2 Noobs- first try

[KayakerChuck]

A few days ago I bought a used 16x.   I've only been able to rock back & forth a bit in my shop- no really attempt at anything other than getting comfortable standing on it & gently rolling around while holding onto things for support.  Today I had a bit of time, so off to the local tennis court.

Sheila & I watched several videos about learning EUC.  She was NOT impressed, but agreed to be my mobile support.  I donned my full motorcycle gear.  I found rolling around holding on to her shoulder to be mostly easy.  As long as I could not think about it.  Thinking = bad.  (Both of us mentor kayaking skills like rolling.  We are the ones who say "Turn your kayak over, get comfortable underwater, and RELAX.  Thinking doesn't help." As if any beginner can relax while hanging upside-down under water.  Still, that's what it takes.) 

After about 10 minutes, I was ready to try solo flight.  I got in a few 20' ish rides, dropped the wheel several times, and had no crashes or falls.  I'll call that success for a first try.

Sheila even tried, and did about as well as I.  With a few hoots and big smiles.  There might be hope! 

[Tawpie]

My #1 tip: look where you want to go, do NOT LOOK DOWN! For the most part, down isn't where you want to end up...

Horray! Keep after it though, short (30 min) sessions with sleep in between. In a week or two this'll be one of the best purchases you've made in a while... but during that first bit of time, it'll feel like it's absolutely hands down the worst.

[KayakerChuck]

Thanks Tawpie!

Yup, I teach "look where you want to go", but knowing & doing are different- lol

I agree with the small bites & short sessions.  Especially since last week was a bit too much of carrying heavy things up & down ladders.  My legs (OK, all of me) are not 20 anymore.  

 

[Hellkitten]

Sounds like you’re well on your way! I’m fairly new to this as well, it took a good week or so for me to feel semi comfortable. I found practicing till I was tired or frustrated was the best way. Each day you’ll see progress and at some point you will be riding around past the steep learning curve. It’s the closest thing to flying and a ton of fun.  Congrats on your journey. Looking forward to your progress. 

[rcgldr]

Old guy here (almost 70). I watched how to ride EUC videos on youtube before deciding to buy a V8F and continued watching while waiting for the V8F to arrive. The videos stated what has already been mentioned here, look straight ahead, not down, which will help with balance, and also steer into fall for balance. Two of the videos recommended learning to ride using support to mount and launch before learning to free mount (without support), so when you do try free mount, you already know how to ride. 

For some beginners, including me, arm flailing, flail left to steer right and vice versa, to steer into direction of fall and to control direction of the EUC is a way to ride at slower speeds that is almost instinctive.   Example of this  by a 3 year old kid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9YiHu5HJ6o

I was able to do laps around a tennis court on my first try with arm flailing. My wife took a video from my second day (about 45 minutes total time at this point), where I pretty much look like that 3 year old kid. The video was helpful in that I didn't realize I was hunched over that much, and I straightened up after seeing that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPyy84EThmM

Since I could ride using arm flailing, I moved to a long straight private street with two trash bin enclosures about 500 feet apart, that I could use for mount and launch. I felt more comfortable going a bit faster than in the confined space of the tennis court. At around 6 to 8 mph, I found that my V8F became stable and I didn't have to focus on balance. I worked on leaning forwards | backwards for speed control which was instinctive for me. I then worked on tilt steering, moving inside foot down, outside foot up, to see how the V8F would respond to tilt inputs. This was not intuitive since tilt steering response is not linear, and depends on speed, weight, turning radius, ... . I worked on weaving side to side to get used to tilt steering, and then large radius turns. I used this next video as a guide, since the girl is almost motionless (no arm flailing, no body twisting, no carving) other than body leaning and tilting her S18. Due to speed, weight, turning radius, she leans more than she tilts her S18. I tried to emulate the weaving she does near the end of the video when first experimenting with tilt steering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hWMwK3Cfs0

Once I was able to ride and turn, I learned how to free mount, my only time on a grass field. Since I knew how to ride, I just had to step a couple of times and hop on. This was mostly a trust issue. Now that I could free mount, I moved to a long and wide pathway with a half circle path on side at a nearby park. My wife took a video on day 10:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keDvRMScO1g

To weave or turn, depending on speed and turning radius, I had to estimate how much to body lean and how much to tilt the V8F, making corrections as needed. I also practiced leaning, then tilting enough to quickly return to vertical for balance practice. Over time, I was getting initial lean and tilt inputs better and making fewer and smaller corrections. I switched to a bike trail with lots of turns, and mild declines and inclines. Somewhere between 40 and 100 miles, tilt steering transitioned into a mostly reflexive response.

Slow speed tight turns using tilt steering without yaw steering was yet another learning process for me, and it took 3 sessions to reduce 12 foot circles down to 8 foot circles.

Edited December 6, 2021 by rcgldr

[.....]

Don't think, just ride...

[Scottie]

And think about protecting your ankles. The pedals can bite a Noob's ankles hard ... been there and got the T shirt! 

Even with that, those 1st few weeks are the best. The learning curve is steep, but if you keep at it you will be climbing right up that curve which is the most satisfying part. There is nothing like learning a new motor skill. The exhilaration of the 1st semi controlled ride is really something! 

I started on a 16X also, in January. I had to work against the weather but was still rolling fairly good by March.

 

[Scottie]

@KayakerChuck Since you are new to the 16X, here is something else to be aware of with the 16X. You may see a red light glowing through the case near the top after charging. I am not sure if it is firmware based or a universal King Song thing.

[KayakerChuck]

Wow- thanks for all the info!

I work alone, so I can sneak 5 minutes or so every hour or two to play with the wheel in my shop.  I'm gaining comfort on the thing, and occasionally making it the ENTIRE 20' to the other end- lol.  (I'm a former Windsurfing instructor- I'm weird enough to like steep learning curves.)

Foot gear- Thanks for the reminder.  I've been wearing either my big work boots or my adventure m/c boots.  If I'm outside, I've been wearing my full m/c gear+ wrist guards.  I own 3 sets of gear.  If I get hurt while not wearing it I'll be able to live with the pain, but not with the feeling of being dumb ;-)  

I'll have to look for the red light.  She's pretty well wrapped in carpet for now, so I'll never see it unless I specifically look.

 

 

[RayRay]

As a kayaker, you're going to want to lean on things and try to reach out to maintain balance. (This can be a crutch.) 

Instead, imagine you're in calm water lifting your paddle evenly (like a tightrope walker's pole) to shift weight.

If that doesn't work, forget about everything and just ride ahead until something clicks in your brain. (You'll hear it.)

 

[Tawpie]

12 hours ago, Scottie said:

You may see a red light glowing through the case near the top after charging. I am not sure if it is firmware based or a universal King Song thing.

It can be taken as a sign that the wheel needs to be power cycled to avoid "phantom drain"? KS powers up the entire control board during charging and early firmware didn't bother to turn it off when the charger was disconnected. More recent firmware seems to have solved this and the control board does shut down (as indicated by no leds and an audible 'thump' from the speakers). if you're on iOS get the "SoftTuner" app from Kingsong and log in as "guest" and you'll be able to easily up and downgrade the firmware. I read somewhere that you should do firmware changes with the wheel on its side, but I've done them with it vertical and haven't had any issues. And I don't let the phone go to sleep/lockscreen while the update is in progress... I keep tapping it impatiently. For best results, you should be on v2.02 or higher—I'm not sure where they fixed the phantom drain though, the release notes are in chinglish and I'm quite out of practice with that dialect.

Be aware that there is an issue with the last batch of KS firmware 2.09 and 2.10—if you like to lock your wheel with a password, evidently only the KS app can unlock it. DarknessBot and EUCWorld can't. I haven't confirmed that, but it's something to be aware of if you use a password. I don't use a password and I don't lock my wheel so I remain blissfully unaware of this problem!

Edited December 8, 2021 by Tawpie

[Scottie]

14 hours ago, RayRay said:

forget about everything and just ride ahead until something clicks in your brain. (You'll hear it.)

Love that!

[KayakerChuck]

It's been a few days of short, 5 minute practice sessions in my shop.  As RayRay said, I'm holding on to things for support.  Probably good for initial learning, but it is a crutch.

No more.

Today I was able to sneak a bit of play time at the marina- in an open parking lot.  Lots of short, 15-30' rides, a few in the 200' range.  I can almost feel the little marbles rattling around my head falling into place.  

Fun stuff!

[rcgldr]

13 minutes ago, KayakerChuck said:

open parking lot.  Lots of short, 15-30' rides, a few in the 200' range.  I can almost feel the little marbles rattling around my head falling into place.  

As I posted earlier, once you feel comfortable enough and have enough room (like that parking lot) to go a bit faster, you'll find that the 16x becomes mostly self-stable, and you won't have to do much for balance to travel in a straight line. In my case with my V8F, this was around 6 to 8 mph. I don't know what the stable speed is for you on the 16x. This stable speed is where it clicks for most beginners. (Some beginners learn arm flailing first for balance at slower speed, instead of tilt steering first).

[Hellkitten]

Sounds like you’re well on your way! Listen to @rcgldr he gave me some great guidance in my wobbly stage. Lol. It’s really about practicing and letting your body and brain figure things out. I found I was over compensating in the beginning causing me to over lean, there’s a lot of subtlety that is hard to grasp without putting in the time. I’d say you’re not far from things falling into place. 

[RayRay]

Kayakers have good balance... 

You'll be riding all over the place before knowing what to do with your legs & feet; (e.g. mounting/dismounting).

A little bend in the knee is recommended at this point (as you pick up speed and maybe hit a few bumps). 

Just be subconsciously aware that your legs are shock absorbers. 

[KayakerChuck]

Yesterday I was able to practice a bit.  I had a few rides of about 400 yards.

Today I went to a local park with a much bigger and very lonely parking lot.  First attempt was about 400 yards.  My second ride was about 1.5 miles!  Just mowing the lawn, with gentle figure 8's.  I was trying to keep my speed about 8mph, give or take.  Faster is easy, but if it's easy I'm not learning as much, right?

After 1.5 miles, my legs were getting tired.  I've not yet learned finesse.  I came to a stop, and had my first attempt at a start without using something for support.  My first try was successful.

I quit on a high note.

:-)

[Paul A]

Maybe try having ankles positioned above the center of the pedals.  This will align the body with the center of the wheel. Toes may protrude over front of pedals but that is ok. 

 

Might help to lessen legs getting tired.

[KayakerChuck]

Yesterday, about an inch of frozen slop fell from the sky, so I did responsible work stuff.  Yuck.

Today I was able to go to the park & play a bit.

I got in some good practice at various speeds up to about 10 mph.  Anything above 8mph seems easy, so I'm trying to keep things between about 6 and 10 mph.  I had what I'll call a low speed death wobble, which I'm pretty sure is caused by me over compensating my lean.  On a motorcycle, I'd throttle out of it.  Is this appropriate on a wheel?  I just abandoned ship & ran it out.  Running out is a solution, but probably not the best.

Other than my first start, I didn't use any assistance for getting going.  My success rate for an kick start seems to be about 30%, which I'm happy with, for now.  I can practice starts inside on nasty days.

I didn't plan to be out long and only had my light work gloves to keep my hands warm.  Total fail- my hands froze.  The good thing was when my hands got cold, I held them together.  It took me a few moments to realize I was no longer waving my arms for balance.  Win.  Cold hands, but I'll take a win ;-)

No issues with leg fatigue today.

~3.5 miles today.  I'll dress warmer next time.  

[Tawpie]

56 minutes ago, KayakerChuck said:

I just abandoned ship & ran it out.  Running out is a solution, but probably not the best.

That's the number 1 reason I liked learning on my 16X... bailing and letting the wheel fend for itself is a no brainer and the wheel doesn't seem to mind at all. Running it out is always a good idea—get out while you can still avoid actually falling down. Low speed is important to practice, but don't get too hung up on it as it can be frustrating. The more miles you ride, your legs, feet, ankles and all the autonomic stuff gets trained and slow gets easier by default. I do recommend practicing slow—on the 16X being able to cruise at slow walking speed is about as slow as you'll need to be 'good' at... until you start wanting to go backwards and that's a different ballgame best handled very slowly (running something out backwards doesn't happen—you whack the back of your head on the pavement). If you really want to improve slow speed skill quickly, go off the pavement. Guaranteed accelerated learning, and I've no idea why.

1 hour ago, KayakerChuck said:

only had my light work gloves to keep my hands warm.  Total fail- my hands froze.

I wear ice fishing mittens under my wrist guards. Warmer than gloves but convertible so you can still use your phone (after you stop of course. Nobody would ever consider texting and riding... would they?)

As you do speed up, you will encounter speed wobbles and these must be respected... inch your speed up slowly, back off when the wobble starts. They seem to have something to do with rider technique (feet position, weight distribution, posture, etc. etc.) but for most part the stuff you don't directly control with your brain will eventually learn how to make them not happen. Patience and miles are the best answer for speed wobbles. I have no idea what I'm doing different other that I had them, kept gently pushing the envelope, and they quit happening.

It sure sounds like you're coming along nicely and will have something to do when the wind won't blow.

[KayakerChuck]

another occasional update-

I've been practicing as I can, usually just about 15 minutes sessions, hopefully twice/day.  I hit 30 miles on the odometer today, and like a switch, I relaxed.  It hit me when my phone rang and I pulled it from my pocket, saw it was an unknown number, then stuffed the phone back in my pocket.  It never crossed my mind that I was riding around the neighborhood and should maybe stop first.  I had forgotten all about the mechanics of riding.  Fun!

I'm gently pushing the envelope and am pretty confident starting, stopping, & turning at various speeds up to about 15-17 mph.

I've had two wipeouts- both full Superman!  Both at about 2 mph.  The first one was a couple weeks ago and was 100% target fixation.  "Don't hit the curb.  Don't hit the curb. Don't hit the curb"  I side swiped the curb.  Duh!  Knowing better & doing better are different :-)     Second Superman was today.  I was playing on a piece of road in poor condition to get accustomed to our typical Michigan roads/trails.  Full splat- lol.  I'm hoping all the years I spent falling off of things when I was younger & bouncier help me to land more gently now that I'm older & crunchier.  Full moto gear + wrist guards, too.

 

[.....]

26 minutes ago, KayakerChuck said:

another occasional update-

I've been practicing as I can, usually just about 15 minutes sessions, hopefully twice/day.  I hit 30 miles on the odometer today, and like a switch, I relaxed.  It hit me when my phone rang and I pulled it from my pocket, saw it was an unknown number, then stuffed the phone back in my pocket.  It never crossed my mind that I was riding around the neighborhood and should maybe stop first.  I had forgotten all about the mechanics of riding.  Fun!

 

 

and thus it begins.....    Glad you're getting the hang of it. Careful of complaceny.

2mph superman? Can he fly that slowly. Get your feet under you bro!

Edited December 31, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[RayRay]

On 12/31/2021 at 3:09 PM, KayakerChuck said:

I've had two wipeouts- both full Superman! 

 

Been there...

Spoiler

...done that!

 

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by RayRay