Need to cruise sustained speeds of 50mph for 30 miles

[360rumors]

I need to be able to ride at sustained cruising speed of 50mph for 20 to 30 miles. Beyond that requirement, I’m looking for best safety and reliability. My budget is up to 5k. Which would you suggest?

i’m considering:

Inmotion v13 (?)

Master Pro

Electric bike? Not sure if legal or within budget for this speed  

a maxi scooter or motorcycle. Downside: lazy to do maintenance like oil changes etc.

 

[Spaghetteh]

That sounds exhausting to do on the regular NGL, hopefully you're talking round-trip but still. Despite Inmotion being the "more reliable" manufacturer, the V12 release did not instill confidence that the V13 release is going to be problem-free; hopefully they learned from their QA failures but you can never know with these companies. The Master Pro has the benefit of already having been released and so far without any major issues but Begode has objectively the worst reputation as far as safety and reliability go even if they've been doing better with their newer wheels recently.

With that speed and distance requirement, if I were you I'd start to consider a moped or motorcycle, though you'd need a special license to operate those legally at that speed which comes with safety courses and DMV visits as well as the extra maintenance as you mentioned. Still, today's PEVs aren't quite motorcycle replacements and IMO your requirements lean towards a motorcycle being the safer and more suited fit. Today's most advanced wheels may be capable of what you need but rider fatigue is real and that plays into safety just as much.

[360rumors]

41 minutes ago, Spaghetteh said:

That sounds exhausting to do on the regular NGL, hopefully you're talking round-trip but still. Despite Inmotion being the "more reliable" manufacturer, the V12 release did not instill confidence that the V13 release is going to be problem-free; hopefully they learned from their QA failures but you can never know with these companies. The Master Pro has the benefit of already having been released and so far without any major issues but Begode has objectively the worst reputation as far as safety and reliability go even if they've been doing better with their newer wheels recently.

With that speed and distance requirement, if I were you I'd start to consider a moped or motorcycle, though you'd need a special license to operate those legally at that speed which comes with safety courses and DMV visits as well as the extra maintenance as you mentioned. Still, today's PEVs aren't quite motorcycle replacements and IMO your requirements lean towards a motorcycle being the safer and more suited fit. Today's most advanced wheels may be capable of what you need but rider fatigue is real and that plays into safety just as much.

Yes good point about fatigue.  My commute is actually only 5 miles each way, although occasionally I go on errands and other trips. The longest semi continuous trip (short stop to pick up something) I’ve had to do so far is 13 miles round trip.  The 20 mile stipulation is to stay comfortably above 50% when I ride 10 miles. 
yes I do have a motorcycle license and I used to ride a sport bike. 

[Roadpower]

My commute is a 13 mile round trip, I do that on a V11 (used to do it on the 18XL). I think you are over spec'ing your requirements (speed wise) here BUT I can see how I could be wrong about that due to traffic differences between LA & NYC. I charge every two days but I could push that out to three days, I would just have to manage or budget it a bit. EUC's are like motorcycles, you can end up being fussy about small things when you ride them enough.

If you are really wanting to do highway like speeds of 50MPH, I think I would probably just stick with the motorcycle. I have a motorcycle but I stopped riding it a few years ago once I realized how much better the EUC is, plus unless I am willing to run red lights and lane split constantly (not legal in NYS but definitely doable if you go about it smartly), the EUC is faster in NYC. Or at least it is on the path I must take.

[upL8N8]

No wheel can sustain 50+ mph over longer distances.  That's pretty much the max speed of the Master / Master Pro and you'd probably be right up against the cut out line and would have to be leaning hard for those types of speeds, not casually riding.

IMO, you'd probably want something that can sustain 30-35 mph.  Over shorter distances, the 15-20 average mph isn't gonna save a whole lot of time.

If your intention is to ride on 50 mph highways... I wouldn't suggest it.  You'll be dealing with high speed wobbles, and high speed cut outs while already dangerous, come with the added risk of sliding under a car, truck, bus, or just getting run over by the car behind you.

Edited November 28, 2022 by upL8N8

[techyiam]

Sustained speeds of 50 mph for 30 miles. Wouldn't that be on a highway. Does this road have a bike lane on the side?

If I have to ride in traffic with other cars on a regular highway, I would get a motorcycle. I think it is still too early in the evolution of electric wheels to that. 

But if there is a bike lane, like our Sea-to-Sky highway here, it is probably doable if you recharge often. 

Additionally, both the Master Pro and V13 are too new to talk about actual safety and reliability. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by techyiam

[Spaghetteh]

2 hours ago, 360rumors said:

The 20 mile stipulation is to stay comfortably above 50% when I ride 10 miles.

Ah that makes sense. I read your original post as you were planning to be going at least 20 miles at high speeds every day but your additional details makes it sound much more reasonable to be doing on a PEV. I agree with @Roadpower that it seems you may be over-speccing for your commute as well as the sentiment that sustained 50+mph for commuting just isn't safe or viable.

With that, most wheels released in the last several years are capable of meeting your range requirements with lower average speeds (20-30mph). I regularly use my wheels to run errands and commute to the weekly group-ride (~30 mile trip in total) and even though my V12 is capable of 40+mph I find myself most-comfortable averaging 25-30mph as I typically stick to residential roads and avoid riding with traffic.

I imagine LA's road infrastructure is quite different from Portland's but assuming routes through residential areas are available, your RS should be capable of suiting your current needs at residential area speeds. If you're looking for a little more headroom then I'd recommend considering a Sherman Max, or if you can hold-off a few months the Sherman-S (assuming the release goes smoothly). Maybe an EX20 though there seems to be some question over whether Begode is going to continue to supply parts for that model in the not-so-distant future.

Edit: EX.N's are also known to be ultra-reliable. But keep in mind that these last few months have been a bit of a suspension-rencessanise for EUCs and if you can hold off long enough for these newer wheels to be tested and deemed reliable (~6 months) you'll have a lot more options available to choose from.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Spaghetteh

[360rumors]

Thanks on my commute there are roads with 40mph speed limit, so cars drive at around 50mph. Parts of them have a bike lane and parts don’t. I’d like to be able to keep up with the speed of the cars if possible. I think this is safer than riding 20mph below the speed of cars on the side of the road. I believe the difference in speed increases the number of interactions so it is less safe imho. 

[techyiam]

21 minutes ago, 360rumors said:

Thanks on my commute there are roads with 40mph speed limit, so cars drive at around 50mph. Parts of them have a bike lane and parts don’t. I’d like to be able to keep up with the speed of the cars if possible. I think this is safer than riding 20mph below the speed of cars on the side of the road. I believe the difference in speed increases the number of interactions so it is less safe imho. 

I see. It isn't quite a highway, but it isn't slow either. One of the biggest issue I see right now is braking, and have enough acceleration at those elevated speeds to avoid potential accidents. I think the electric wheel rider may end up being basically a sitting duck. I would wait for another year to see how the Master Pro and V13 do on high speed roads, and see what next year brings.

Edited November 28, 2022 by techyiam

[Spaghetteh]

46 minutes ago, 360rumors said:

Thanks on my commute there are roads with 40mph speed limit, so cars drive at around 50mph. Parts of them have a bike lane and parts don’t.

Yeah, I try to avoid roads like this but I understand that's not always the most direct or convenient way. Most roads in Sacramento where I used to live channeled into a big multi-lane 45mph road eventually and I'd have to go significantly out of my way to take a safer route through residential roads and parking lots. Still, a longer commute is better than a hazardous one IMO; gives you more time to enjoy the ride anyway.

[upL8N8]

59 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I see. It isn't quite a highway, but it isn't slow either. One of the biggest issue I see right now is braking, and have enough acceleration at those elevated speeds to avoid potential accidents. I think the electric wheel rider may end up being basically a sitting duck. I would wait for another year to see how the Master Pro and V13 do on high speed roads, and see what next year brings.

TBH, I'd just find an alternative route, stay on the shoulder (if there is one), or go 15-20 mph on the sidewalk in those higher speed areas. If the 40 mph road is only for a mile, then 40 mph vs 20 mph only saves 1.5 minutes.  Sidewalks have some risks, but maybe not as fatal as the street.

At 40-45, holding the entire lane is a necessity (if not nerve wracking), but they're risking some a-hole tailgating them or trying to pass at a close distance to show their displeasure for being slowed down to *gasp* the speed limit.  If it's 2+ lanes, then the rider is risking being in the blind spot of some jerk trying to pass a slower car on the r ight who's holding the fast lane.

There was some study claiming car drivers don't see bicyclists as humans, so they will bully them without considering that their actions drastically drive up the chance of a fatal accident.

For anyone trying this... definitely get nice bright flashing lights on your backpack / helmet / wheel, get reflective tape / clothing if you're riding at night, and get the best pads / helmet you can.  You want lights on your front side for cars turning into the street ahead of you.  Also get a mirror on your wrist or attached to your helmet to see behind you.

I'd also warn people about high mph 2-lane backroads where the only way to pass is to switch into the oncoming lanes.  We've had multiple accidents in my state where a passing car ran into a line of bicycles they didn't see coming the other way.  Drivers happened to be drunk in the two cases I'm thinking of, but could definitely see some sober person doing it too.

There's also the legality of it.  If you're hitting these speeds on 40+ mph roadways in an unregistered / uninsured motor vehicle, I can't imagine the cops will be happy about it.  If they're real jerks about it, they could give you a ticket for an unregistered vehicle, another for an uninsured vehicle, and I'm sure they could find some other infractions to go along with it.  They could impound your wheel and charge you for that too.

Edited November 28, 2022 by upL8N8

[Roadpower]

Okay this may end up being lengthy, I hope not. I'll see how concisely I can frame all of this. I am a long time transportation professional, that is the stand point that this comes from.

When in traffic you want to not just be seen as a rider (motorcycle or PEV) but in some way you want to pop, you want whoever is operating a motor vehicle (or bike, PEV, ect) around you to be thinking about you, not just treated as another road object. To this end I used to wear a white helmet, this is in a city where everyone and their mother wears all black including the helmet. I would tell you how stupid I think this is but I don't want to unnecessarily insult people.

The reason I would wear a white helmet is because I wanted people to question if they were seeing a motorcycle cop or not. It is that very process that got them to thinking about me, thinking long enough to let up on their accelerator and further examine the situation and surroundings. This is all I wanted, just a fraction of time to be see, acknowledged and thought about, I wasn't just another road object, even if for a moment.

Being in the transportation industry having to wear a hi-vis vest or coat is a requirement these days. On roadways you see roadway workers all wearing hi-vis gear because they are required to. In some states I see highway workers with LED halo's, some with flashing vests, etc. A standard hi-vis vest must consist of reflective material in addition to unnaturally bright colors. The more surface area the better, you do not want just a bright pin prick of reflection or a light which is something I see too much of on motorcycles, you want surface area.

Okay so here is why I talk about hi-vis gear. I'm not sold on the idea of keeping up with motor vehicle traffic when those vehicles can easily outpace or pass you should they want to for whatever reason. First off you will have to be going at the upper range of your speed capabilities, if you think about how reaction time is very important to a motor vehicle operator, now imagine how it is you as a person riding on one wheel where you inherently have no safety fallback margins, you're not in a cage.

Here is a professional insight on passing. You either want to pass in a very definitive way or be passed in a definitive way, one of the big reasons for this is that people will subconsciously race you, you can prevent that by preparing for and doing a very definitive passing maneuver, or by controlling yourself allowing a person to safely and predictably pass you.

I absolutely agree with you about the dangers of speed differences but unfortunately if you are to maintain a speed that doesn't test the patience of people then you are going to be riding on the edge of capabilities where small dangers become large dangers. I'm able to routinely ride in the streets but in a place like NYC the speed limit has been almost severely tamped down to a city limit of 25, so a NYC PEV rider can generally operate in speed range much less demanding than what you are expecting to have to deal with.

So that takes us back to being seen, these are the options you have to weigh in how you want to deal with the conditions you have. I hope this helps.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, upL8N8 said:

A rider could hold the entire lane at 40-45 mph which would probably be pretty nerve wracking, but then they're risking some a-hole tailgating them or trying to pass at too close a distance to show their displeasure for being slowed down to *gasp* the speed limit.  If it's 2+ lanes, then the rider is risking some jerk trying to pass a slower car holding the fast lane on the right while the EUC is in a blind spot.

There are just too many unknowns for us to know whether the potential risks that the rider is exposed to can be sufficiently mitigated. If he is riding 45+ mph with cars in front and behind, I don't see it. There can bumps and debris on the road too.

For something like this, you have to know your wheel, your skill and experience level, the traffic, other driver behavior, and a strategy to mitigate the risks, like you guys have already mentioned. You just can't ride it casually like a motorcycle at this point in time.

Edited November 29, 2022 by techyiam

[Tawpie]

50 mph for 30 miles? Your batteries are going to be hot hot and you're going to need the biggest possible packs to get 30 miles. There was a EUCW tour of someone going flat out on a regular Master and IIRC they got 18 miles.

I think you want a proper motorcycle. Small one perhaps, but powered by dino juice.

[chanman]

Master Pro seems like the best single wheeled option but these mega wheels really make me question whether people buying them would be better served by a bike.

[Cerbera]

Yep - still a few years too early to expect an EUC to safely and repeatably do 50 mph for 30 miles. It's just too close to the max capabilities of the current wheels - you'd be in constant danger, you'd hammer the batteries every day, and 50 mph on something like a Master is bloody exhausting to maintain unless you have got some epic solution that seriously mitigates wind force. A motor bike in this case will be so much more safe and reliable and comfortable.

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

On 11/28/2022 at 8:01 PM, chanman said:

Master Pro seems like the best single wheeled option but these mega wheels really make me question whether people buying them would be better served by a bike.

Served probably ..fun factor nahhhhh.master pro is my next purchase  🤘

[DanCar]

In second place after the Master Pro, I'll suggestion the Veteran Sherman S.  Not as much range, but better suspension.  Master Pro suspension is described as garbage 3:45 into below video.

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by DanCar

[360rumors]

9 hours ago, DanCar said:

In second place after the Master Pro, I'll suggestion the Veteran Sherman S.  Not as much range, but better suspension.  Master Pro suspension is described as garbage 3:45 into below video.

 

I like the Sherman S’ quality and suspension but top speed is 45mph. As for master pro suspension, I think a coil spring can fix it the same way as master. 

[360rumors]

On 11/28/2022 at 5:01 PM, chanman said:

Master Pro seems like the best single wheeled option but these mega wheels really make me question whether people buying them would be better served by a bike.

I’ve wondered that too but my wife is against the idea. I’m also afraid of my son becoming interested in riding motorcycles himself 😅

[Impoy47]

On 12/3/2022 at 12:38 AM, 360rumors said:

I’ve wondered that too but my wife is against the idea. I’m also afraid of my son becoming interested in riding motorcycles himself 😅

The least of your worry is your son riding a motorcycle. He might rebel and he might want to ride your EUC 50+ mph! After your son turns 18 (atleast in the U.S), he can choose to ride a motorcycle or not.  We can only control so much and the rest can work themselves out. Maybe you can show your son the epic fails of riding a motorcycle and an euc. Hopefully a rude awakening. Hope you find the right euc for you. Stay safe and ride on. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Impoy47