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Runaway wheel


Aztek

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I picked the wheel up today, while switched on, and suddenly it started turning at full speed.

I tried to tilt it back, retract the handle, but it continued turning wildly. Tried to switch it off with no luck.

Put it on the ground and almost made the tire burn in flames.

Finally I dropped it on the side and it stopped.

Euc world showed 70 km/h max speed. No tilt back. No safety stopping.

Seems rather unusual to me.

Anyone had this experience?

Edited by Aztek
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  • Aztek changed the title to Runaway wheel

holy crap. yeah, that is not normal behavior. You should be able to lift it and it should spin up to a max level and beep. THEN it will stop on its own, just as it did on its side. Actually, if the trolley lift sensor works, it shouldnt spin at all, but they can be iffy sometimes.  I've never had that happen on any of mine. Is it a new wheel? Can you power it up on its side and connect eucw or darkness bot to it?

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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7 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

should spin up to a max level and beep.

It beeped all the time but didn't stop.

 

7 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Is it a new wheel? Can you power it up on its side and connect eucw or darkness bot to it?

Yes it is new. I ride it for just a month - 100 kms.

I suppose I can. What should I check then?

Edited by Aztek
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38 minutes ago, Aztek said:

It beeped all the time but didn't stop.

 

Yes it is new. I ride it for just a month - 100 kms.

I suppose I can. What should I check then?

if you've had it for a month without this problem and its just NOW happening, its more than likely in need of service. Locksong used to have a speed limit that would raise once you reacehd certain mileage, perhaps its related to that?  I would use eucw and check ALL the speed settings and see if the wheel responds. The firmware has a max speed that you cant turn off, so i fear the app speed settings wont change your issue. You can also update the wheel firmware thru eucw and hope that a reset gets it back to good. I would suspect its a software, firmware glitch, but im just tossing ideas here. If you can turn it on and recalibrate it too, that wont hurt. Again, these are simple maintenance and update suggestions. Please take no offense if none of it helps.

 

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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Actually it is isolated case.

I suppose some glitch.

After that, I was able to lift it without problem and it behaves normally.

The speed limit is in place.

I suppose when it started turning, it attempted to tilt back, which in the case (being in the air) just resulted in maximum speed.

Edited by Aztek
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18 minutes ago, Aztek said:

Actually it is isolated case.

I suppose some glitch.

After that, I was able to lift it without problem and it behaves normally.

The speed limit is in place.

I suppose when it started turning, it attempted to tilt back, which in the case (being in the air) just resulted in maximum speed.

Good to hear, tho ANY glitch does make one a little nervous I'm sure. So you can pick it up now and it reaches max speed, beeps and stops itself, as intended?

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17 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

So you can pick it up now and it reaches max speed, beeps and stops itself, as intended?

I pick it up and it stays nice and calm :)

The good to know is that laid on the side cuts the motor anytime.

I suppose a glitch in the pick up disengagement switch.

It is something to be nervous about though: it is quite uncomfortable to hold in the air wildly spinning 21 kg wheel :D

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Sounds like the lift detection didn’t activate for whatever reason and the EUC went free spin which is normal. It won’t accept power button because it believes you are riding it. After reaching full no load speed it gives up and stops.

The lift sensor activating haven’t been discussed in a while because it works much better than before, but still; it’s best to consider it a two part action: Pull the handle to make sure it beeps, then lift the EUC. Reverse when putting down: push handle to confirm beeps.

Edited by null
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3 minutes ago, null said:

After reaching full no load speed it gives up and stops.

Except that it didn't. I was holding it for a minute or so and didn't observe any sign of slowing.

 

3 minutes ago, null said:

it’s best to consider it a two part action: Pull the handle to make sure it beeps, then lift the EUC. Reverse when putting down: push handle to confirm beeps.

Edited just now by null

That's a good idea. Thanks for suggesting this!

I'll do it this way from now on.

Edited by Aztek
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11 minutes ago, Aztek said:

Except that it didn't. I was holding it for a minute or so and didn't observe any sign of slowing

Possibly you held it just level enough for it not reaching full speed at first (?) you can modulate the speed of a lifted EUC by tilting it slightly.. IDK, just mentioning as it’s the only explanation I can see. Could be a bug but that is so rare I never heard of such an event ever..

Tilting it is a good backup as @ShanesPlanet mentioned :)

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47 minutes ago, Aztek said:

Except that it didn't. I was holding it for a minute or so and didn't observe any sign of slowing.

The most important thing: did the wheel reach its maximum shutdown speed - and the CPU failed for some reason to trigger its shutdown routine.  Personally, I would be afraid to ride a wheel whose firmware has bugs

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There are two things at play here. 1 the lift sensor. If it doesnt beep when you pick it up while NOT moving, the lift sensor didnt disengage the motor. It happens and you have to learn to come to complete stop before lifting. That isnt something I worry about much. The other more serious complaint, is having to do with top speed cutout. Lift it while its barely rolling (to ensure lift sensor doesnt stop it) and lean it back or forwards until it spin freely. Keep leaning it a bit and it should eventually beep. You neednt lean far, just dont lean it the other way or level. Hold it tightly, but its not a big deal. Try it with an 80lbs 60mph sherman! If you simply cannot get it to max out and stop itself, tilt it on its side by lifting on the OUTTER edge of the pedal. Keep your hands free of the rim. DO NOT set it down on the tire while moving.

Let us know what you find. Lift sensor not activating is no big deal. Top speed cutoff is a safety issue.

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1 hour ago, Mark13i said:

The most important thing: did the wheel reach its maximum shutdown speed - and the CPU failed for some reason to trigger its shutdown routine.  Personally, I would be afraid to ride a wheel whose firmware has bugs

At some point it did (app showing 70Km/h), doesn't mean top speed was there all along. It could have been at the end, triggering the power off. The minute might also have been twenty long seconds.. To me this is much more likely (EUC took a while to speed up due to angle) than an undiscovered FW bug.

 

1 hour ago, Mark13i said:

Were you braking (somehow) not allowing the wheel to reach its maximum speed?

You can hold back acceleration by keeping the EUC close to level. Easy to test on a lightweight wheel.

 

28 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Top speed cutoff is a safety issue.

Yes, normal behaviour being cutting.
If it doesn't, even after beeps / tiltback then it is suspicious. But I really doubt it is the issue here as it stopped in the end for OP. Try the test @ShanesPlanet described @Aztek , it will show if the behavior is normal. To make sure it spins up you can also put it on a stand or deactivate the lift sensor.

 

Edited by null
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12 minutes ago, null said:

At some point it did (app showing 70Km/h), doesn't mean top speed was there all along. It could have been at the end, triggering the power off. The minute might also have been twenty long seconds.. To me this is much more likely (EUC took a while to speed up due to angle) than an undiscovered FW bug

 

I think so too, but I prefer to be sure that's why I ask

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29 minutes ago, Mark13i said:
46 minutes ago, null said:

At some point it did (app showing 70Km/h), doesn't mean top speed was there all along. It could have been at the end, triggering the power off. The minute might also have been twenty long seconds.. To me this is much more likely (EUC took a while to speed up due to angle) than an undiscovered FW bug

 

Expand  

I think so too, but I prefer to be sure that's why I ask

Yes it must have reached max speed - eucw saying 70 km/h.

Also, it was beeping.

I believe 5 beeps - beep, pause, beep, beep, beep, beep.

It makes sense it should not disengage if lifted with rolling wheel. Unfortunately I can't say this was the case.

I'll test tomorrow on the grass so I can safely throw it on the side if it doesn't stop again.

Edited by Aztek
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One hand on the handle and the other on the outer edge of pedal hanger. If you keep your fingers in check, you should be able to lift it, tilt it and set it down  sideways pretty easily. If you lift from the hanger and use the hand on the trolley to merely stabilize, the lift sensor wont engage. The 5 beeps at max speed is what its supposed to do. DId it now slow to a stop once it did that?

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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18 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Let us know what you find. Lift sensor not activating is no big deal. Top speed cutoff is a safety issue

It starts spinning at max speed beeping constantly with no pauses and doesn't seem to stop by itself.

When tilted hard in the other direction (longitudinal) it stops.

The max speed limit I've set is 35 km/h and it reaches around 70 this way.

I think a software change is due here: I don't see why the wheel should disable the disengagement switch when lifted by the handle while the wheel is turning. If you jump you don't hold and lift it by the handle.

It would be safer if the switch kills the motor each time the wheel is lifted of the ground by the handle, spinning or not.

Edited by Aztek
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1 hour ago, Aztek said:

It starts spinning at max speed beeping constantly with no pauses and doesn't seem to stop by itself.

When tilted hard in the other direction (longitudinal) it stops.

The max speed limit I've set is 35 km/h and it reaches around 70 this way.

I think a software change is due here: I don't see why the wheel should disable the disengagement switch when lifted by the handle while the wheel is turning. If you jump you don't hold and lift it by the handle.

It would be safer if the switch kills the motor each time the wheel is lifted of the ground by the handle, spinning or not.

Yeah, its not operating properly if it doesnt stop itself. Sounds rideable but heed the beeps. Did it beep at 35km/h even tho it kept spinning up to 70 w/o stopping? I'd carefully ride it a bit and try to find an ios device. Seba will be around soon, he's a really reliable chap! I'm betting your fw is just too old for eucw to properly connect in its entirety. You may be stuck using softuner or the KS snafu of an app until you update properly. If you can wait a day or two, I'd wait on seba or some other genius around here to help. It IS good that it stops when you tilt it back, means the gyro is working. Can you set the alarm and tiltback really low to see if it engages while riding? I rarely ever hit tiltback anymore, I've learned to not ignore speed beeps.

There is NO WAY it would be safer if the lift handle could shut off the motor while moving. Trust me on this one... YOU DO NOT want ANYTHING to be able to simply disengage the motor in motion. They call that the dreaded cut-out. If i was trucking along at 25mph(40kmh) and the lift sensor farted or a good bump engaged it, I could easily lose a jaw or perhaps tumble off a mountain. Okay, it could go better than that, but not by much. It's a VERY valid reason the power button and lift sensor are ignored while in motion. Its much better for a trolley to be finicky and NOT activate, than a trolley to be finicky and activate. Fwiw, I've been known to lift my trolley handle mid point while riding. My droid device is strapped to it. If i were in an emergency stop and coming up short as I headed for a kid or traffic, I'd be likely to grab the handle and yank back at my own peril. It sounds much more fun than it would be. :D

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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17 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I'm betting your fw is just too old for eucw to properly connect in its entirety

It is with the latest 2.07 firmware.

 

19 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

It's a VERY valid reason the power button and lift sensor is ignored while in motion.

I see your point is valid.

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29 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Fwiw, I've been known to lift my trolley handle mid point while riding. My droid device is strapped to it. If i were in an emergency stop and coming up short as I headed for a kid or traffic, I'd be likely to grab the handle and yank back at my own peril. It sounds much more fun than it would be. :D

Very interesting. My calls to many insurance companies has ended with "no secondary/emergency brake on your device..." 

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14 minutes ago, gon2fast said:

Very interesting. My calls to many insurance companies has ended with "no secondary/emergency brake on your device..." 

You must not work in advertising or sales. Everyone knows that the 'truth' nowadays is lenient and no foul when you choose wording carefully. I have a 3rd emergency brake too. Its called... BAIL!!!:roflmao:

27 minutes ago, Aztek said:

It is with the latest 2.07 firmware.

Oh, ok. So your wheel DID update to the newest? If that's the case and eucw shows you're running 2.07, I am at a total loss. Don't fret, Im part of the lowest common denominator here for intelligence. Im sure someone will help you get it sorted soon.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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2 hours ago, Aztek said:

It starts spinning at max speed beeping constantly with no pauses and doesn't seem to stop by itself.

When tilted hard in the other direction (longitudinal) it stops.

The max speed limit I've set is 35 km/h and it reaches around 70 this way.

I think a software change is due here: I don't see why the wheel should disable the disengagement switch when lifted by the handle while the wheel is turning. If you jump you don't hold and lift it by the handle.

It would be safer if the switch kills the motor each time the wheel is lifted of the ground by the handle, spinning or not.

Maybe it would be best if you write us the value of the maximum speed (as per this thread):

Maybe your wheel is not reaching its maximum speed for some reason

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