Runaway wheel

[Aztek]

I picked the wheel up today, while switched on, and suddenly it started turning at full speed.

I tried to tilt it back, retract the handle, but it continued turning wildly. Tried to switch it off with no luck.

Put it on the ground and almost made the tire burn in flames.

Finally I dropped it on the side and it stopped.

Euc world showed 70 km/h max speed. No tilt back. No safety stopping.

Seems rather unusual to me.

Anyone had this experience?

Edited June 19, 2021 by Aztek

[.....]

holy crap. yeah, that is not normal behavior. You should be able to lift it and it should spin up to a max level and beep. THEN it will stop on its own, just as it did on its side. Actually, if the trolley lift sensor works, it shouldnt spin at all, but they can be iffy sometimes.  I've never had that happen on any of mine. Is it a new wheel? Can you power it up on its side and connect eucw or darkness bot to it?

Edited June 19, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Aztek]

7 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

should spin up to a max level and beep.

It beeped all the time but didn't stop.

 

7 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Is it a new wheel? Can you power it up on its side and connect eucw or darkness bot to it?

Yes it is new. I ride it for just a month - 100 kms.

I suppose I can. What should I check then?

Edited June 19, 2021 by Aztek

[.....]

38 minutes ago, Aztek said:

It beeped all the time but didn't stop.

 

Yes it is new. I ride it for just a month - 100 kms.

I suppose I can. What should I check then?

if you've had it for a month without this problem and its just NOW happening, its more than likely in need of service. Locksong used to have a speed limit that would raise once you reacehd certain mileage, perhaps its related to that?  I would use eucw and check ALL the speed settings and see if the wheel responds. The firmware has a max speed that you cant turn off, so i fear the app speed settings wont change your issue. You can also update the wheel firmware thru eucw and hope that a reset gets it back to good. I would suspect its a software, firmware glitch, but im just tossing ideas here. If you can turn it on and recalibrate it too, that wont hurt. Again, these are simple maintenance and update suggestions. Please take no offense if none of it helps.

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Aztek]

Actually it is isolated case.

I suppose some glitch.

After that, I was able to lift it without problem and it behaves normally.

The speed limit is in place.

I suppose when it started turning, it attempted to tilt back, which in the case (being in the air) just resulted in maximum speed.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Aztek

[.....]

18 minutes ago, Aztek said:

Actually it is isolated case.

I suppose some glitch.

After that, I was able to lift it without problem and it behaves normally.

The speed limit is in place.

I suppose when it started turning, it attempted to tilt back, which in the case (being in the air) just resulted in maximum speed.

Good to hear, tho ANY glitch does make one a little nervous I'm sure. So you can pick it up now and it reaches max speed, beeps and stops itself, as intended?

[Aztek]

17 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

So you can pick it up now and it reaches max speed, beeps and stops itself, as intended?

I pick it up and it stays nice and calm

The good to know is that laid on the side cuts the motor anytime.

I suppose a glitch in the pick up disengagement switch.

It is something to be nervous about though: it is quite uncomfortable to hold in the air wildly spinning 21 kg wheel

[Aztek]

3 minutes ago, null said:

After reaching full no load speed it gives up and stops.

Except that it didn't. I was holding it for a minute or so and didn't observe any sign of slowing.

 

3 minutes ago, null said:

it’s best to consider it a two part action: Pull the handle to make sure it beeps, then lift the EUC. Reverse when putting down: push handle to confirm beeps.

Edited just now by null

That's a good idea. Thanks for suggesting this!

I'll do it this way from now on.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Aztek

[Mark13i]

47 minutes ago, Aztek said:

Except that it didn't. I was holding it for a minute or so and didn't observe any sign of slowing.

The most important thing: did the wheel reach its maximum shutdown speed - and the CPU failed for some reason to trigger its shutdown routine.  Personally, I would be afraid to ride a wheel whose firmware has bugs

[Mark13i]

Were you braking (somehow) not allowing the wheel to reach its maximum speed?

[bcarp]

4 hours ago, Aztek said:

I picked the wheel up today, while switched on, and suddenly it started turning at full speed

Was the wheel absolutely stationary when you picked it up? If the wheel was moving, then picking it up won't deactivate it. That's by design. You can imagine what would happen if you were riding along & pulled on the handle – you don't want the wheel deactivating if you're moving.

[.....]

There are two things at play here. 1 the lift sensor. If it doesnt beep when you pick it up while NOT moving, the lift sensor didnt disengage the motor. It happens and you have to learn to come to complete stop before lifting. That isnt something I worry about much. The other more serious complaint, is having to do with top speed cutout. Lift it while its barely rolling (to ensure lift sensor doesnt stop it) and lean it back or forwards until it spin freely. Keep leaning it a bit and it should eventually beep. You neednt lean far, just dont lean it the other way or level. Hold it tightly, but its not a big deal. Try it with an 80lbs 60mph sherman! If you simply cannot get it to max out and stop itself, tilt it on its side by lifting on the OUTTER edge of the pedal. Keep your hands free of the rim. DO NOT set it down on the tire while moving.

Let us know what you find. Lift sensor not activating is no big deal. Top speed cutoff is a safety issue.

[Mark13i]

12 minutes ago, null said:

At some point it did (app showing 70Km/h), doesn't mean top speed was there all along. It could have been at the end, triggering the power off. The minute might also have been twenty long seconds.. To me this is much more likely (EUC took a while to speed up due to angle) than an undiscovered FW bug

 

I think so too, but I prefer to be sure that's why I ask

[OldFartRides]

Yes, my 16s tends to spin up if I lift it while the wheel is (even barely) turning. One time I set it down while turning at full speed and burned a chip in the circuit board ($200). 

[Aztek]

29 minutes ago, Mark13i said:

46 minutes ago, null said:

At some point it did (app showing 70Km/h), doesn't mean top speed was there all along. It could have been at the end, triggering the power off. The minute might also have been twenty long seconds.. To me this is much more likely (EUC took a while to speed up due to angle) than an undiscovered FW bug

 

Expand  

I think so too, but I prefer to be sure that's why I ask

Yes it must have reached max speed - eucw saying 70 km/h.

Also, it was beeping.

I believe 5 beeps - beep, pause, beep, beep, beep, beep.

It makes sense it should not disengage if lifted with rolling wheel. Unfortunately I can't say this was the case.

I'll test tomorrow on the grass so I can safely throw it on the side if it doesn't stop again.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Aztek

[.....]

One hand on the handle and the other on the outer edge of pedal hanger. If you keep your fingers in check, you should be able to lift it, tilt it and set it down  sideways pretty easily. If you lift from the hanger and use the hand on the trolley to merely stabilize, the lift sensor wont engage. The 5 beeps at max speed is what its supposed to do. DId it now slow to a stop once it did that?

Edited June 20, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Aztek]

18 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Let us know what you find. Lift sensor not activating is no big deal. Top speed cutoff is a safety issue

It starts spinning at max speed beeping constantly with no pauses and doesn't seem to stop by itself.

When tilted hard in the other direction (longitudinal) it stops.

The max speed limit I've set is 35 km/h and it reaches around 70 this way.

I think a software change is due here: I don't see why the wheel should disable the disengagement switch when lifted by the handle while the wheel is turning. If you jump you don't hold and lift it by the handle.

It would be safer if the switch kills the motor each time the wheel is lifted of the ground by the handle, spinning or not.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Aztek

[.....]

1 hour ago, Aztek said:

It starts spinning at max speed beeping constantly with no pauses and doesn't seem to stop by itself.

When tilted hard in the other direction (longitudinal) it stops.

The max speed limit I've set is 35 km/h and it reaches around 70 this way.

I think a software change is due here: I don't see why the wheel should disable the disengagement switch when lifted by the handle while the wheel is turning. If you jump you don't hold and lift it by the handle.

It would be safer if the switch kills the motor each time the wheel is lifted of the ground by the handle, spinning or not.

Yeah, its not operating properly if it doesnt stop itself. Sounds rideable but heed the beeps. Did it beep at 35km/h even tho it kept spinning up to 70 w/o stopping? I'd carefully ride it a bit and try to find an ios device. Seba will be around soon, he's a really reliable chap! I'm betting your fw is just too old for eucw to properly connect in its entirety. You may be stuck using softuner or the KS snafu of an app until you update properly. If you can wait a day or two, I'd wait on seba or some other genius around here to help. It IS good that it stops when you tilt it back, means the gyro is working. Can you set the alarm and tiltback really low to see if it engages while riding? I rarely ever hit tiltback anymore, I've learned to not ignore speed beeps.

There is NO WAY it would be safer if the lift handle could shut off the motor while moving. Trust me on this one... YOU DO NOT want ANYTHING to be able to simply disengage the motor in motion. They call that the dreaded cut-out. If i was trucking along at 25mph(40kmh) and the lift sensor farted or a good bump engaged it, I could easily lose a jaw or perhaps tumble off a mountain. Okay, it could go better than that, but not by much. It's a VERY valid reason the power button and lift sensor are ignored while in motion. Its much better for a trolley to be finicky and NOT activate, than a trolley to be finicky and activate. Fwiw, I've been known to lift my trolley handle mid point while riding. My droid device is strapped to it. If i were in an emergency stop and coming up short as I headed for a kid or traffic, I'd be likely to grab the handle and yank back at my own peril. It sounds much more fun than it would be.

Edited June 20, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Aztek]

17 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I'm betting your fw is just too old for eucw to properly connect in its entirety

It is with the latest 2.07 firmware.

 

19 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

It's a VERY valid reason the power button and lift sensor is ignored while in motion.

I see your point is valid.

[gon2fast]

29 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Fwiw, I've been known to lift my trolley handle mid point while riding. My droid device is strapped to it. If i were in an emergency stop and coming up short as I headed for a kid or traffic, I'd be likely to grab the handle and yank back at my own peril. It sounds much more fun than it would be.

Very interesting. My calls to many insurance companies has ended with "no secondary/emergency brake on your device..." 

[.....]

14 minutes ago, gon2fast said:

Very interesting. My calls to many insurance companies has ended with "no secondary/emergency brake on your device..." 

You must not work in advertising or sales. Everyone knows that the 'truth' nowadays is lenient and no foul when you choose wording carefully. I have a 3rd emergency brake too. Its called... BAIL!!!

27 minutes ago, Aztek said:

It is with the latest 2.07 firmware.

Oh, ok. So your wheel DID update to the newest? If that's the case and eucw shows you're running 2.07, I am at a total loss. Don't fret, Im part of the lowest common denominator here for intelligence. Im sure someone will help you get it sorted soon.

Edited June 20, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Mark13i]

2 hours ago, Aztek said:

It starts spinning at max speed beeping constantly with no pauses and doesn't seem to stop by itself.

When tilted hard in the other direction (longitudinal) it stops.

The max speed limit I've set is 35 km/h and it reaches around 70 this way.

I think a software change is due here: I don't see why the wheel should disable the disengagement switch when lifted by the handle while the wheel is turning. If you jump you don't hold and lift it by the handle.

It would be safer if the switch kills the motor each time the wheel is lifted of the ground by the handle, spinning or not.

Maybe it would be best if you write us the value of the maximum speed (as per this thread):

Maybe your wheel is not reaching its maximum speed for some reason

[Aztek]

2 hours ago, Mark13i said:

Maybe it would be best if you write us the value of the maximum speed (as per this thread):

I have the log files.

KS 16xs technical specifications state: "Can decode to 45 km /h after riding 10 km" whatever this means...

Yesterday for about 90 seconds, the log file has registered over 67 km/h, more precisely variation between 67.01 km/h and 69.01 km/h.

Today for 30 seconds from 67.25 km/h to 68.26 km/h.

I don't know what really is the maximal speed of this wheel when held in the air i.e. with no other resistance than the tire and rim's mass inertia.

There's another point which is unclear - the wheel's temperature readings. They tend to gravitate around 0 and 10 degrees Celsius, which is clearly not true, as the ambient temperature is over 24 degrees these days. Any idea about this? (I worry that the wheel doesn't read its temperature correctly and might overheat.)

Edited June 20, 2021 by Aztek

[Aztek]

38 minutes ago, null said:

Could you accidentally have the wrong FW?

How could it be?!

I flashed it through some of the apps: the original kingsong, eucworld or wheellog or maybe the apple darkness bot... Yes, in retrospective, I see I should not have approached a fw update so lightly, like, here's a prompt asking update, let it roll, but alas...

I can't find of course any relevant info on the supposed current firmware by kingsong, because, well this is how it is. No serious info not credible one, not even in proper English.

However, the original kingsong app reports that it is the latest firmware.

Of course, it pops up a message that there's a new app version 3.6.18, which is nowhere to be found, cause in play store the version is 3.6.16. So yeah, no credible info from nowhere with this not so cheap Chinese devices. Frustrating. Annoying.

Anyways, I started to think this is normal behaviour - just do not pick the wheel fast from the ground while rolling, cause otherwise it works ok, I ride it with no problem.

Actually what I am worried about is the temperature sensor and the dealer trying to dismiss it as a nonessential minor problem.

Edited June 20, 2021 by Aztek

[Aztek]

20 minutes ago, null said:

Using SoftTuner

I installed SoftTuner too have a look and it appears there's even newer fw.

It says the update is the mysterious: "better handup stop".

Now, should I update with this?

https://imgur.com/0RFkxQ3

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Aztek