pull you over for. Some states might say they are illegal. Not sure how heavy that is enforced. I think, that in most you can ride them without any fear. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by 2disbetter

[Spaghetteh]

EUCs very much exist within a grey area in the USA. It definitely varies based on local municipal laws but in general I believe bicycles are legal on roads though to ride one on a 45mph road like this would be suicidal. There is a class of road-legal vehicle that in general do not require a drivers license or vehicle registration, that is moped-like vehicles that legally cannot exceed 30mph. Up until recently EUCs could have been argued to fall under that category but now that they're reaching highway speeds it may not be long before we see regulatory action.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Spaghetteh

[2disbetter]

Yeah exactly. Now EUCs can very easily replace a motorcycle, which is heavy regulated and requires licensing and insurance. I think this will come for the EUC as well, but they wont be outlawed or anything. I think they make too much sense as commuting and transportation tools. 

[Funky]

I personally don't see EUC place on streets - with cars.. (But that's my option/logical thinking.) And i don't see any government letting them even join on streets.. You will be lucky, if you are allowed to go 30mph on bike paths. (Or whatever allowed speed is on bike paths.)

Think about the old farts in government, etc.. Do you really think you're one-wheel device will be allowed? I don't see that happening. At least not in next 5-10 years.. When the old fars will be replaced. And more new blood retakes their place. They "MAY" rethink the rules/laws. But otherwise not happening.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Funky

[Spaghetteh]

There's no single approach the USA will take to regulate PEVs in the near-term - for that to happen there would need to be action taken at the federal level and PEVs just aren't that big of an issue for that to matter in that scope. I doubt we'll even be seeing statewide regulations within the next several years. It'll be up to the big cities like NYC, LA, Chicago, SF to enact laws and smaller cities will likely follow-suit.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Spaghetteh

[Funky]

17 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

As far as I know, EUCs are legal in the US and on the street. 

Aren't they banned/illegal in NYC? (I think more places..) You can't even keep them in apartment buildings. Because of fire hazard.

17 minutes ago, Spaghetteh said:

EUCs very much exist within a grey area in the USA. It definitely varies based on local municipal laws but in general I believe bicycles are legal on roads though to ride one on a 45mph road like this would be suicidal. There is a class of road-legal vehicle that in general do not require a drivers license or vehicle registration, that is moped-like vehicles that legally cannot exceed 30mph. Up until recently EUCs could have been argued to fall under that category but now that they're reaching highway speeds it may not be long before we see regulatory action.

In my country there are zero laws/rules for EUC's. I personally place them in Scooter/Bike category and follow those rules "somewhat". (Somewhat as there isn't really any rules/laws - we can ride where ever we want. Only limited access is on streets..)  Scooter is allowed to go 25km/h speed.. And even then my normal riding speed is around ~35km/h. So i'm already breaking the law by that logic.  

 

EUC's need their own laws/rules made.. But i don't see that happening anytime soon.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Funky

[Clem604]

23 minutes ago, Spaghetteh said:

EUCs very much exist within a grey area in the USA

Same here in Canada. I'm not sure the exact rules for EUC's specifically but regardless, the rules aren't enforced by the local police here in my experience. I've had more cops come up to me to ask questions about it than anything else. There was a local rider here that received a ticket last week apparently for "riding without insurance" which is weird because you can't insure EUC's here. Maybe the cop was having a bad day or the person in question was riding like a dick.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Clem604

[Funky]

6 minutes ago, Clem604 said:

Same here in Canada. I'm not sure the exact rules for EUC's specifically but regardless the rules aren't enforced by the local police here in my experience. I've had more cops come up to me to ask questions about it than anything else.

I never really have any problems with cops also - mostly because i never see them.. Doh same time i have never seen and EUC rider - riding on street, true cars in my country. All that i have seen are riding on sidewalks.

If that happened and if there were police nearby. I see them being stopped and asked to ride on sidewalk.. Same time ticketed.  Because in most people eyes you are riding a "toy". And you have zero place being on street, same as scooters.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Funky

[Spaghetteh]

Somebody from Canada on the forum recently said they were in a donut shop in BC when two cops in line next to them said they could be fined for riding their EUC on the road. All that really says is that the cops are aware of the legal ambiguity of PEVs and if they woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day they may decide to give you trouble; I expect it to be similar here in the USA. The way I see it, if I'm willing to risk my life/safety riding these things on the street with cars then a fine is the least of my worries.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Spaghetteh

[Clem604]

Just now, Spaghetteh said:

Somebody from Canada on the forum recently said they were in a donut shop in BC when two cops in line next to them said they could be fined for riding their EUC on the road.

In my use case I should be okay, I avoid all main roads unless there is literally no other way to get where I'm going without being on the road. I much prefer bike paths and quiet residential streets.

[litewave]

Just now, Spaghetteh said:

Somebody from Canada on the forum recently said they were in a donut shop in BC when two cops in line next to them said they could be fined for riding their EUC on the road. All that really says is that the cops are aware of the legal ambiguity of PEVs and if they woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day they may decide to give you trouble; I expect it to be similar here in the USA. The way I see it, if I'm willing to risk my life/safety riding these things on the street with other cars then a fine is the least of my worries.

Donut shop? For real? 

Seriously, I think it depends on the state, county and city where you live. There are many places in the US where a libertarian mindset dominates, and it's not in those states considered "liberal" from my experience.

 

[Clem604]

4 minutes ago, Funky said:

I never really have any problems with cops also - mostly because i never see them.. Doh same time i have never seen and EUC rider - riding on street, true cars in my country.

If that happened and if there were police nearby. I see them being stopped and asked to ride on sidewalk.. Same time ticketed.  Because in most people eyes you are riding a "toy". And you have zero place being on street, same as scooters.

I also try to ride my EUC like I would on a bicycle when I see cops nearby. I don't want to give them any more reason to stop me.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Clem604

[Funky]

3 minutes ago, Clem604 said:

I also try to ride my EUC like a bicycle when I see cops nearby. I don't want to give them any more reason to stop me.

I ride like that everywhere. I personally choose not to ride with cars - because i have sidewalks everywhere. And living in non-busy city, those sidewalks most times are empty. Around people i go ~15-20km/h and when noone is around i go 35-40km/h same sidewalks. Ofc i slow down around blind ares and such. I don't wanna hit someone coming around a corner. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Funky

[Clem604]

10 minutes ago, Funky said:

I ride like that everywhere. I personally choose not to ride with cars -

I 100% agree. I'm comfortable riding on main roads with traffic IF I have to,  but I would rather not if it can be avoided. Luckily Vancouver is a fairly bike friendly city and there are usually bike routes that will take you where you need to go without needing to go onto a main road.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Clem604

[Spaghetteh]

19 minutes ago, Clem604 said:

I much prefer bike paths and quiet residential streets.

Same, I opt to ride through residential areas, bike/foot paths, and even parking lots when I have the option (and I almost always do). But I live in Portland which competes for the best city in the states for bikes/PEVs. Sacramento was harder to navigate as every neighborhood had a 45mph, 3-lane-both-ways avenue surrounding it, there was one particular stretch where I'd choose to walk my wheel on the sidewalk for half-a-mile because the only other option made me feel unsafe.

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Spaghetteh

[Funky]

11 minutes ago, Clem604 said:

I 100% agree. I'm comfortable riding on main roads with traffic IF I have to,  but I would rather not if it can be avoided. Luckily Vancouver is fairly bike friendly and there usually is a bike route that will take you where you need to go without needing to go onto a main road.

You fancy. In my city we don't even have traffic lights. We have those peasant white lines on ground.  And bikes can ride anywhere a person can walk. I do the same with my EUC, but "faster".

I have only once/twice ridden on street. As no cars were around and some people was walking on sidewalk. I simply hopped on street and went around them. Ridding next drive-on curb back on sidewalk. Didn't want to ask them if i could please pass them.. Which i politely normally do.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Funky

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Clem604 said:

Same here in Canada. I'm not sure the exact rules for EUC's specifically but regardless, the rules aren't enforced by the local police here in my experience.

Electric Wheels are not federally regulated in Canada. You can search in Schedule III of the Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Act. Any motor vehicle not covered there is not regulated. The Road and Motor Vehicle Traffic Safety Branch of Transport Canada enforces the Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Act. Motor Vehicles that are not covered in Schedule III are relegated to the provinces to regulate. But the provinces are not equipped to create the safety standards, so they can either treat them like ebikes that are speed limited to 32 km/h, or just banned them. BC currently still bans electric wheels.

At the outset, the BC provincial government was looking into permitting PEV's on roadways or bicycle pathways. Unfortunately, by the time the law came out, they only permitted e-scooters at 25 km/h maximum speed. The legislation has framed the law as a pilot project for only six regions initially. But was recently expanded to eight regions. However, electric wheels are still banned.

I personally has never been stopped by police. And I ride by a community police center on a daily basis. Very often there are officers sitting in their police vehicles parked outside. But, I agree that you just never know.

Also, my riding doesn't attract attention.

1 hour ago, Clem604 said:

There was a local rider here that received a ticket last week apparently for "riding without insurance" which is weird because you can't insure EUC's here. Maybe the cop was having a bad day or the person in question was riding like a dick.

That's another one. Do you know where he was riding?

"Riding without insurance" is a common way to penalize drivers operating illegal vehicles on the road. However, I think it is too harsh and not appropriate for electric wheels. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by techyiam