My other passion besides EUC's

[Paulo Mesquita]

It's an older passion, alike yours truly, but it's always fun to read about.

So here goes:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/128489117305921/permalink/1853757701445712/

[Paulo Mesquita]

This was the 1st time I did H-alpha imaging with line filters on my astrophotography setup in what we astronomers call...backyard astronomy...

it's the Horsehead Nebula and the Flame Nebula inside the Orion Constellation

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Paulo Mesquita

[Paulo Mesquita]

The Rosette Nebula, 6.000 light years away, photographed by me with H-Alpha, Oxygen III and Sulphur II filters.

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Paulo Mesquita

[Tawpie]

wow. Those are spectacular pictures. I'm pretty sure I can't see the Rosette Nebula with my little 8" hobby scope (and old eyes, very bummed not to have discovered backyard star gazing while my eyes were still good). I still view by pushing and pulling the dob so I'm excited to see anything at all honestly. Lots of fuzzy snowballs, but I have 'gotten' a few nebulae with the 13mm. Nothing like those pics though. Bravo.

[.....]

I'm pretty good at seeing a lot of black with my 8" dob. I'm noticing my odds dont change when I remove the dust cap either. Amazing pictures like this are much easier to see on the computer. Excellent images, thanks for showing me wtf I AINT doing right!

From what I understand, euc's are already illegal on that yonder left star ober dere... I routinely stop by there on my way home. They have the best fried pickles! Last time on my way thru, I was on the mten and it began to dance, bumped into a uranium tanker and the tanker floated off. I think something went wrong with the antigravity parking brakes. I dunno. I paid for my pickle and chips and gtfo of there. Im pretty sure they banned euc's and are looking for me now. I THINK the tanker went the other direction, as I didnt see it on my way back thru to Earth, from Shanesplanet. Tbh, Im usually looking at porn mags and jamming to the radio while en route. I guess I should look out the window more often. Earth's music has kinda gone to s**t lately, so I've been listening to them listen to the listeners that listen to the people who listen to earthlings that are listening. Intersting for sure. If you do see a uranium tanker float by, don't be alarmed, it wasnt me and we'll all be vaporized soon enough.. I'd suggest not looking up and riding the euc as often as you can..

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Paulo Mesquita]

13 hours ago, Tawpie said:

wow. Those are spectacular pictures. I'm pretty sure I can't see the Rosette Nebula with my little 8" hobby scope (and old eyes, very bummed not to have discovered backyard star gazing while my eyes were still good). I still view by pushing and pulling the dob so I'm excited to see anything at all honestly. Lots of fuzzy snowballs, but I have 'gotten' a few nebulae with the 13mm. Nothing like those pics though. Bravo.

with an 8" dob both of you @ShanesPlanet and @Tawpie can see the nebula. You need to be ina very dark sky, with a  DMG/OMEGA or a Lumicon Deep Sky narrowband filter. And assuming your dobs are F5 you need a 25mm/30mm eyepiece with a FOV of 70º to 82º, so that your eye's exit pupil works around 5mm to 5,5mm dilation (you can get that after being about 30 minutes in total darkness. I MEAN TOTAL! If your cell phone lights up...then another 30 minutes....

25mm ep x f5 dob = 5mm exit pupil

30mm ep x f5 dob = 6mm exit pupil

bear in mind that the peripheral cones (the ones that capture in B&W) of your eye are the ones that will capture any nebula or galaxy, since these objects are outside the human color spectrum. So you don't look directly at the object when peeking through the 25mm EP on your dob, You look at 9 o'clock or 3 o'clock from the object. This way, while not directly looking at it your peripheral b6w cones "start seeing the DS Object a lot clearer...

[Tawpie]

I'll give it a try. I do have a longer EP, don't know if it's 25mm or not. The scope is located in a rare-in-the-US dark sky region so I have as good a chance as any! No narrowband filter though, a 'nebula' filter and I think I bought an O2 as well but don't remember exactly. Next time I'm up there I'll have to get the details on what I have. My main issue has been I need a new mount or perhaps the whole spider for my secondary as the existing one is super cheap. And my focuser leaves lots to be desired. But it's worth a peek anyway—my hopes are always low when I'm out, and there's always M13 to stare at all night!

[Paulo Mesquita]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

I'll give it a try. I do have a longer EP, don't know if it's 25mm or not. The scope is located in a rare-in-the-US dark sky region so I have as good a chance as any! No narrowband filter though, a 'nebula' filter and I think I bought an O2 as well but don't remember exactly. Next time I'm up there I'll have to get the details on what I have. My main issue has been I need a new mount or perhaps the whole spider for my secondary as the existing one is super cheap. And my focuser leaves lots to be desired. But it's worth a peek anyway—my hopes are always low when I'm out, and there's always M13 to stare at all night!

 @Tawpiesend me a pic, or more pics of your equipment. dob specs will help too and the filter and Eyepieces you have. The fact that you are already under a very dark sky is a HUGE advantage and you wont need filters at all. Just the right eyepiece (EP) with the right focal mm so that your eye's exit pupil is within the 5mm to 5,5mm 

Important questions:

1) Have you ever collimator your dob? with a laser collimator? it takes 2 minutes to collimate your secondary and primary mirrors on your dob.

2) How old are your mirrors? If they are old and dusty, do you know how to clean them? This is very important!!! no rubbing cloths on them!! They are supposed to me dipped in distilled water, massaged with very soft cotton balls (like you're tickling an ant) and then dried up vertically with a cold air blow-dryer (wife's will do).

@ShanesPlanet you can send me pics of your gear too...

Edited March 18, 2021 by Paulo Mesquita

[Paulo Mesquita]

The Leo Constellation Triplet. Three galaxies... 30 Million light years away. What you're looking at is what was there...when there were no humans yet alive and the dinosaurs roamed the earth...

[Tawpie]

Will do. Should be heading up there in the next couple of weeks.

I always collimate with a laser first, then fine tune via star collimation. Otherwise even the moon is a blurry snowball (not really!!). The scope+mirror are hand-me-downs, but the primary was resilvered oh, 4 years ago? I "clean" it with canned air, so far nothing has touched its surface. I know the secondary isn't nearly as important but the adjustments are all worn out so it has become a bend-to-adjust affair to get the optical axis centered on the primary. The whole scope is moved indoors after each viewing and I keep a dust cover on it (ok, it sits on its end with a plastic grocery bag on the open end), so far it's been really dust free. The moving is what necessitates recollimation, I've gotten reasonably quick at it now that I figured out which way the dot or dark spot moves.

Anyway, I'll send pics when I have it out again.

[Paulo Mesquita]

40 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Will do. Should be heading up there in the next couple of weeks.

I always collimate with a laser first, then fine tune via star collimation. Otherwise even the moon is a blurry snowball (not really!!). The scope+mirror are hand-me-downs, but the primary was resilvered oh, 4 years ago? I "clean" it with canned air, so far nothing has touched its surface. I know the secondary isn't nearly as important but the adjustments are all worn out so it has become a bend-to-adjust affair to get the optical axis centered on the primary. The whole scope is moved indoors after each viewing and I keep a dust cover on it (ok, it sits on its end with a plastic grocery bag on the open end), so far it's been really dust free. The moving is what necessitates recollimation, I've gotten reasonably quick at it now that I figured out which way the dot or dark spot moves.

Anyway, I'll send pics when I have it out again.

OK great. Do that so I can check on your gear

[Tawpie]

New target for you @Paulo Mesquita PNV J23244760+6111140, new nova in Cassiopeia!

[Paulo Mesquita]

Haha! ... I don't do novas. Only galaxies, nebulas and star clusters 😁😁😁

[Tawpie]

Ok, finally have pics of the hobby scope... the OTA is a standard Meade 8” with the stock (very bad) focuser. I think it’s a 1000mm focal length but don’t know. Might be 1200mm. I prefer the laser pointer to the red target thing but they both are mounted so they both get used. No finder scope because the laser is preferred but my finder was an Orion 9x50mm and now I use it for birds. It’s awkward since it’s a 90 degree, but it’s a pretty good monocular. The mount is homemade and actually works really well.

The mirror was resilvered when I received the scope, it has been blown off with canned air once and hasn’t seen any liquid or ant tickling. I also dabbled in film photography and now I don’t like anything touching my optics if at all possible. I make an exception for the spectacles, but not as often as I should... and I wonder why I don’t see so good no more.

Eyepieces are the Meade set that probably came with the OTA (the whole thing is a handmedown from a friend). The expensive pelican case is for the Televue... it’s basically the only EP I use even though my focuser can’t quite hold it. The thing weighs a ton and the focuser slips. Filter is an O3. There’s a Barlow too, but I never use that... FOV is too tiny.

anyway, it’s fun for stepping around on warm summer nights—if I wasn’t blowing all my money on these goofy wheels I’d probably have an equatorial platform and a decent focuser but such is the way of first world problems.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Tawpie

[Paulo Mesquita]

@Tawpie your eyepieces are too good for your telescope. The meade newtonians don't have good mirrors and I'm glad you remirrored it.

If it's a an 8" newt/dob with a 1000mm focal length, then it's a F5 telescope

If it's a an 8" newt/dob with a 1200mm focal length, then it's a F6 telescope

And you got all ep's wrong...sorry to say:

1) your 10mm Ethos is more valuable than the dob.

2)The ethos has too many glass elements for a planetary eyepiece. And 10mm with that dob is not even for planets, due to wrong magnification range. Planets need the less glass possible on an eyepiece. The ethos has quite a few glass elements (7 or more) and that cuts a lot of light. Besides that the Ethos has a FOV of 100º which is totally unnecessary  for planetary viewing.

3) The Series 4000 Meade 9.7mm Plossl you have (probably the original Japan one - excellent EP) is 10 times better to view details on a planet or moon than the Ethos,,,but not the right magnification, like the ethos

I had a few Ethos and quickly figured out my mistake. The Ethos range is a Rolls Royce. in the high magnification EP's (planets) it's loike using this Rolls Royce on an all terrain course. Not good.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PAY ATENTION TO THIS TELEVUE CHART, IN PARTICULAR TO THE COLUMS "E/G" and "AF". - Columns 5 and 6

Tele Vue Optics: Tele Vue Eyepiece Specifications

E  stands for glass elements and G stands for Groups of elements (some glass elements inside the EP are glued/stacked in groups). 

AF stands for Apparent  Field of View. Your ethos, for example is 100º of AFOV. Which is literally ridiculous since the human eye can actually grab a FOV of around 68º to 70º. The Nagler 82ºAFOV EP's and Explore Scientific (Nagler clone) 82º AFOV are actually acceptable but only because being of a slightly wider AFOV than the human eye, they create a nice "space walk effect" when one peeks through them. We roll our eye in delight with a view so wide and full of star...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ideal EP set with your newt/dob is built up with three EP's:

- One for deep sky (95% of the observation) where your exit pupil should be between 5mm and 5.5mm. This is where you make the best of your Deep Space and most used EP. (younger guys can work up to 7mm of exit pupil). Thois EP is the one that can have the higher group of glass elements. ideally 6 elements, but can have more

- One mid range EP for star clusters and, a full moon view and the occasional comet. Use 2% of the time and it's the less important EP.

- One High magnification EP for planets and high moon details (craters with meteor hits in the center)

THE PERFECT RELATION BETWEEN THE 3 EP SET IS IF FROM THE LOWEST MAGNIFICATION TO THE HIGHEST, YOU CHOOSE EPS' THAT ARE VERY CLOSE TO DOUBLING THE PREVIOUS MAGNIFICATION ONE (i.e. - 30MM FOR DEEP SPACE + 16MM FOR CLUSTERS, FULL MOON DISK AND COMETS  + 8MM FOR PANETARY.)

Now the rule of thumb is composed of 3 laws:

Law One: do the math on the exit pupil. 

A) for deep space your exit pupil, in order to grab the most tenuous details in the dark. Beed to be of 5mm or 5.5mm max. How do you do that? Simple: Divide the EP mm by the telescope F-ratio (I.E. - 30mm EP/ f5 telescope = 6mm of exit pupil for your eye... a bit too much for anyone above 40/45 years of age)

B) Apply the same rule for your mid size EP 

C) for the planetary EP you need the exit pupil to be above 1mm. Why? Under 1mm you see more of the fat in your eye waltzing around like little worms ...and less of the planet. Not good at all.

Law Two: Field of View for each EP. 

A) As I mentioned before, the quantity of glass elements on an EP should me adequate to the magnification power. This, due to the EP's on the market, has always a proper a direct relation with the AFOV of each EP series. If you look at the Televue chart above you'll see that for the Ethos, Delos and Delite (replacement of the older Radian EP's) there aren't and numbers for the E/G glass elements and groups information. Why? It's counterproductive in the sales/marketing point of view. Astronomers that are well informed don't buy (sorry mate) Ethos for high magnification or EP's with too many elements both for DSO and planetary (even worse) . And there are no Ethos above 21mm...so they don't even work for DSO (Deep Sky Observation)

B) For a DSO EP (24m  to 40 mm) you can choose an EP between 68º (human FOV) V and 82º of AFOV (Space walk). But choosing  the EP with less glass elements only benefits you.

Look at the Televue chart above again. the Panoptic 68º series has E/G 6/4...and so has the 31mm 82º AFOV Nagler (the queen of DSO ). These are clearly the two best Televue series for DSO. For some reason the 26mm Nagler doesn't show on the chart and it's a hell of an EP. Maybe it's discontinued.

C) for a mid range EP you can perfectly go with the 19mm Panoptic (the Panoptic series along with the Nagler are the best AND REALLY USEFUL  series Televue has ever produced.

D) For planetary imaging you need two register that the less glass....the better. You're looking at a planet or a moon close up detail. SO WIDE FOV IS WORTHLESS!!! you can work with 45º or 50º...it's just a planet you're looking at!!! Less glass equals more detail and light!!! Just be aware of the Exit pupil being over 1mm...otherwise...worms will dance when you peek through the EP.

Law Three: Magnification. 

A) For DSO and 95 % of sky objects, as I mentioned above, what you need is a 5 or 5.5mm exit pupil. Why? if you go by the rules and stay in the dark for over 30minutes, without any idiot around you switching on a light or his smartphone, Your eye pupil will dilate (if you're over 40/45 years) to 5mm or even 5,5mm. This will allow the peripheral cones of your eye (the ones that capture black and white) to be at their max power. And these peripheral B&W cones are the ones that will see the DSO objects, sinced their color range is invisible to the human eye. 

So magnification doesn't matter here.

DEEP SPACE AND MOST IMPORTANT EP

If your newt/dob is a 200m/1000 F5 - telescope you'll need and EP between 25mm (5mm exit pupil) and 27,5mm (5.5mm exit pupil). now there's no 25mm or 27.5mm EP with 82º of AFOV (which is quite nice for the space walk view) but there is the 27mm Panoptic which has the minimum acceptable AFOV for DSO = 68º.

The ideal choices for your DSO observation would be, in order of importance:

1) the 26mm millimeter Nagler that is discontinued. It's a Type 5 Nagler so (see chart) it's a 6/4 E/G

2) the 24mm 82º Explore Scientific (Nagler clone and much cheaper). I've had all of the naglers and ES 82º EP's and the clone is as good as ther nagler, wih an advantage: waterproof....no fungus....

here: Explore Scientific 82° Series Waterproof Eyepieces — Tagged "Series: 82°, Focal Length: 3. 24mm - 30mm" — Explore Scientific LLC (explorescientificusa.com)

3) The 27mm 68º AFOV Panoptic from Televue

4) The ES 68º AFOV 24mm and 28mm from Explore scientific. They are the Panoptic rival...but cheaper and equal quality.

Explore Scientific 68° Series Waterproof Eyepieces — Tagged "Focal Length: 3. 24mm - 30mm" — Explore Scientific LLC (explorescientificusa.com)

-----

If your newt/dob is a 200m/1200 F6 telescope you'll need and EP between 25mm (5mm exit pupil) and 27,5mm (5.5mm exit pupil). now there's no 25mm or 27.5mm EP with 82º of AFOV (which is quite nice for the space walk view) but there is the 27mm Panoptic which has the minimum acceptable AFOV for DSO = 68º.

Here you only have two choices:

A ) 31mm Nagler - 82ª - 5.16mm of exit Pupil - EXPENSIVE AND 1 KG 

B ) 30mm Explore Scientific - 82º - 5mm of exit Pupil - CHEAPER AND 1KG 

DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE WEIGHT - YOU JUST NEED TO STICK WITH VELCRO SOME METAL WEIGHTS ON THE BASE OF YOUR DOB AND IT WILL BALANCE NICELY WITH THESE EP'S.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

MID RANGE AND LESS IMPORTANT EP

Here you just need to choose around the double magnification of the above choice. So if your above choice was 30mm, then get something around 15mm (give or take a mm). If your choice was 26mm...choose around 13mm. What you need to stick to is the AFOV. Again choose from 68º to 82º. At mid range I prefer in the whereabouts of 68º to 70º of AFOV... because...less glass again.

------------------------------------------------------------------

HIGH POWER PLANETARY EP AND SECOND IMPORTANT

Here the choice is simple too:

1) if you don't live in a very high altitude location (like the Rocky Mountains)you won't get a good image above 160x to 190x magnification due to the earth's atmosphere thickness. 

2) you need a plossl or a super plossl with a AFOV between 45º and 60º...WITH THE LESS GLASS ELEMENTS POSSIBLE!!! I love the very hard to find Meade 5000 HD60 for planetary super plossls.

If your telescope a an 8" with a 1000mm focal length  F5  the ideal would be A 6MM EYEPIECE. NO MORE NO LESS. It will give you a magnification of 166x and a 1.20mm exit pupil...no worms

If your telescope a an 8" with a 1200mm focal length  F6  the ideal would be A 7MM EYEPIECE. NO MORE NO LESS. It will give you a magnification of 171x and a 1.16mm exit pupil...no worms.

SO FOR PLANETARY TRY AND FIND A PLOSSL OR A 60º SUPER PLOSSL THAT IS BETWEEN 6MM AND 7MM and you'll be fine with either F ratios (F5 or F6). If it's an f5 newt/dob a 7mm EP will give a slightly less mag, of it's an f6 newt/dob a 6mm EP will give a bit stronger mag (200x ...a bit risky and an exit pupil of 1mm exactly...borderline worms).

FINAL NOTES:

1) Sell your EP's. they are all wrong for your newt/dob. With the money (particularly the Ethos money) you can buy the right set. Tri to buy other brands than Televue. You'll save a lot.

2) ditch the barlow. Barlows are shit and again...the glasspath becomes excessive....TOO MUCH GLASS  WITH EP + BARLOW

3) Your Oxigen III filter is useless. If you want to see the majority of the DSO's better buy a 2" DMG/Omega NPB narrowband filter. ( I say 2" because if you go for the 26mm discontinued Nagler or the 30mm  82º explore scientific ...they are 2" EP's) it's the best narrowband filter for mild light polluted skies and the majority of H-alpha nebulas just stick out.

It's considered the best observation filter for the majority of DSO's since they are are almost all H-alpha:

It's this filter:

Dgm Optics - Npb Nebula Filter (npbfilters.com)

4) measure the distance from your primary mirror to the secondary mirror and then from this one to the focuser and you'll find out if the  newt/dob is 1200mm f6 or 1000m F5.

I told you all I've learned in the past 13 years. I had over 100 EPs, over 100 telescopes, over 50 mounts, hundreds of filters, and so on...

Sorry to give you the bad news about your EP set, but the glass is half full: you have a useless ethos that is more expensive than a used 26mm Nagler or a 30mm Explore Scientific.

I'm just putting @ShanesPlanet here so that I make him read this very long and boring post just to find out why I mentioned him 

[Tawpie]

Haha, yeah. I knew the Televue was the most valuable part of the setup by far (except of course the mount, built by yours truly). I do love it for scanning around and the wide FOV is spectacular for sure so it’ll be difficult to part with. 82 degrees isn’t that huge of a reduction though.

I haven’t been wanting planetary EPs because of the manual mount, and frankly do enjoy the hunt for DSOs more. When I do peek at Mars or Saturn they take a while to transit the Ethos which is handy... even though they’re really tiny and not at all impressive—they are recognizable but featureless. I’m up near the 47th parallel so the planets tend to hang pretty low in the not-great seeing zone so I don’t think super high mag is too beneficial. Altitude is 580m, so I’m not very high up either. But it is dark.

Thanks for the great exit pupil info, especially the worms part. I understood the part about getting everything to match up but just figured the splotches were old eyes. Turns out they’re fat in the old eyes!?

I’ll start lurking on cloudynights again for your recommended EPs, and to get an idea what the Televue might bring. Knowing that Explore Scientific is a high quality EP is very valuable info and I’m grateful to you for that.

First though, I must determine the focal length. And budget for a focuser that’ll hold a kg cuz the one on that OTA ain’t it (the mount allows me to slide the OTA around the balance point so I don’t need counterweights, that’s what the radio knobs are for). And I should probably go to 2” as long as I’m shopping both EPs and a focuser.

Or I should keep saving up for an off-road/snow wheel and have my fun finding the occasional DSO in the OMG 100 degree spacewalk. I have found several, but don’t keep a log so the victory is fleeting.

Thanks @Paulo Mesquita. I have to print your post else it’ll get lost in the billions upon billions...

[Paulo Mesquita]

When you get an 82º 25mm or 30mm EP 3 things will happen @Tawpie:

1) you will see 10 times more DSOs. 

2) you will see them better

3) your Ethos will become totally useless. 😁

When you get a 6mm or 7mm planetary EP you see a lot more details on Jupiter and Saturn. And even, maybe, Mars. 

If your observation doesn't improve with these EPs, that will mean that your mirrors are goners. It will be time to buy a cheap Orion or Skywatcher Dob. You'd live the Orion Push To Intelliscope Dob. And if your sky is dark, I'd go for a 12" Orion Truss Dob with Intelliscope. Not the expensive and heavy GOTO one!!!

Btw, Astrmart USA is much safer to buy and sell your ASTRO gear. You pay very little and get great stuff and more securely. I did over 600 buys and sales there and I only did half a dozen at Cloudy Nights. Too many scams on CN. 

Just my $0.02

[Paulo Mesquita]

One more tip:the best newt mirrors in the world are:

USA: Zambutto some equip the famous Obsession USA telescopes 

UK: Orion Optics UK (not Orion USA) 

[.....]

If I get a list/pic of my meager collection, would you care to point me in the direction of how to enjoy them and what to expect? They have been collecting dust for a while and I do live in a fairly dark area. Altho my skies are pretty narrow out here in the mountains.

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

1) you will see 10 times more DSOs

Dang @Paulo Mesquita, don’t keep tempting me. I am by nature “thrifty” (aka an effing tightwad) and can only stand one high velocity leak in my wallet at a time before I get the shakes and my eyes start that wild flicking back and forth that frightens the children so 😏. But maybe the Ethos will pay for the focuser (what should I look at for that if you don’t mind?) and a good chunk of the 82.

Also, I appreciate the advice on Astromart vs cloudynights, one never knows.

[Paulo Mesquita]

7 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

If I get a list/pic of my meager collection, would you care to point me in the direction of how to enjoy them and what to expect? They have been collecting dust for a while and I do live in a fairly dark area. Altho my skies are pretty narrow out here in the mountains.

Of course I'll help you out @ShanesPlanet. Let me know what you have. Preferably with pics of everything 

[Paulo Mesquita]

4 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Dang @Paulo Mesquita, don’t keep tempting me. I am by nature “thrifty” (aka an effing tightwad) and can only stand one high velocity leak in my wallet at a time before I get the shakes and my eyes start that wild flicking back and forth that frightens the children so 😏. But maybe the Ethos will pay for the focuser (what should I look at for that if you don’t mind?) and a good chunk of the 82.

Also, I appreciate the advice on Astromart vs cloudynights, one never knows.

Sorry tk disappoint you. Spending money on the focuser will only get you into a sea of trouble and frustration. The Meade newts area famous for being very bat to have focuser replacements. You'll spend a fortune on a Moonlite or Feathertouch and if wrong improve your viewing. And you just might never get the optic train right. 

Each of these focusers cost the same as a new 8" dob.... 😁

Just now, Paulo Mesquita said:

Sorry tk disappoint you. Spending money on the focuser will only get you into a sea of trouble and frustration. The Meade newts area famous for being very bat to have focuser replacements. You'll spend a fortune on a Moonlite or Feathertouch and if wrong improve your viewing. And you just might never get the optic train right. 

Each of these focusers cost the same as a new 8" dob.... 😁

... With a double speed focuser already mounted... 😁

[Tawpie]

ah. new scope.

or new wheel.

or different scope.

or new wheel.

or same scope for a while

and new wheel.

 

Jury is in. Add telescope porn to my daily surfing, continue to get Nellie (16XS is called Nellie) and self out on trails so we can 'rip-em' (like a turtle), hope there's a fabulous 2021 wheel—and wait until the third or fourth batch. Or cave totally and get an S18. And a better scope. I hate that you said it'd be 10x better, cuz the mishmash I have now is a whole lot of fun and if all it takes is cash to make it way better... that, as I mentioned, goes against my nature.

(wow, last time I paid for Astromart was in '13!)

[Paulo Mesquita]

36 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

wow, last time I paid for Astromart was in '13!)

What I'm saying is:"don't spend money on that meade. A good EP set is more important than the telescope. Always! And meade doesnt have good newts. Never had. 

Get this in 8",10" or12":

https://www.telescope.com/mobileProduct/Orion-SkyQuest-XT8i-IntelliScope-Dobsonian-Telescope/102012.uts

[francisbaud]

Very nice pictures in that thread. That reminded me that I wanted to spend some time looking at galaxies images, so I registered to a Facebook group about astrophotography.