Kingsong (s18) hall sensor fail/ hi current bug.

[enaon]

A friend's s18 has errors 203/217 when turned on all of the sudden, those are motor hall/ motor stuck errors. The motor turns freely so my guess it the hall sensors or cable. Placed another motor and the s18 runs fine, so the problem is isolated. 

To make the story short, I imported the error codes on the watch and I don't like what I see, it is in the lines of what @chanman reported when he had his hall sensors plugged in the wrong way around.

Amperage gets hi while errors are active, it just get hotter and hotter. 

I consider this a bug, taking the amps up while an error is active at zero speed is not normal, this demo video only goes to 18Amps, but I was able to make it stick at 54 for a few scconds before that, did't got it on video and don't want to press my luck.

I think kingsong should have a look. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by enaon

[chanman]

Hmm, yeah I'd call that a bug, shouldn't draw current with those errors active at all. I didn't get any diagnostic errors with the cable plugged in backwards, would have liked to have gotten that so I would have double checked that immediately, saved me some trouble. Have you tried to diagnose/repair the hall connector at all on the broken motor?

[enaon]

11 hours ago, chanman said:

 Have you tried to diagnose/repair the hall connector at all on the broken motor?

I was waiting for conformation that this is indeed a guarantee case, before opening it up. 
 

there is water/debris inside as a first hint

[Ffontana1]

S18 motor is not very well sealed and tend to get water inside.

I left  one unused for some months and now it's absolutely blocked by debris.

 

 

[Funky]

Dam there's so much water inside.. Where did he ride it - at beach? 

Did the motor cover itself have silicone? Where the cover screws screw in?

 

I always place silicone around whole motor cover and dab of grease around bearings. (Press bearing out of that cover, fill that groove with grease, then press the bearing back into cover.) - So no water/dirt can get in motor. For my it's has worked very well.

Heck you could even add little bit of silicone around where axle/bearing meet. - Afterwards, when the cover have been placed onto motor. (Grease would protect it from inside. Silicone would protect from outside.)

Same thing my dad did and he rode whole winter. (All that melting "salt" water coming down from wheel well, after each ride.. -Yes snow gets packed into wheel well.) The melting happened months, 2 times per day. No problems at all.

 

If you are scared, that you won't be available to remove covers after siliconing them "shut". - You need to grease the cover/motor little bit, simply make the surface "oily". The silicone will fill the gaps, but won't stick to the metal. So you can remove the cover easily. (Sure silicone will still stick, but nothing compared to placing silicone on "clean" metal. You will be available to remove the covers easy.)

 

You simply need to fill all those small gaps, where water could get into motor.. (Even hair line gaps. Like the motor covers have..)

Edited July 22, 2022 by Funky

[enaon]

I opened mine up too, just to check. Mine is clear. Same time of ownership, same use case, his has 8.5 thousand Kilometers, mine is at 5,2.  Poor QC is my guess. 

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by enaon

[Funky]

7 hours ago, enaon said:

I opened mine up too, just to check. Mine is clear. Same time of ownership, same use case, his has 8.5 thousand Kilometers, mine is at 5,2.  Poor QC is my guess. 

 

Can't be same "use case" as yours isn't wet.  Maybe your friend simply rode more in rain? Did he's motor even have that silicone bead going around motor? Yours seems had, or is that simply dirt?

[enaon]

35 minutes ago, Funky said:

Can't be same "use case" as yours isn't wet.  Maybe your friend simply rode more in rain? Did he's motor even have that silicone bead going around motor? Yours seems had, or is that simply dirt?

actually it was me that did more rain riding, some snow too. I also put it in the bathtub and do a freespin often with some water indide, to clean the top of the mudguard 

One thing that was different, his had clear silicone, mine had a blue material acting as a "casket". 

ps. one of my bearings was really bad, the other medium. 
replaced both with koyo 6203 2RS , fit was fine. 

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by enaon

[ffontana]

Check this motor.

Completely rusty and blocked by oxide.

Just trying to remove oxide with a cutter but not sure if I'll be able to recover it.

Almost no silicone on the cover edge.

Here in the picture I've just free one of the 54  magnets!!

 

[enaon]

29 minutes ago, ffontana said:

Almost no silicone on the cover edge.

I agree, this is what I noticed on the friend's s18, little to none silicone. On mine there was some more and it was blue, it seems the problem was the cover edge sealing. 

I am not sure how for how long humidity was in there, but the damage is as follows before and after a good cleanup.

the nickel coating on the magnets is almost gone, but other that this it looks ok. 



 

Edited July 24, 2022 by enaon

[Funky]

56 minutes ago, ffontana said:

Check this motor.

Completely rusty and blocked by oxide.

Just trying to remove oxide with a cutter but not sure if I'll be able to recover it.

Almost no silicone on the cover edge.

Here in the picture I've just free one of the 54  magnets!!

 

Is that worth 300$ to you? You could spend 300$ and simply get new motor.  

35 minutes ago, enaon said:

I agree, this is what I noticed on the friend's s18, little to none silicone. On mine there was some more and it was blue, it seems the problem was the cover edge sealing. 

Yeah - when ever i open the motor, i put pretty good bead of silicone going all around. When you screw the screws in the silicone presses itself out. Then i simply go with finger all around the edge. Small silicone bead even stays on the edge of the cover/rim. (That small grove where rim/cover meet.) - Extra protection. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Funky

[enaon]

One more note:

I thought having the cut on the axle looking down or up made no difference, it turns out it does. Assuming the cut is on the same orientation on the inside( on my motor it was not), then having it up or down makes a lot of difference humidity wize. 

Having it facing down creates a clear path from the side hole down to the hall sensors,

having it face up helps to not allow humidity in. 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by enaon

[Funky]

49 minutes ago, enaon said:

One more note:

I thought having the cut on the axle looking down or up made no difference, it turns out it does. Assuming the cut is on the same orientation on the inside( on my motor it was not), then having it up or down makes a lot of difference humidity wize. 

Having it facing down creates a clear path from the side hole down to the hall sensors,

having it face up helps to not allow humidity in. 

 

 

 

Yeah makes sense. If you stop riding hall sensor position is down or upwards.

In down position - If any water gets in, it will "drown" the sensors.. All water will gather around sensors.

Having them up - better.. As sensors would sit up. And all water would go down.

 

Dam i didn't think about that.  I don't know how i placed my motor in "pedals". (Meh.. I got all siliconed/greased, should not make big impact.) Luckily i got photos of my motor and on my "axle" i got sideways triangle cut. Meaning if i ever go inside the wheel, i can check without opening the motor. If i have place it right in pedals. 50/50 chance. If not i need simply replace pedals.. (Best part - because of photos i don't need to open motor.) 

 

Good find @enaon. Thanks.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Funky