Saboteur_ZA Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Have put 700km on this KS16X, which I bought new earlier this year. Had no issues with stability, other than usual beginner wobbles that went away with time. Took it for first long ride (80km), last weekend. Went bit offroad, dropped wheel few times due to lack of skill. Didn't fall, and not high speed drops. Mind you, one time the wheel flipped end over end quite impressively. Most of ride was on paved path. Anyway, on ride back, noted wheel felt strange, unstable. Thought it might be my tired legs, but wasn't convinced. Later I checked wheel for rim damage, spun wheel to see if centred, all looked fine. Rode 33km today. First part of ride fine, homeward trip felt like last weekend. Specifically noted tyre was following lines in paving. One section with paved tiles, was so bad it nearly threw me off! Not loving this wheel now at all. My questions... does higher or lower tire pressure make such tracking worse? I run fairly low pressure at about 25 psi. I've heard wider tires can be prone to this, but honestly never experienced this until now. Could the wheel have sustained some damage that isn't visible that is causing this? Maybe something to do with the axle? Not comfortable riding the wheel now until I figure out the cause (and solution...). Any ideas will be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFartRides Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Could try a free spin. Be careful. W.W. Just put out a trouble shooting vid someone linked to. https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/1019-the-video-thread/page/691/ I haven’t watched it. Best, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 Did you change tire pressure? I personally get the "riding on knife edge" feeling, if i go over 30psi.. I ride 28psi. Also i get many wobbles if i go over 30psi, under - no wobbles at all. Have you tried "re" calibrating the wheel? - The thing where wheel needs to be on level surface.. Maybe you got scared after those falls and now don't "trust" the wheel. And everything is in your mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 The train tracking/tram lining is a real hoot, right? Scares the bejeepers out of ya. Sadly, that seems to be a characteristic of the tire. The H666 on my 16XS.LR can be a devil. And you are correct, wider tires tend to do it more and there's some physics reasons that I don't fully understand. You'll sort of have to experiment with tire pressure and see if it makes any difference. I have settled on 25 psi and learned to ride through the train tracking (ride loose so the wheel can veer sideways without dragging your center of gravity with it), but mostly learned to avoid seams in the road. But that raised stuff they use for marking crosswalks will get me every time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Funky said: personally get the "riding on knife edge" feeling, if i go over 30psi.. I ride 28psi. Also i get many wobbles if i go over 30psi, under - no wobbles at all. Is this still true with your recently installed scooter tire? Also at over 30 psi, are your wobbles oscillating side-to-side (roll) or twisting in nature (yaw) or both? Edited July 9, 2022 by techyiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saboteur_ZA Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 2 hours ago, OldFartRides said: Could try a free spin. Be careful. W.W. Just put out a trouble shooting vid someone linked to. https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/1019-the-video-thread/page/691/ I haven’t watched it. Best, Thanks! Just watched it, quite helpful. I agree the free spin would be good idea to see if tire is aligned. Not looking forward to it, as I don't have a stand for it... I can see this may go wrong! But also puzzled at how easily he could spin his wheel, when I do that, I feel resistance, doesn't just spin easily... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 32 minutes ago, techyiam said: Is this still true with your recently installed scooter tire? Also at over 30 psi, are your wobbles oscillating side-to-side (roll) or twisting in nature (yaw) or both? Coming from CST C-1488 to K66 80/80-14 i didn't notice much difference. (Sure it felt little bit more "nimble", but over time that feeling went away.) Wobbles - (Like leaning whole euc left/right very, VERY hard. You keep going straight just wheel leans left/right almost scraping pedals.) Doh i noticed the K66 tire the wobbles where harder to control - because 2x weight tire. (The wobbles happened first 2-3 days - till i got used to new tire.) I managed to break true all my wobbles.. Now i don't even think about them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saboteur_ZA Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Funky said: Maybe you got scared after those falls and now don't "trust" the wheel. And everything is in your mind. Uh... thank you for that?! Before I seek counselling though, I will consider your other points, which are pretty sound! I do think calibrating the wheel makes sense, especially after those falls. And I did add more air, but only because the tire was definitely in need. With the special valve adapter, I find it kind of hard to get accurate psi reading... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) If we are talking about alignment problems. Fastest way to check if tire is "centered" check videos. By holding euc pedals and letting it speed up (Free spin) You can make sure that tire is centered. If it doesn't shake left/right at higher speed - everything is fine. If it starts to shake - tire needs centering. Free spin test: His wheel isn't shaking left/right at high speed = centered tire. How to check if tire is "centered" Edited July 9, 2022 by Funky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saboteur_ZA Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Tawpie said: The train tracking/tram lining is a real hoot, right? Scares the bejeepers out of ya. Yes, you really do understand, I can tell! I suppose having more experience helps to handle this, but it has knocked my confidence quite a bit. In any case, I was wanting a more powerful wheel, this may hasten that next purchase... But I do want to be able to enjoy riding this wheel again, so I will try all the suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted July 9, 2022 Share Posted July 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tawpie said: The train tracking/tram lining is a real hoot, right? Scares the bejeepers out of ya. I only have noticed it little bit while riding brick roads. (The ones that have those straight going groves.) Other than that - i never had that problem. So i'm kinda clueless how it feels. Edited July 9, 2022 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saboteur_ZA Posted July 9, 2022 Author Share Posted July 9, 2022 9 minutes ago, Funky said: I only have noticed it little bit while riding brick roads. (The ones that have those straight going groves.) Other than that - i never had that problem. So i'm kinda clueless how it feels. Yes, exactly the kind of paving that was giving me issues. Those grooves... I tried going faster over the paving, thought it might help... yet another of my really bad ideas - nearly got hurled off my wheel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Funky said: Coming from CST C-1488 to K66 80/80-14 i didn't notice much difference. (Sure it felt little bit more "nimble", but over time that feeling went away.) Wobbles - (Like leaning whole euc left/right very, VERY hard. You keep going straight just wheel leans left/right almost scraping pedals.) Doh i noticed the K66 tire the wobbles where harder to control - because 2x weight tire. (The wobbles happened first 2-3 days - till i got used to new tire.) I managed to break true all my wobbles.. Now i don't even think about them. Thanks. I didn't know that scooter tires don't neccesarily help with wobbles. It looks like I got real lucky with my scooter tire on my V12 then. I replaced the stock CST-1488 tire with a Julier, tube-type scooter tire (2.75-12, 16x3.0). After inflation, it is only about 2.6" wide on the V12. The V12 went from good to excellent. It went from basically no wobbles to basically no hint of wobbles. I experimented with 30, 25, 20, and 15 psi, and settled on 20 psi. After the tire change, although the ride became overall stiffer, it gave me a sense of significantly better feeling of control, especially while traversing bumpy side roads at a higher speeds, but mainly under 45 km/h. Even more so in the rain. I don't have to be so mindful of bumps anymore. I basically lost interest in getting a Sherman or something equivalent for more stability. My replacement driver board arrived shortly after that. I swapped out the driver board for the new replacement one we all got from Inmotion for our V12's. What a pleasant surprise. Inmotion didn't just gave us a warrant replacement, I dare say it's more like an upgrade. The perceived quality seemed to have moved upscale, even more premium. The wheel seemed be more refined, smoother in power delivery and general feel. In terms of stability, I feel I can do no wrong. 60 km/h is very calm. There is no way I would replace it now with another non-suspension wheel for stability. I am super happy with its stability and I have a very agile wheel at the same time. It went from feeling like it is on a knife's edge to now. What a transformation. Edited July 10, 2022 by techyiam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Saboteur_ZA said: Yes, exactly the kind of paving that was giving me issues. Those grooves... I tried going faster over the paving, thought it might help... yet another of my really bad ideas - nearly got hurled off my wheel! Dam i have even less ridden than you and i don't notice it almost anymore. First month i noticed that wheel was "kinda" pusing left/right in those grooves. I got a tip if you wanna ride faster on these "bricks" Try going like this ~~~~~ zig-zag over the grooves. Then wheel won't train track/tram line. Because you are riding "over" the grooves not "in" them. Have you noticed even when you cruise at 30-40kph speeds, if you do ~~~~ even little bit. Riding comes so easy.. Compared going in straight line. Also if you ~~~~ little bit, you have less of a chance to get "wobbles". I have noticed the wheel "wants" to start wobbling more, if i go straight. If i i'm doing ~~~~~ the zig-zagging even little bit, i don't feel that wheel wants to start wobbling. But i don't get the wobbles even if i go straight now. It was good tip when i still had "problems" riding. Edited July 10, 2022 by Funky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, techyiam said: Thanks. I didn't know that scooter tires don't neccesarily help with wobbles. It looks like I got real lucky with my scooter tire on my V12 then. I replaced the stock CST-1488 tire with a Julier, tube-type scooter tire (2.75-12, 16x3.0). After inflation, it is only about 2.6" wide on the V12. The V12 went from good to excellent. It went from basically no wobbles to basically no hint of wobbles. I experimented with 30, 25, 20, and 15 psi, and settled on 20 psi. After the tire change, although the ride became overall stiffer, it gave me a sense of significantly better feeling of control, especially while traversing bumpy side roads at a higher speeds, but mainly under 45 km/h. Even more so in the rain. I don't have to be so mindful of bumps anymore. I basically lost interest in getting a Sherman or something equivalent for more stability. My replacement driver board arrived shortly after that. I swapped out the driver board for the new replacement one we all got from Inmotion for our V12's. What a pleasant surprise. Inmotion didn't just gave us a warrant replacement, I dare say it's more like an upgrade. The perceived quality seemed to have moved upscale, even more premium. The wheel seemed be more refined, smoother in power delivery and general feel. In terms of stability, I feel I can do no wrong. 60 km/h is very calm. There is no way I would replace it now with another non-suspension wheel for stability. I am super happy with its stability and I have a very agile wheel at the same time. It went from feeling like it is on a knife's edge to now. What a transformation. I think the wobbles was worse in K66 tire, because it's "tubeless" meaning it's 2x the weight of 1488 tire. More weight - more "gyro" effect at speed. - worse wobble. Like i said after week or so i got used to the new tire. (Maybe the winter 3 month break - when i stopped riding didn't help. Maybe that's why it felt little bit worse at beginning.) But after time, yes i would also say that the "new" tire is much better. It has more grip overall. And little bit bigger diameter - more rim protection. Overall more robust tire - what i wanted. I also weight 127kg the 1488 tire has "90" kg max load. 127kg + 25kg wheel that's 152kg - 62kg over the "limit" The K66 has ~155kg load index, which is great. I had to trim it doh.. As 18xl wheel well is ~72mm. Sad that there isn't any 18x3" tire, that is close to 72-75mm width. Edited July 10, 2022 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magman116 Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 I have a 16X with the H666 tire running at 28 PSI and love how it rides. Very smooth and no train tracking. I'm 180 lbs and 6ft tall. No issues at all with this tire. When experimenting with pressure I went up to 45psi and down to 20 psi and settled on 28psi. Anything above 35psi and it was very sensitive. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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